Bosiwad

[Will Hunt]

I bet you four of those aren't 9A.

 

[teestub]

I bet you four of those aren't 9A.

Go on then… the floodgates on Alphane haven’t exactly opened despite it being perma dry and within a few hours drive of most Euro wads.

 

[Fellover]

From my armchair... I reckon L’Ombre du Voyageur is not 9A, but Terranova is 9A.

 

[duncan]

I bet you four of those aren't 9A.

Good game!

Repeated
Burden of Dreams
Alphane
Soudain Seul
Return of the Sleepwalker
Spots of Time

Unrepeated
Megatron
Arrival of the Birds
L'Ombra du Voyageur
Blackflip SDS

Of the unrepeated, Megatron has had a fair bit of attention, is it hard to get in condition? Arrival of the Birds doesn't sound soft if it is, as Roberts suggests, harder than Spots of Time. Timorov doesn't have any 8C+s in his CV but unfortunately no-one is going to repeat Blackflip any time soon. I'll give you L'Ombra du Voyageur with shoes and thigh pads, although it would be really cool if it held its grade (the ever modest M. Albert thought 9A+ for a barefoot and bare thigh ascent).

That seems to leave at least two from the five repeated of which only Soudain Seul has had a different grade offered to the general climbing public.

 

[Will Hunt]

Backflip SDS
The Charles Albert thing. I'm sorry but eating boiled-up ladybirds and sleeping in a cave does not a 9A make.
Alphane (obvs)
Either Soudain Seul or RotS.

 

[jwi]

Camille Coudert thinks Soudain Seul is 9A, and his history indicates that very few will take a lower grade for something than him. I think Soudain Seul is safe at 9A.

However, I suspect general overgrading in the > 8B range. Most climbers who's done an 8C+ should be able to flash 8B+ now and then and a large proportion of the 8B they try. Most 9A repaters should flash 8C and an 8B+ flash should be unremarkable. I simply not see this (apart from a few climbers who I suspect operate under their max level (e.g. Adam Ondra or Tomoa Narasaki, because lack of interest in hard outdoor bouldering))

 

[teestub]

After watching that footage of Charles on Off the Wagon, I wouldn’t bet against him, even if it does look plum for some full Barrows treatment. Also seems maybe the second least likely to get repeated due to location.

https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/episodes/reel-rock-s8-e2

I also don’t think there’s any evidence Alphane is soft now, look at the all star cast of people who have done it, and Burden has now had a similar amount of ascents I think?

 

[36chambers]

However, I suspect general overgrading in the > 8B range. Most climbers who's done an 8C+ should be able to flash 8B+ now and then and a large proportion of the 8B they try. Most 9A repaters should flash 8C and a 8B+ flash should be unremarkable. I simply not see this (apart from a few climbers who I suspect operate under their max level (e.g. Adam Ondra or Tomoa Narasaki, because lack of interest in hard outdoor bouldering))

I'm not convinced about this. If your max is a grade that you regularly climb without too much investment then maybe, but then that's probably not your max.

At least from my general climbing peers no one is flashing two grades below their max.

edit: although in the context of "professionals", they'll have a significantly larger supply of new climbs to go at...

 

[jwi]

You can also demonstrate that you have the required level by repeating a lot of problems at X-2 in short order. Like Nalle did after Burden, where he demonstrated his level by repeating many 8C in few attempts.

Or Seb Bouin for 9c endurance routes. We can believe he has the level because 9b endurance routes are clearly piss.

Most who've done correctly graded 7C can do an occasional 7B flash, and they do most that suit them in a few tries. At least that is my experience. Same for 8A and 7A

 

[spidermonkey09]

You can also demonstrate that you have the required level by repeating a lot of problems at X-2 in short order. Like Nalle did after Burden, where he demonstrated his level by repeating many 8C in few attempts.

Or Seb Bouin for 9c endurance routes. We can believe he has the level because 9b endurance routes are clearly piss.

Most who've done correctly graded 7C can do an occasional 7B flash, and they do most that suit them in a few tries. At least that is my experience. Same for 8A and 7A

I think this is far, far too formulaic and only holds if the hypothetical climbers professed 'max' is in fact nowhere near their max. Maybe a British climber thing where we have so little rock that sieging stuff becomes the norm.

