The nesscliffe thing is a there and back and then an up? And that gets on the list?
To jump in and defend nesscliffe grades I went to Nesscliffe 2 days ago and the 8B would be insane to do, it took me the best part of a session to do the font 7C finish alone which is actually harder when climbed from the traverse as you join it from indirect so is 7C+, I couldn't one of the individual moves on Northumberland Little (the traverse in reverse) and only just managed Little Northumberland. linking all these together would be seriously hard. feels comparable to doing something like staminaboys, maybe smidge easier. would be 8c/+ as a route but can't say for sure after just 1 session.
a local's training link
You do raise a very good point, this is by no means an independent "pure" line. It does beg the question, where should the line be drawn? I'm sure you could argue about some of things on the list being hard just for the sake of making it hard, some bits at the Tor and Parisellas (and that mega link on the Business boulder?)
Think the lines drawn when you traverse one way then reverse it.
If retracing your steps is fair game, then I did my first 8A years ago when I did the Red Wall traverse at Trowbarrow 6 times back to back (just to be clear, I have no intention of claiming this as it's clearly not what bouldering grades are for).
It does beg the question, where should the line be drawn?
If forced lines and link ups are fair game, then why is going back over the same ground not allowed?Obviously shitty link ups aren't aesthetic but the list isn't about quality, it's about the relentless pursuit of enumerating how hard people have climbed.
Quote from: remus on November 20, 2020, 10:11:25 amIf forced lines and link ups are fair game, then why is going back over the same ground not allowed?Obviously shitty link ups aren't aesthetic but the list isn't about quality, it's about the relentless pursuit of enumerating how hard people have climbed.They shouldn't be allowed for the same reason that climbing Raindogs, then downclimbing cleanly to the 3rd bolt shouldn't get anyone recognition for climbing 8c+. i.e. an achievement noteworthy for its arbitrariness, in an already arbitrary pastime.And if there and back, why not there and back and there again, (call it Sisyphus, obvs)
...the list isn't about quality, it's about the relentless pursuit of enumerating how hard people have climbed.
I think what rankles is that a lot of boulder problems are kinda weird 'lines' anyway (e.g. you're sitting in the Ben's roof knee bar, why would you logically go up keen roof from there?)
If forced lines and link ups are fair game, then why is going back over the same ground not allowed?
Quote from: remus on November 20, 2020, 10:11:25 am...the list isn't about quality, it's about the relentless pursuit of enumerating how hard people have climbed.This isn't quite correct is it though. There's limits - traverses don't get on the sport list for example.
Plus if going up and down are genuine problems then JackPal will have a 8C+ In Cave by this time next week and we can’t have that.
Remus has recently logged "Warm up wall eliminate reverse" at broomsgrove so he may well be biased...
Just training isn’t it that shizzle. Most the better stuff at Cave / Tor whilst not being pure high quality bouldering is at least logical. Plus if going up and down are genuine problems then JackPal will have a 8C+ In Cave by this time next week and we can’t have that.