[Luke Owens]

I've got a new 7b project, I've climbed this grade before but the style of this one is not what I'm used to. No really hard moves but ~15 meters without a real rest, sustained!

I linked it from the floor to a finger jug (pumpy "rest") about 4 meters up, 6 moves. Then rested on the rope and linked from there for ~10 moves to the final dyno. Once latched the route is jugs to the belay.

It's a route that if I was a lot fitter I could probably on-sight as I worked and did all the moves in isolation first go.

So my question, as this is a fitness/PE issue do I (As well as the feet on fingerboard stuff I'm doing):

a. Keep trying to link sections/start redpointing and get fit on the route?
b. Go around ticking multiple easier routes to get fit, then come back to my project?

I guess I'm trying to avoid an all out siege...

I'm aware of this thread on redpoint tactics:
http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?topic=17748.0

Just looking for something a little more specific.

Cheers

[cheque]

Not sure what the advantage of option b would be if you've already done all the moves. I'd just keep working on it 'til you do it.

[Doylo]

I've got a new 7b project, I've climbed this grade before but the style of this one is not what I'm used to. No really hard moves but ~15 meters without a real rest, sustained!

I linked it from the floor to a finger jug (pumpy "rest") about 4 meters up, 6 moves. Then rested on the rope and linked from there for ~10 moves to the final dyno. Once latched the route is jugs to the belay.

It's a route that if I was a lot fitter I could probably on-sight as I worked and did all the moves in isolation first go.

So my question, as this is a fitness/PE issue do I (As well as the feet on fingerboard stuff I'm doing):

a. Keep trying to link sections/start redpointing and get fit on the route?
b. Go around ticking multiple easier routes to get fit, then come back to my project?

I guess I'm trying to avoid an all out siege...

I'm aware of this thread on redpoint tactics:
http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?topic=17748.0

Just looking for something a little more specific.

Cheers

You've done it in massive overlaps so definitely just keep redpointing. And when your're not there keep doing pumpy routes. Which route is it?

[Teaboy]

If its local and you can get be belayers use it to train on. Start taking a tactical rest a couple of bolts up and then try and linking from there to the top.

[Luke Owens]

Not sure what the advantage of option b would be if you've already done all the moves. I'd just keep working on it 'til you do it.

I usually go for redpoint straight away once I've done all the moves but this route is more sustained than anything I've ever done.

Just wondered what peoples thoughts were on whether it would be more beneficial to go around doing other stuff getting fit. Then come back to the project fitter and possibly have an easier time redpointing it.

You've done it in massive overlaps so definitely just keep redpointing. And when you're not there keep doing pumpy routes. Which route is it?

Cheers, I guess the overlaps I did were pretty substantial. The route is Walking With Barrance at Dinbren. Awesome route!

[Doylo]

Not sure what the advantage of option b would be if you've already done all the moves. I'd just keep working on it 'til you do it.

I usually go for redpoint straight away once I've done all the moves but this route is more sustained than anything I've ever done.

Just wondered what peoples thoughts were on whether it would be more beneficial to go around doing other stuff getting fit. Then come back to the project fitter and possibly have an easier time redpointing it.

You've done it in massive overlaps so definitely just keep redpointing. And when you're not there keep doing pumpy routes. Which route is it?

Cheers, I guess the overlaps I did were pretty substantial. The route is Walking With Barrance at Dinbren. Awesome route!

Psyche from the ground counts for a lot too.  You're not going to go there every climbing day so just make sure you get a pump when at other crags. Sounds like you're pretty close. Ty Newydd tomorrow?

[SA Chris]

Surely if you rested on the rope at the "rest" it's just a case of getting better at recovering there, getting a bit more efficient on the top section / getting it wired / milking it for any beta you can and then going for the redpoints?

[Teaboy]

The route is Walking With Barrance at Dinbren. Awesome route!

It is, better and harder than I Punched Judy First (which may suit you better if you've not done it).  Once you've got knackered trying that there's plenty of similar stuff nearby to TR as a trainng exercise to get fit and finish off your session.

[Luke Owens]

Psyche from the ground counts for a lot too.  You're not going to go there every climbing day so just make sure you get a pump when at other crags. Sounds like you're pretty close. Ty Newydd tomorrow?

Out this eve locally bouldering then out Saturday evening as I'm down Colwyn Bay anyway. Psyched for Ty Newydd if you're around?

Surely if you rested on the rope at the "rest" it's just a case of getting better at recovering there, getting a bit more efficient on the top section / getting it wired / milking it for any beta you can and then going for the redpoints?

