[James Malloch]

 I've booked a trip to Chorro leaving in 2 months and after a  period with no climbing I need to get some endurance back. Hoping to get some low 7's ticked so mainly need to focus on not getting pumped.

My current plan is to do the circuit board for the first month, starting off on the easiest until I can comfortably do 3 or four laps, and them move up  a grade and do the same. This is on the Leeds wall board by the way. I can get down 4 or 5 times a week but due to finishing work at different times I think the board will be easier than arranging partners everyday. This will be combined with ten miles of running to work and the wall each time.

Then for the second month continue with the board but do routes and boulder more too. I'll also try get my beastmaker up at home. 

Does this sound okay or should I be trying to add other things or do more/less? Any comments would be appreciated.

[jwi]

Sounds OK to me, if you can try to get to a lead-wall once a week or so.  Climbing routes is different than doing circuits, and even if the latter can prepare you physically for the former, climbing on lead is different than plodding up and down on a bouldering wall.

[Sasquatch]

I've booked a trip to Chorro leaving in 2 months and after a  period with no climbing I need to get some endurance back. Hoping to get some low 7's ticked so mainly need to focus on not getting pumped.

My current plan is to do the circuit board for the first month, starting off on the easiest until I can comfortably do 3 or four laps, and them move up  a grade and do the same. This is on the Leeds wall board by the way. I can get down 4 or 5 times a week but due to finishing work at different times I think the board will be easier than arranging partners everyday. This will be combined with ten miles of running to work and the wall each time.

Then for the second month continue with the board but do routes and boulder more too. I'll also try get my beastmaker up at home. 

Does this sound okay or should I be trying to add other things or do more/less? Any comments would be appreciated.

How much do you currently run?  cause 40-50miles a week is ALOT....
Otherwise, on the climbing side, seems reasonable, but the  I don't know climbing endurance training that well.

[James Malloch]

Cheers for the replies. I've a membership at leds wall and the lad I'm going with has a city bloc membership so he's going to come and have to odd lead session so that should help.

Sasquatch, I haven't ran a lot recently but used to do loads (a few years ago now though). It will be broken up - 2 miles in the morning, 2.5 miles to the wall and then 5 home.

I'm playing it by how I feel at the moment (I walked Thurs/Fri last week because I was feeling it in my legs). I'm doing it mainly because of how far I live from the wall and I'm now car-less. I would also like to get a decent level of fitness.

Is it not adviseable to do this much?

[Baldy]

Well, as someone who rarely runs.

If I considered going from nothing to this amount of exercise I would blow up by the end of the week, and my routes session would be awful. But then again if you are fit and healthy from an aerobic point of view then you might find this a doddle.

In my opinion, never having seen the leeds wall, but having climbed on the TCA circuit board in exactly the manner you have described, I would say that you should be able to get some mad stamina going.

Before you get on the board think about what you want to achieve and then puch yourself to the max to get it. One more move and learning the difference between where you 'think' you need to let go and where you 'actually' let go seemed to help most for me.

You could try alternating the circuits with some variants.

For example:
Every third move, stop and take one hand off for 3 seconds before reaching the next hold. This will simulate the stresses of clipping and help you learn to find the optimal body position.

I reckon if you follow this plan then you should have mad stamina for easy 7s.

[mrjonathanr]

Is it not adviseable to do this much?

To me it seems like overkill, and unnecessary stress on your body. I'd concentrate effort on climbing, not running, unless you need to lose significant amounts of weight in which case it's a very good idea. Get the bus home?

I'm going to el Chorro in 4 weeks and doing 2 or 3 x quick 7 mile sessions on a treadmill weekly. Having a finger injury means I'm limited re climbing volume and this will help get me light, otherwise I wouldn't bother and would be hanging off my fingers, not strengthening my legs.

[grimer]

Beginnery question: Is it generally accepted that circuits are great training for routes and is the fact you're not pulling up much not really that big a drawback? I'm guessing so, judging by the number of 8c climbers who use them.