 

[abarro81]

I'm not sure that formula works quite right for boulder grades, I don't think I know many people flashing a large proportion of the problems they do at max-3 grades... I think this only works if not putting that much time into 'max'? Doing max-2 pretty fast seems more realistic

 

[sdm]

I think flashing x-2 is probably very rare in bouldering if x is actually your max.

I have flashed x-2 once, but it was a clear outlier. It suited my style perfectly and I suspect it was soft, time will tell as it gets more repeats.

I can't think of another x-2 that I've been close to flashing. I've never flashed x-3, and there's only 3 x-4 that I've flashed.

I have climbed a few x-2 in a session, but the average number of sessions is probably about 3.

I don't think many of the people I climb with regularly have flashed x-2.

 

[remus]

I have flashed x-2 once, but it was a clear outlier. It suited my style perfectly and I suspect it was soft, time will tell as it gets more repeats.

Couldn't you say something similar about your hardest problems though? If you are anything like me, I've done a couple of things at x but there's plenty of x out there which don't suit me for whatever reason and might as well be x+2 in terms of how feasible they actually seem to me.

 

[Wellsy]

Backflip SDS
The Charles Albert thing. I'm sorry but eating boiled-up ladybirds and sleeping in a cave does not a 9A make.
Alphane (obvs)
Either Soudain Seul or RotS.

Finally Will Hunt breaks his long silence on grades, you don't see that very often

 

[jwi]

You can also demonstrate that you have the required level by repeating a lot of problems at X-2 in short order. Like Nalle did after Burden, where he demonstrated his level by repeating many 8C in few attempts.

Or Seb Bouin for 9c endurance routes. We can believe he has the level because 9b endurance routes are clearly piss.

Most who've done correctly graded 7C can do an occasional 7B flash, and they do most that suit them in a few tries. At least that is my experience. Same for 8A and 7A

I think this is far, far too formulaic and only holds if the hypothetical climbers professed 'max' is in fact nowhere near their max. Maybe a British climber thing where we have so little rock that sieging stuff becomes the norm.

True, some people are very strong or very flexible but really bad at climbing and have a hard time climbing things quckly since they have to learn how to climb on the actual climbs they are trying to siege. Maybe this is true for entire sub-populations of climbing (it used to be too true in northern scandinavia when the climbing season was short and there were no good gyms), but for the elite, those who climb near full time, I would expect them to be very good at doing things that suit them fast.

 

[Wellsy]

You can tell that it is absolutely not the standard to be able to climb 9A and flash 8C because nobody has done it, and most haven't flashed 8B+

It doesn't really matter whether one thinks they should be able to; they haven't

 

[sdm]

I have flashed x-2 once, but it was a clear outlier. It suited my style perfectly and I suspect it was soft, time will tell as it gets more repeats.

Couldn't you say something similar about your hardest problems though? If you are anything like me, I've done a couple of things at x but there's plenty of x out there which don't suit me for whatever reason and might as well be x+2 in terms of how feasible they actually seem to me.

Definitely, there's a lot more x that I can't do than x that I can do. As I get closer to my max grade, the problems that I do tend to suit my style more and more. They tend to feature at least one of my strengths (steep, 3D climbing, compression, crimps, long, flexible footwork). The maximum I'm capable of climbing in something that suits me less well might only be x-2.

The x-2 that I flashed felt like a big outlier, even among such a self selecting sample.

Put me on my anti style (big dynos on slopey pinches) and the max I'm capable of climbing might only be x-5.

 

[jwi]

You can tell that it is absolutely not the standard to be able to climb 9A and flash 8C because nobody has done it, and most haven't flashed 8B+

It doesn't really matter whether one thinks they should be able to; they haven't

That's why I suspect the grade bands are too narrow in the higher grades.

That said, Tomoa, Adam and Jacob have all demonstrated a level where I would expect them to be able to climb 8C+/9A max

 

[Wellsy]

Your suspicion is that because the climbers performances don't match up to a requirement you have personally created that the grade bands are too narrow? That seems backwards to me.

 

[remus]

Your suspicion is that because the climbers performances don't match up to a requirement you have personally created that the grade bands are too narrow? That seems backwards to me.

I can't remember where it came from, but there's a similar x/x-2 rule of thumb for sport that's been floating around for quite a long time, so I suspect jwi is just applying the same idea to bouldering.