Yeah, the recovery there is an issue. It is an obvious rest spot but I don't seem to be able to get anything back on it. Maybe a quick couple of shakes then I'd have to crack on.

I'm possibly over thinking the whole thing and I'll probably not get as pumped as I think I'm going to with a bit of luck!

It is, better and harder than I Punched Judy First (which may suit you better if you've not done it).  Once you've got knackered trying that there's plenty of similar stuff nearby to TR as a trainng exercise to get fit and finish off your session.

Really? Barrance get's 7b and IPJF get's 7b+?

IPJF was next on my list after Barrance. Never tried it!

All I've done in the 7's on the left wing is Technicolour, Orgasmatron (Aided start) & Hot Stuff.

Any recommendations would be appreciated. It's my local crag, 15 minutes from my house, projects galore!

[andy popp]

I was under the impression* that WWB lost something in the middle a few years ago making it a touch harder? I did it the session after I did IPJF and thought they were the same grade - IPJF is probably a bit more bouldery.

* from someone who'd done it several times over the years.

[Doylo]

Psyche from the ground counts for a lot too.  You're not going to go there every climbing day so just make sure you get a pump when at other crags. Sounds like you're pretty close. Ty Newydd tomorrow?

Can't do sat. Done most the 7's but not done Extreme Ways which looks like one of the best. Bandits is obviously a classic too.

[andy popp]

date=1366882914]

All I've done in the 7's on the left wing is Technicolour, Orgasmatron (Aided start) & Hot Stuff.

Any recommendations would be appreciated. It's my local crag, 15 minutes from my house, projects galore!

I thought Fire and Ice were both really good.

[Ally Smith]

I agree with the previous comments; if you've done the route in such big sections it's time to get redpointing. You shouldn't be too far off doing it. Sounds like your foot-on-campusing sessions have done you some good. Keep these ticking over to keep the volume up whilst you're having redpoints and I think you should progress to 7b+ with ease!

Also agree with Andy's comments; i did WWB late last year and thought it fairly cheeky for 7b. Top of the grade even? Fire & Ice are other good routes to do.

I'm keen to open an account at Dinbren this year. Are you heading out again next week?

[IanP]

date=1366882914]
I thought Fire and Ice were both really good.

Fire and Ice are both worthwhile with the righthand one (Fire?) being the better imo.   IPJF is very good and probably at the low end of 7b+ with not a great difference in difficulty compared to WWB though it is steeper and more powerful style of climbing.   Extreme Ways is great, quite a few people seem to think its soft for 7c and may be 7b+ though I didn't find it easy and ended up skipping a clip on the final headwall giving an bit of extra excitement.

[Doylo]

I'm keen to open an account at Dinbren this year. Are you heading out again next week?

I could be keen for a evening hit

[Teaboy]

IPJF was next on my list after Barrance. Never tried it!

All I've done in the 7's on the left wing is Technicolour, Orgasmatron (Aided start) & Hot Stuff.

Any recommendations would be appreciated. It's my local crag, 15 minutes from my house, projects galore!

Well you've done the worst of the 7s so that's good! Looking on the UKC database the stars assigned there look correct except Baby Crusher is better (and easier, theme developing here!) than Fat Boys. If you do get on Extreme Ways do the E3 crack start rather than the right hand start unless you share Big Lee's wingspan, it's still the crux!

[Luke Owens]

I agree with the previous comments; if you've done the route in such big sections it's time to get redpointing. You shouldn't be too far off doing it. Sounds like your foot-on-campusing sessions have done you some good. Keep these ticking over to keep the volume up whilst you're having redpoints and I think you should progress to 7b+ with ease!

Also agree with Andy's comments; i did WWB late last year and thought it fairly cheeky for 7b. Top of the grade even? Fire & Ice are other good routes to do.

I'm keen to open an account at Dinbren this year. Are you heading out again next week?

I would be really happy to progress to 7b+ soon, it feels within reach now which is great.

I'll be out at Dinbren next week for sure, good to see people psyched for the place!

Well you've done the worst of the 7s so that's good! Looking on the UKC database the stars assigned there look correct except Baby Crusher is better (and easier, theme developing here!) than Fat Boys. If you do get on Extreme Ways do the E3 crack start rather than the right hand start unless you share Big Lee's wingspan, it's still the crux!

I am keen to try Baby Crusher at some point in view of eventually doing Dyperspace as a first 7c but I didn't know if BC was anygood.

I think i'll leave Extreme Ways for awhile until i've ticked a few other 7b+'s, i've heard it's great though!

[IanP]

If you do get on Extreme Ways do the E3 crack start rather than the right hand start unless you share Big Lee's wingspan, it's still the crux!