[James Malloch]

Baldy, the circuit variations sound good. I'll definitely mix it up a bit like that - thanks! I've only climbed to F7a up to now which was after a 2 month break due to injury and the main problem then was stamina. So I'm hoping to get proficient at that level so it's lots of endurance work mainly.

I might try drop the running a bit then, or walk to work & wall instead and just run back. I thought about the bus but as it's going from South to North Leeds it means getting more than one, and by the time I get to the bus stop that will go past my house it's only another 15 minute run home so I do that instead of waiting around for the bus. I'd like to lose about 7lbs to get down to 11 stone but it's not a priority at all.

[Davo]

Hi

Your plan sounds fairly reasonable and I have previously done something similar for a trip abroad (but without the running).

The circuits should be good but like people have mentioned it is advisable to do routes as well even if it is only for the pyschological help they provide with being above a bolt.

Cheers Dave

[Wood FT]

Beginnery question: Is it generally accepted that circuits are great training for routes and is the fact you're not pulling up much not really that big a drawback? I'm guessing so, judging by the number of 8c climbers who use them.

I think this is a valid question (is it raised is Dav Mc's book?). Surely going crab-stance session after session is just going to make you shit hot for rainbow bridge? You are how you train after all. The works' circuit board reset has a good few figure-8s on it now which helps with the upwards pulling (though I resent the fact that some cruxs can be downclimbing, maybe this is training for the hard won retreat)

[jwi]

Beginnery question: Is it generally accepted that circuits are great training for routes and is the fact you're not pulling up much not really that big a drawback? I'm guessing so, judging by the number of 8c climbers who use them.

Most 8c climbers climb quite a lot on lead as well.  Circuits are fine, but they shouldn't be the only thing on the schedule if it can be avoided, especially for boulder specialist that do the odd sport climbing trip.

[mrjonathanr]

I think this is a valid question (is it raised is Dav Mc's book?). Surely going crab-stance session after session is just going to make you shit hot for rainbow bridge?

Yes.
From a forearm point of view, your capillaries don't know your exact direction of travel.

[Wood FT]

I think this is a valid question (is it raised is Dav Mc's book?). Surely going crab-stance session after session is just going to make you shit hot for rainbow bridge?

Yes.
From a forearm point of view, your capillaries don't know your exact direction of travel.

That's very true, so I guess a result of too much sideways movement is technique malfunction.


Anyway, sorry James, took the thread off a bit there

[mrjonathanr]

I meant 'yes, DMac does refer to side vs upwards in his book'.

I don't think traversing knackers your technique, but only traversing won't mimic some movement patterns you might want to reinforce, nor inculcate the mentality for fighting long, upwards, harder moves. Physically it should be fairly effective.

[abarro81]

Bit different for muscles like shoulders and biceps if not forearms. You can do pe only going up without a rope too e.g. boulder 4x4s ... Most 8c climbers I know don't spend much time with a rope on indoors unless theyre into comps

[Nibile]

I would completely sack the running.
There was a thread on here with this topic broadly analyzed. Running decreases testosterone production - according to what I've read - and I can't see how it can be a good thing in any case. It does not help to avoid getting pumped and there are other ways even to lose some fat or weight.

[ghisino]

Beginnery question: Is it generally accepted that circuits are great training for routes and is the fact you're not pulling up much not really that big a drawback? I'm guessing so, judging by the number of 8c climbers who use them.

an ex french national team trainer had looked at this a few years ago, with some muscular fatigue tests following routes, long circuits or short circuits climbed in interval fashion.

he pointed out three differences between routes and circuits :

1) the upward movement yelds a greater "hemostatic lace" effect*
2) the movement-per-second rate is slower for an upward progression than for lateral one.
3) Clipping the rope puts even more emphasis on 1) and 2)

according to him it was enough to say that if you have the choice, a lead wall is a better choice for specific endurance.
(while the bouldering wall is better left for power/strenght and what his owh version of ARCing : 15 minutes on, "but if you're not on a true overhang and you're only pulling jugs it's worth nothing")


*homeostatic lace effect.
During an isometric effort such as holding a hold, blood circulation within the contracted muscle is severely reduced, or completely cut off (above a certain intensity), as if you were wearing an homeostatic lace.

