[James Malloch]

 I've booked a trip to Chorro leaving in 2 months and after a  period with no climbing I need to get some endurance back. Hoping to get some low 7's ticked so mainly need to focus on not getting pumped.

My current plan is to do the circuit board for the first month, starting off on the easiest until I can comfortably do 3 or four laps, and them move up  a grade and do the same. This is on the Leeds wall board by the way. I can get down 4 or 5 times a week but due to finishing work at different times I think the board will be easier than arranging partners everyday. This will be combined with ten miles of running to work and the wall each time.

Then for the second month continue with the board but do routes and boulder more too. I'll also try get my beastmaker up at home. 

Does this sound okay or should I be trying to add other things or do more/less? Any comments would be appreciated.

[jwi]

Sounds OK to me, if you can try to get to a lead-wall once a week or so.  Climbing routes is different than doing circuits, and even if the latter can prepare you physically for the former, climbing on lead is different than plodding up and down on a bouldering wall.

[Sasquatch]

I've booked a trip to Chorro leaving in 2 months and after a  period with no climbing I need to get some endurance back. Hoping to get some low 7's ticked so mainly need to focus on not getting pumped.

My current plan is to do the circuit board for the first month, starting off on the easiest until I can comfortably do 3 or four laps, and them move up  a grade and do the same. This is on the Leeds wall board by the way. I can get down 4 or 5 times a week but due to finishing work at different times I think the board will be easier than arranging partners everyday. This will be combined with ten miles of running to work and the wall each time.

Then for the second month continue with the board but do routes and boulder more too. I'll also try get my beastmaker up at home. 

Does this sound okay or should I be trying to add other things or do more/less? Any comments would be appreciated.

How much do you currently run?  cause 40-50miles a week is ALOT....
Otherwise, on the climbing side, seems reasonable, but the  I don't know climbing endurance training that well.

[James Malloch]

Cheers for the replies. I've a membership at leds wall and the lad I'm going with has a city bloc membership so he's going to come and have to odd lead session so that should help.

Sasquatch, I haven't ran a lot recently but used to do loads (a few years ago now though). It will be broken up - 2 miles in the morning, 2.5 miles to the wall and then 5 home.

I'm playing it by how I feel at the moment (I walked Thurs/Fri last week because I was feeling it in my legs). I'm doing it mainly because of how far I live from the wall and I'm now car-less. I would also like to get a decent level of fitness.

Is it not adviseable to do this much?

[Baldy]

Well, as someone who rarely runs.

If I considered going from nothing to this amount of exercise I would blow up by the end of the week, and my routes session would be awful. But then again if you are fit and healthy from an aerobic point of view then you might find this a doddle.

In my opinion, never having seen the leeds wall, but having climbed on the TCA circuit board in exactly the manner you have described, I would say that you should be able to get some mad stamina going.

Before you get on the board think about what you want to achieve and then puch yourself to the max to get it. One more move and learning the difference between where you 'think' you need to let go and where you 'actually' let go seemed to help most for me.

You could try alternating the circuits with some variants.

For example:
Every third move, stop and take one hand off for 3 seconds before reaching the next hold. This will simulate the stresses of clipping and help you learn to find the optimal body position.

I reckon if you follow this plan then you should have mad stamina for easy 7s.

[mrjonathanr]

Is it not adviseable to do this much?

To me it seems like overkill, and unnecessary stress on your body. I'd concentrate effort on climbing, not running, unless you need to lose significant amounts of weight in which case it's a very good idea. Get the bus home?

I'm going to el Chorro in 4 weeks and doing 2 or 3 x quick 7 mile sessions on a treadmill weekly. Having a finger injury means I'm limited re climbing volume and this will help get me light, otherwise I wouldn't bother and would be hanging off my fingers, not strengthening my legs.

[grimer]

Beginnery question: Is it generally accepted that circuits are great training for routes and is the fact you're not pulling up much not really that big a drawback? I'm guessing so, judging by the number of 8c climbers who use them.

[James Malloch]

Baldy, the circuit variations sound good. I'll definitely mix it up a bit like that - thanks! I've only climbed to F7a up to now which was after a 2 month break due to injury and the main problem then was stamina. So I'm hoping to get proficient at that level so it's lots of endurance work mainly.

I might try drop the running a bit then, or walk to work & wall instead and just run back. I thought about the bus but as it's going from South to North Leeds it means getting more than one, and by the time I get to the bus stop that will go past my house it's only another 15 minute run home so I do that instead of waiting around for the bus. I'd like to lose about 7lbs to get down to 11 stone but it's not a priority at all.

[Davo]

Hi

Your plan sounds fairly reasonable and I have previously done something similar for a trip abroad (but without the running).

The circuits should be good but like people have mentioned it is advisable to do routes as well even if it is only for the pyschological help they provide with being above a bolt.

Cheers Dave

[Wood FT]

Beginnery question: Is it generally accepted that circuits are great training for routes and is the fact you're not pulling up much not really that big a drawback? I'm guessing so, judging by the number of 8c climbers who use them.

I think this is a valid question (is it raised is Dav Mc's book?). Surely going crab-stance session after session is just going to make you shit hot for rainbow bridge? You are how you train after all. The works' circuit board reset has a good few figure-8s on it now which helps with the upwards pulling (though I resent the fact that some cruxs can be downclimbing, maybe this is training for the hard won retreat)

[jwi]

Beginnery question: Is it generally accepted that circuits are great training for routes and is the fact you're not pulling up much not really that big a drawback? I'm guessing so, judging by the number of 8c climbers who use them.