Three of us of varying degrees of tallness from 5'7'' to 6' did the rh start without any big spans required,  it feels a bit unlikely on first acquaintance but a bit of heel / toe trickery lets you use the sloping crimps to make a move to the juggy holds at the top of the crack.

[Luke Owens]

Following on from the Dinbren talk. Heading there with a mate on Thursday eve if anyones keen, come along!

[thrashhard]

I've got a new 7b project, I've climbed this grade before but the style of this one is not what I'm used to. No really hard moves but ~15 meters without a real rest, sustained!

Don´t get me wrong but is this a metric system issue and you converted something wrong?
15 Meters is really short and isn´t what i would call a endurance-route. It´s more like the lenght of routes my more boulder oriented mates are always looking for because they lack of endurance.

[davej]

I'm going to start going in the next week or so on a thurs eve from chester might see you up there. Good luck with the redpoint

[Luke Owens]

Don´t get me wrong but is this a metric system issue and you converted something wrong?
15 Meters is really short and isn´t what i would call a endurance-route. It´s more like the lenght of routes my more boulder oriented mates are always looking for because they lack of endurance.

As you say "Lack of endurance" is what I have. It's a Power Enduance route.

I'm going to start going in the next week or so on a thurs eve from chester might see you up there. Good luck with the redpoint

Thanks Dave, see you up there sometime!

[krymson]

It's a route that if I was a lot fitter I could probably on-sight as I worked and did all the moves in isolation first go.

So my question, as this is a fitness/PE issue do I (As well as the feet on fingerboard stuff I'm doing):

a. Keep trying to link sections/start redpointing and get fit on the route?
b. Go around ticking multiple easier routes to get fit, then come back to my project?

I guess I'm trying to avoid an all out siege...

I'm aware of this thread on redpoint tactics:
http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?topic=17748.0

Just looking for something a little more specific.

Cheers

It depends on your goals but in general, I disagree with everyone else and think b is better for your long term climbing.

If you think there is something the route can teach you  or If you think you can send it in the next 2-3 attempts by all means have it.

Otherwise, if you look at Ondra or other good onsighters like Megos
http://rockclimbinguk.co.uk/alex-megos-hard-onsight-climbing/

Their entire focus is more on getting more experience on different types of rock, getting the engrams and fitness and training their route reading, decision making, etc., not really on projecting as much. They are focused more on achieving skills and competency, rather than concrete achievements.

Long term this approach seems to make more sense.

Of course as recreational climbers it feels damn good to nab a climb you've really fought for, and it could make for a good story at the pub

But personally I feel being able to onsight a higher grade in the first place is more badass.

[Luke Owens]

It depends on your goals but in general, I disagree with everyone else and think b is better for your long term climbing.

If you think there is something the route can teach you  or If you think you can send it in the next 2-3 attempts by all means have it.

Otherwise, if you look at Ondra or other good onsighters like Megos
http://rockclimbinguk.co.uk/alex-megos-hard-onsight-climbing/

Their entire focus is more on getting more experience on different types of rock, getting the engrams and fitness and training their route reading, decision making, etc., not really on projecting as much. They are focused more on achieving skills and competency, rather than concrete achievements.

Long term this approach seems to make more sense.

Of course as recreational climbers it feels damn good to nab a climb you've really fought for, and it could make for a good story at the pub

But personally I feel being able to onsight a higher grade in the first place is more badass.

Thanks, some great advice. I remember reading about Ondra saying he would rather go around getting fitter etc. than sieging a route for a long time. In view of going back to the route in the future and sending it quicker.

I quite like the redpointing process so I think I'll mix it up. I'm going out to do some on-sighting this eve then I'll get back on the project on Thursday. I guess this satisfies both sides of my original question.

I agree with a really good on-sight being more of an achievement!

[Sasquatch]

Be careful looking at the pros and how they view things and what they've said.  As a newer climber it can be difficult to understand what a project menas.  I've heard newbies talk about seiging a route and come to find out they worked on it for three days.  Then you've got old timers like myself who've had projects of 12-15 years.  The key is how you look at the project and how you view improvement on it. 

I've always used my two hands as a barometer.  The first hand is the number of sessions it takes me to have a real assessment of whether I can do it or not.  The second hand is how many more before I should finish it.  if I haven't after 10, go back to (b) above and get better/fitter/stronger and come back to it.  I find severely diminishing returns after 10 sessions.  Mental blocks, wrong ingrams, and lack of belief creep in and are hard to overcome.  Taking a break resets these.  Plus, I can't ever really get more than ten sessions in a season