If you hang straight armed this is limited to the forearm, if you lock off the circulation cut-off will probably start in your biceps region and will be more severe since you're probably squeezing the hold a bit harder.

[shark]

according to him it was enough to say that if you have the choice, a lead wall is a better choice for specific endurance.

Even if you have a willing belay slave a big advantage with circuits is that you can set the difficulty level appropriate to what you trying to achieve - typically either mimicking a project route or having a sequence sustained at a certain level for a defined number of moves.

[ghisino]

i forgot to mention that

1) he referred to competition climbers

2) of course he implies that one not only has a belay slave, but also a routesetting slave (ie, the coach)

but the main point is that of upwards progression, indeed when asked specifically about it the same guy was positive that doing a few boulders in a row (jumping off and running into the next one) would still be better than a mostly traversing circuit.

[RichK]

As long as they are long enough and go up , down & along then circuits are perfect for endurance IMO. 30 + move circuits will give you plenty of endurance & a little PE if they have the odd hard move in. Once your finding them ok, start linking to another circuit and so on..... Ideally they should be consistent all the way but thats sometimes difficult to achieve when your setting a circuit or using a circuit board at a wall. I quite like a bit of a hard section as it emulates routes that have a distinct crux. Throw in rests(a jug or 2) if your trip is climbing routes that have rests on (many euro routes are like this). If its pure stamina then do circuits that have no obvious rest & each move is similar in difficulty to the last.

I find I train more efficiently doing circuits as opposed to routes at a wall - less faff more efficient. Plus you choose circuits that train different things....fingers, shoulders, back, pinches, angles etc

[shark]

Hi Rich

Agree with all that. Worth mentioning that for old farts with reasonable technique circuits, systems board or even foot on campus laddering might be optimal but younger climbers might be better off on lead walls.   

[James Malloch]

Without the running I'd struggle to get to the wall in the required times unfortunately, or it would add more time on and I'd be going to bed as soon as I got home. I'm keeping an eye on my weight though to make sure I'm not wasting away.

[highrepute]

you could get a bike?

[RichK]

Hi Rich

Agree with all that. Worth mentioning that for old farts with reasonable technique circuits, systems board or even foot on campus laddering might be optimal but younger climbers might be better off on lead walls.   

Old farts  how did that happen

[James Malloch]

Just a quick update...

First session on the circuit board I could do a lap okay but for really pumped going for two in a row. Few Weeks on, today I managed 4 laps (80ish moves) without any pump and could do a few laps on the harder circuit.

Going from the step board to vertical lead climbing, I've flashed some new indoor pbs and very happy with my climbing. Dropped the running to 20 ish miles and walking the rest too.

Thanks for all the advice, i'm trying to mix it up a bit. Really psyched for Chorro now and getting outdoors. Just need the fingerboard up and I can get some strength too, if all goes to plan!

[jwi]

Good job! And good luck in El Chorro!

[Rocksteady]

Wanted to ressurect this thread as I'm going to El Chorro for the end of March too - now have 5 training weeks left (giving myself a tuning/rest week before I leave). Not aiming for any PBs as usually struggle to do this on a trip, but would like to perform consistently at my current best level in the low F7s.

I'm wondering what would be the best training to use over the next 5 weeks. I've recently been bouldering more than anything else and have seen the benefits of being stronger than ever before. I try to keep my hand in on routes - generally get on a rope once a week and usually do double laps of easyish routes (always get injured doing hard routes indoors). So I have an OK base to start from. Probably will manage 3-4 sessions a week.

In El Chorro the routes look pretty long. Should I be focusing on:

'Stamina': long circuits (60 moves?) / route 4x4s - necessarily think I'll be starting this at a fairly low level in the early-mid F6s.

'Power endurance': shorter, harder circuits, boulder 4x4s

Bit of both? If both, separate sessions or same session including both types?