Most 8c climbers climb quite a lot on lead as well.  Circuits are fine, but they shouldn't be the only thing on the schedule if it can be avoided, especially for boulder specialist that do the odd sport climbing trip.

[mrjonathanr]

I think this is a valid question (is it raised is Dav Mc's book?). Surely going crab-stance session after session is just going to make you shit hot for rainbow bridge?

Yes.
From a forearm point of view, your capillaries don't know your exact direction of travel.

[Wood FT]

I think this is a valid question (is it raised is Dav Mc's book?). Surely going crab-stance session after session is just going to make you shit hot for rainbow bridge?

Yes.
From a forearm point of view, your capillaries don't know your exact direction of travel.

That's very true, so I guess a result of too much sideways movement is technique malfunction.


Anyway, sorry James, took the thread off a bit there

[mrjonathanr]

I meant 'yes, DMac does refer to side vs upwards in his book'.

I don't think traversing knackers your technique, but only traversing won't mimic some movement patterns you might want to reinforce, nor inculcate the mentality for fighting long, upwards, harder moves. Physically it should be fairly effective.

[abarro81]

Bit different for muscles like shoulders and biceps if not forearms. You can do pe only going up without a rope too e.g. boulder 4x4s ... Most 8c climbers I know don't spend much time with a rope on indoors unless theyre into comps

[Nibile]

I would completely sack the running.
There was a thread on here with this topic broadly analyzed. Running decreases testosterone production - according to what I've read - and I can't see how it can be a good thing in any case. It does not help to avoid getting pumped and there are other ways even to lose some fat or weight.

[ghisino]

Beginnery question: Is it generally accepted that circuits are great training for routes and is the fact you're not pulling up much not really that big a drawback? I'm guessing so, judging by the number of 8c climbers who use them.

an ex french national team trainer had looked at this a few years ago, with some muscular fatigue tests following routes, long circuits or short circuits climbed in interval fashion.

he pointed out three differences between routes and circuits :

1) the upward movement yelds a greater "hemostatic lace" effect*
2) the movement-per-second rate is slower for an upward progression than for lateral one.
3) Clipping the rope puts even more emphasis on 1) and 2)

according to him it was enough to say that if you have the choice, a lead wall is a better choice for specific endurance.
(while the bouldering wall is better left for power/strenght and what his owh version of ARCing : 15 minutes on, "but if you're not on a true overhang and you're only pulling jugs it's worth nothing")


*homeostatic lace effect.
During an isometric effort such as holding a hold, blood circulation within the contracted muscle is severely reduced, or completely cut off (above a certain intensity), as if you were wearing an homeostatic lace.

If you hang straight armed this is limited to the forearm, if you lock off the circulation cut-off will probably start in your biceps region and will be more severe since you're probably squeezing the hold a bit harder.

[shark]

according to him it was enough to say that if you have the choice, a lead wall is a better choice for specific endurance.

Even if you have a willing belay slave a big advantage with circuits is that you can set the difficulty level appropriate to what you trying to achieve - typically either mimicking a project route or having a sequence sustained at a certain level for a defined number of moves.

[ghisino]

i forgot to mention that

1) he referred to competition climbers

2) of course he implies that one not only has a belay slave, but also a routesetting slave (ie, the coach)

but the main point is that of upwards progression, indeed when asked specifically about it the same guy was positive that doing a few boulders in a row (jumping off and running into the next one) would still be better than a mostly traversing circuit.

[RichK]

As long as they are long enough and go up , down & along then circuits are perfect for endurance IMO. 30 + move circuits will give you plenty of endurance & a little PE if they have the odd hard move in. Once your finding them ok, start linking to another circuit and so on..... Ideally they should be consistent all the way but thats sometimes difficult to achieve when your setting a circuit or using a circuit board at a wall. I quite like a bit of a hard section as it emulates routes that have a distinct crux. Throw in rests(a jug or 2) if your trip is climbing routes that have rests on (many euro routes are like this). If its pure stamina then do circuits that have no obvious rest & each move is similar in difficulty to the last.

I find I train more efficiently doing circuits as opposed to routes at a wall - less faff more efficient. Plus you choose circuits that train different things....fingers, shoulders, back, pinches, angles etc

[shark]

Hi Rich

Agree with all that. Worth mentioning that for old farts with reasonable technique circuits, systems board or even foot on campus laddering might be optimal but younger climbers might be better off on lead walls.   

[James Malloch]

Without the running I'd struggle to get to the wall in the required times unfortunately, or it would add more time on and I'd be going to bed as soon as I got home. I'm keeping an eye on my weight though to make sure I'm not wasting away.

[highrepute]

you could get a bike?

[RichK]

Hi Rich

Agree with all that. Worth mentioning that for old farts with reasonable technique circuits, systems board or even foot on campus laddering might be optimal but younger climbers might be better off on lead walls.   

Old farts  how did that happen

[James Malloch]

Just a quick update...

First session on the circuit board I could do a lap okay but for really pumped going for two in a row. Few Weeks on, today I managed 4 laps (80ish moves) without any pump and could do a few laps on the harder circuit.

Going from the step board to vertical lead climbing, I've flashed some new indoor pbs and very happy with my climbing. Dropped the running to 20 ish miles and walking the rest too.

Thanks for all the advice, i'm trying to mix it up a bit. Really psyched for Chorro now and getting outdoors. Just need the fingerboard up and I can get some strength too, if all goes to plan!