Reading the Binney stuff gives me the impression that I can adapt in 1-2 months - which is the time I've got...

Thanks.

[shark]

I'm wondering what would be the best training to use over the next 5 weeks. I've recently been bouldering more than anything else and have seen the benefits of being stronger than ever before. I try to keep my hand in on routes - generally get on a rope once a week and usually do double laps of easyish routes (always get injured doing hard routes indoors). So I have an OK base to start from. Probably will manage 3-4 sessions a week.

In El Chorro the routes look pretty long. Should I be focusing on:

'Stamina': long circuits (60 moves?) / route 4x4s - necessarily think I'll be starting this at a fairly low level in the early-mid F6s.

'Power endurance': shorter, harder circuits, boulder 4x4s

Bit of both? If both, separate sessions or same session including both types?

Reading the Binney stuff gives me the impression that I can adapt in 1-2 months - which is the time I've got...

Thanks.

Both in separate sessions. If you can up it to 4/5 sessions a week.

Don't drop strength/bouldering entirely - keep it ticking over.

[Rocksteady]

Thanks Shark, good succinct answer!

[abarro81]

Ideally you'd have done your base stamina (aero cap/ARC) work by this point so you could focus on getting pumped to hell now. Something to think of for next time...
(Also, not at all convinced you can't successfully mix PE and aerocap in one session - in that order - especially if your PE is at the enduro end of PE.)

[Rocksteady]

Well my plan is going to be something like this:

1st session in a week: Route 4x4s / long circuits progressing to double laps on routes at onsight level
2nd session in a week: Short circuits / boulder 4x4s increasing intensity as I get closer to trip
3rd session in a week: Bouldering + aerocap laps on autobelay
4th session in a week: Fingerboard + 20:10s

I'll report back after trip and give my thoughts on what worked/didn't work.

[Paul B]

Depending on when your sessions occur (and thus rest days), these 'might' be in a less than ideal order?

[Rocksteady]

Good point. General protocol is to go from highest intensity to lowest intensity? While I'd do higher intensity moves bouldering, session with the highest intensity + volume and needing longest recovery time would be short circuits I think.

This level of structuring is what I find hardest actually. Happy making a plan on a macro level but fitting in workouts to right order I find tough. Generally pleased if I can fit everything in a week!

My thoughts:

Mon: Fingerboard
Tue: Route laps
Thu: Boulder
Sat: Short circuits

Gives whole of Sunday and Monday day to recover from circuits. Fingerboard won't affect route laps as going from small holds few moves to big holds lots of moves. Only get one day of rest after laps before bouldering, and one day of rest after. But if I focus on intensity not volume should be OK for recovery.

Any advice?
 

[mrjonathanr]

Personally I think that whilst these insights into adaptation are no doubt true, all but the very elite will benefit from just getting on with doing lots of climbing at varied intensities, in any order.

[Paul B]

Personally I think that whilst these insights into adaptation are no doubt true, all but the very elite will benefit from just getting on with doing lots of climbing at varied intensities, in any order.

I'm not sure I agree, especially if you go to the next level down i.e. session structure where it would become apparent that doing high volume and low intensity followed by low volume, high intensity impacted the latter.

In general I think a LOT of people (myself included at times) talk and post about training rather than actually training (not just bouldering 'a bit').

[TobyD]

Personally I think that whilst these insights into adaptation are no doubt true, all but the very elite will benefit from just getting on with doing lots of climbing at varied intensities, in any order.

I'm not sure I agree, especially if you go to the next level down i.e. session structure where it would become apparent that doing high volume and low intensity followed by low volume, high intensity impacted the latter.

In general I think a LOT of people (myself included at times) talk and post about training rather than actually training (not just bouldering 'a bit').

I agree (on both counts), although I think you (Paul) probably indulge in more efficient and targeted training than 98%. Most people, definitely including myself do far too much of what they are already good at, and not enough of what they are not.
Another observation, off topic really, but .... loads of people train themselves into oblivion, amassing huge reserves of power / endurance / whatever, and then waste the lot when they get really scared 2ft above a bolt / bit of gear / pad, overgrip massively and get as pumped as they would have been if they'd spent all that time in the pub.

[Paul B]

what Andy said tonight about some of the best sprinters never achieving their potential because they were too psyched and unable to rest was interesting. It'd be interesting to know where he heard/read that.

[mrjonathanr]

I agree with the points about intensity and order but still believe it is too easy to overthink and fuss instead of just getting on with it.

Aside a bit of commonsense (train power> then PE> then stamina) I don't think it's helpful to think 'Well i shouldn't do x on Thursday because I did Y on Wednesday'). Getting on and pulling hard without getting too bogged down in analysis would benefit most more IMO.

[jstrongman]

I am also looking for some PE training advice. Living in cornwall and having a wife and small boy, I do not have regular access to a descent climbing or bouldering wall. Things I do have are a variable angle 1-12 rung campus board small (16mm) and large (30mm) rungs and a beastmaker.  Looking for workouts/exercises to fit about an 8 week plan.

Current grades
Bouldering in  7A/+ (1-2 sessions)
Route onsight 7a
Trad onsight E3 5c

[petejh]

Time yourself. Keep one foot on something (chair etc etc). Go up and down your campus board on the large rungs, hand over hand, for 3 mins. Matching on the start and the top (probably the 4th rung). Have 3 mins rest. Do this 4 times. As soon as you can complete all 4 reps, lower the rest time in 15 second increments until you can complete all 4 reps with only 2mins rest between. Or, move onto the small rungs with the same timings and as before start dropping the rest timings once you can complete the 4th rep.

Do twice per week for maximum of 5 weeks. Reap the rewards. Repeat. Or sack it off because it's painful drudgery.


You don't need to know anything more complicated than that for gaining enough PE to do routes up to 8a+, in my experience of being weak as piss at anything requiring PE - seriously, I get pumped tying my shoe laces. You might want to work a bit of strength to get yourself to doing font 7bish in a sesh for cruxy routes.

[jstrongman]

I  am also rubbish at getting pumped often uncoiling the ropes will induce a flash pump!!

With the foot on campusing is it just a matter of laddering or should you mix in some other exercises like a traditional campus workout just with a toe/feet on?

The other thing I am terrible at is recovering on holds is this a PE issue or hand/finger strength?

[scottygillery]

The other thing I am terrible at is recovering on holds is this a PE issue or hand/finger strength?

I wouldn't worry about whether it's strength or PE, aero and an. The key is you'll improve by practising it. You could try incorporating a shake out into you feeton campusing regime.

[jstrongman]

Time yourself. Keep one foot on something (chair etc etc). Go up and down your campus board on the large rungs, hand over hand, for 3 mins. Matching on the start and the top (probably the 4th rung). Have 3 mins rest. Do this 4 times. As soon as you can complete all 4 reps, lower the rest time in 15 second increments until you can complete all 4 reps with only 2mins rest between. Or, move onto the small rungs with the same timings and as before start dropping the rest timings once you can complete the 4th rep.

Do twice per week for maximum of 5 weeks. Reap the rewards. Repeat. Or sack it off because it's painful drudgery.


You don't need to know anything more complicated than that for gaining enough PE to do routes up to 8a+, in my experience of being weak as piss at anything requiring PE - seriously, I get pumped tying my shoe laces. You might want to work a bit of strength to get yourself to doing font 7bish in a sesh for cruxy routes.

Oh my lord!! Did my first session last night thought that this was going to be easy and when I statred it felt piss, but then the pump started, R1 managed 2.10 min R2 1.40 R3 1.35 and R4 1.20 so pumped  Such a simple exercise but so effective at generating a pure forearm pump and using the large rungs you can really push into the burn.

[webbo]

When doing 4 x 4 bouldering how long should the problems be  ( how many hand moves ) or whats the shortest you can get away with and still be effective.

[petejh]

Oh my lord!! Did my first session last night thought that this was going to be easy and when I statred it felt piss, but then the pump started, R1 managed 2.10 min R2 1.40 R3 1.35 and R4 1.20 so pumped  Such a simple exercise but so effective at generating a pure forearm pump and using the large rungs you can really push into the burn.

Haha  Good stuff. Yep it's very basic and very effective, like all good training should be.

Looks like you should aim for 2 mins on each rep, try 3 mins rest between reps. You ideally want to be failing to complete on the last rep. Aim to relax your grip as you climb to help blood flow, and swap leading hand each time you go back 'up'.

(that'll be £25)

[scottygillery]

When doing 4 x 4 bouldering how long should the problems be  ( how many hand moves ) or whats the shortest you can get away with and still be effective.

Depends what you are training for. Assuming you are also looking to train for choro and that it also endurance that you lack (as OP). Then match the number of moves to the number of moves on the routes out there. So , i guess 40 moves or more.

Unfortunately there is no way to train for long routes by doing the "the shortest you can get away with"

Is the problem that you only have assess to 3 moves problems? In this case you'll have to opt for 12x4s.

[jstrongman]

....

(that'll be £25)

[/quote]

Thanks, will send you a pasty when I get up Strongbow (F7c)

[webbo]

 The shortest you can get away with is more about the length of the problems on my board, rather than hoping to develop the stamina for overhanging 60 metre routes by doing 2 move problems.
The straight up problems are 4 hand moves to the finishing hold 5 to match it.

[scottygillery]

The shortest you can get away with is more about the length of the problems on my board, rather than hoping to develop the stamina for overhanging 60 metre routes by doing 2 move problems.
The straight up problems are 4 hand moves to the finishing hold 5 to match it.

I guess my advice still stands. You have to tailor the number of moves to the routes you are aiming to climb. Which will mean setting a goal.

i.e. raindogs = 25 moves, 5or6 times up your board. OR Lourdes = 200 moves (guess), 40to50 times up your board! (this isn't realistically possible unless you have the determination of a Jazz musician on a 2 hour improvised flute solo)

[Sasquatch]

40to50 times up your board! (this isn't realistically possible unless you have the determination of a Jazz musician on a 2 hour improvised flute solo)

Been there, done that.  And yes, you have to have something seriously missing from your brain to make it work. 

I could never make it work by doing it for time, but was able to manage when I started doing it just for time....  After about 30-50 move sets, I shifted over to doing 5 minutes and building from there.  Generally it seemed like I would be doing 10-15 moves a minute.  At the most I was doing 4-5 20 minute sessions (about 200-300 moves) on an 8 tall x 8 wide board 30 degree board.  VERY mentally painful, and ultimately not that productive....

WhatI found most effective was what I called a 10minute 4x4.  Climb problem 1, then get to a jug and rest shake out for about 3 minutes, climb problem 2, then rest on jug for 3 minutes, climb problem 3 rest on jug for 3 min, then climb problem 4.  In total it would take me about 10 minutes.  This seemed to mimic and simulate a couple of positives for me.  #1 remembering to rest, being able to recover at a rest, and still have the punch at the end to do some hard moves.  At first it was hard just to stay on for 10 minutes, but soon the recovery became effective and I could do much harder problems as well. 

[shark]

The shortest you can get away with is more about the length of the problems on my board, rather than hoping to develop the stamina for overhanging 60 metre routes by doing 2 move problems.
The straight up problems are 4 hand moves to the finishing hold 5 to match it.

Can you contrive a circuit on it ?

[webbo]

I can do circuits on it, its about 10ft high by 12ft wide 40 degrees. I thought 4 x 4 was the modern way of doing things.
I currently have a 22 hand move circuit on it, I need some better holds to aid the down climbs and more matting to do any thing longer.

[Rocksteady]

I've just come back from my El Chorro trip following about 6 weeks endurance-focus 'training'. If anyone's interested, this is how it went for me.

Each week I generally achieved one routes session doing double laps on routes, up to my onsight level. I would have done 4x4s but didn't feel achievable in overcrowded Westway on Tuesdays/Thursdays. I supplemented this with one 'boulder PE' session, where I either did 4xs on boulders (also hard at crowded wall) or boulder circuits up to about 50 moves. I never felt I got the balance right on these - was either going at boulders too hard and falling off half-way in my circuit or too easy and not feeling super-pumped. I also kept one boulder session a week going as I didn't want to lose the strength gains I'd made over the autumn/winter. I think this was successful.

I found that as the weeks went on I was feeling drained and less sharp. Had a lot of work on and probably never got 8 hours sleep on any worknight in the last month of training. As I was feeling tired a lot of the time I decided not to add any other training sessions, eg. fingerboard training sessions (I was also carrying finger injuries into the training cycle). The last 2 weeks of training I felt I achieved about 3 good sessions out of 6. My last routes endurance session I achieved my top performance grade/difficulty wise, but my overall volume had dropped. My last training session was a good hard outdoor bouldering session where I was pleased with my performance (one grade below PB). I then had a week where I just stretched and did antagonist exercises. This was good as I was aching all week from the boulder session on Sunday.

In El Chorro I felt quite fit (but not fit enough for the 30m routes), and strong enough to pull on most of the moves I tried. What I struggled with was mind - hadn't done routes outside for four months or more and was finding it difficult to deal with runouts. Also was finding it hard route-reading and using my feet well. Too much plastic pulling! In the first days of the holiday I just didn't perform up to my expectations or my usual standard. On the second last day I had a day of easy volume which I really enjoyed. On the last day I matched my personal best redpoint of F7b (though this one was almost certainly 7a+). Ultimately, I was pleased with how I was climbing by the last day of the trip. If I'd had another week I might have actually started climbing well!

What I'd do differently for another trip: more falling practice before going. More easy volume in the first few days of holiday to get my head in gear and my route-reading working better. More sleep in run up to holiday to recover from training. Rehab injuries effectively and not just add training volume and hope. Do boulder circuits more than 4x4s. Train at less busy times where possible and do routes up-down-up. This sort of pump replicates the feeling I get on outdoor routes more than doing a route twice.

My plan now is to focus on rehab for my injuries but try to keep climbing indoors and out on easier stuff so I don't completely lose my gains.

Hope this long rambling post helps others in their endurance training plans in the future. 

[thrashhard]

Gratulations.

But i have 2 questions.

1. Do you really feel you need to climb a route up-down-up or at least twice to get as pumped or exhausted as on 30m outdoor routes?
i´m living in an area where 35m routes are somehow "the standard" and i´m pretty used to that lenght but on 17m gym routes i get way more pumped due to the lack of really good rests.

2. is there not one sunny crag where you can climb outdoors in the winter to train real rock climbing? would be a lot easier to climb in el chorro if you would have spent at least 2 sunny days a month on real rock i´d guess.

[slackline]

2. is there not one sunny crag where you can climb outdoors in the winter to train real rock climbing? would be a lot easier to climb in el chorro if you would have spent at least 2 sunny days a month on real rock i´d guess.

Would it be a fair guess that you don't live in the UK thrashhard?

[thrashhard]

2. is there not one sunny crag where you can climb outdoors in the winter to train real rock climbing? would be a lot easier to climb in el chorro if you would have spent at least 2 sunny days a month on real rock i´d guess.

Would it be a fair guess that you don't live in the UK thrashhard?

Good guess.
Austria

[2 Tru]

Found that really helpful Rocksteady.

As a consequence of this thread I started my own endurance training before a planned trip to Kalymnos. Sadly I broke my collarbone mountain biking 3 weeks before the trip thats why I'm writing on forums now instead of crushing tuffas.

I definitely found from past trips that it takes a few days to get you head in gear sometimes even if you have been climbing outside as the rock type and route style is often very different from what you are used to. Best to learn these differences on easier routes to protect your ego and then gradually ramp up as the week goes on.

Off topic but anyone got any advice on exercises I can do to slowly prepare my body to climb again? 5 weeks in and I'm going spare.