[Fingers of a Martyr]

I've got a few friends down there, they're saying there's been 3 bombs, one possibly a nail bomb, and there's been gunshots at several locations but no confirmation of this.  

[cowboyhat]

What I love about today's events is the apparent psychological difference between a Terrorist attack which claims many lives and a Terrorist attack which claims none. The clue is in the title. We didn't foil them - they were just inept. They still tried to kill people yet the attitude down here is very much 'how are we doing in the test...'

[Fingers of a Martyr]

Title of what? When i started this thread i had no idea that the terrorists had fucked up.

[dave]

Mr Whitby, told BBC News: "I saw an Asian guy run onto the train hotly pursued by three plain-clothes police officers.

"One of them was carrying a black handgun - it looked like an automatic - they pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him."

Passenger Briony Coetsee said: "We were on the Tube and then we suddenly heard someone say, 'Get out, get out' and then we heard gunshots."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706787.stm

[Bonjoy]

Idiots! How much useful info are they going to get out of a dead criminal :roll:

[dave]

i'm guessing more info than if he was wearing a semtex jumpsuit and detonated himself, which is why they always cap terrorists cos you never know if they is hiding a grenade or whatever. they are only not a threat to life when they have been iced.

[Bubba]

True bonjoy, but then if they thought he had the ability to detonate a bomb like the ones a couple of weeks ago, then I don't think they were wrong to shoot him.

edit: ho hum me and dave just posted the same thing.

[cofe]

i wait with interest for FOAT's comments on this latest event...

[Bonjoy]

Had he not already unsuccesfully deployed his explosives. I suppose there's always the chance he might have had some extra ammo just in case.... Still, if you have someone on the floor imobilised then they are beyond causing harm. Anyway, it's pointless speculating too much, i'm sure they were following proceedure.

[Bubba]

He only set of a detonator didn't he? For all they knew there could have been another det in case of failure - or something activated by a mobile or something.

I agree that he was probably imobilised when on the floor but I doubt that anyone had time to make rational decisions like that in the heat of the moment.

I'm not for the police popping people but they were probably convinced there was a real threat to theirs and others' lives.

[Johnny Brown]

Five shots at point blank range. Amazing. I kill you. I kill you again. What, you may have a bomb? I kill you again. And again. Are those people still watching? Let's kill him again.

[dave]

lovejoy even if he was on the floor he could have been a threat. for example could have had anything in his hands or hidden about his person that he could have accessed even if he was cuffed and bagged etc. You really need to watch soem of the SAS documentaries about the iranian embasy seige adn shit liek that lovejoy, it will really fill you in on the realities of terrorist flavaz. in the ebasy seige one fo the torrists hid in with the hostages and as they were bundling them out threw a grenade down the stairs - it didn't go off, but you get the picture shit can happen. if someone out to kill people you can't handle them with the same logic as you would chasing a car thief or a vandal. terrorist and particularly suicide bombers in the thick of it ain't never going to "come quietly".

[Johnny Brown]

Which is why killing them once is no good either. They just don't come quietly these guys.

[Bonjoy]

Like I said, i'm sure there are operational prodedures for this kind of shit and i'm sure they were followed, but it's still a damn shame he can't now be questioned. The info gained could have saved a lots of lives further down the line.... It's a question of balancing present risk against future risk.

[Johnny Brown]

From a quick search, the only other kind of person who would need killing five times that I could find was 'Camouflage' the 'awfully-big marine' out of Stan Ridgeway's eighties electro-nam-pop classic of the same name. He was said to be the silent type so it probably wouldn't have been worth restraining the terrorist anyway.

[dave]

so if you shoot them once only, could not kill them, could just puncture a lung or summert, or even miss all crucial organs entirely. in the embasy seige they'd empty a full clip into each terrorist as a matter of course. one guy in the postmortem they gave up counting at like 70 bullets or summert. I think this guy got off lightly at 5. they do what they need to do to guarantee he's dead. people can and have survived a couple of rounds at point blank range.

but i suggest that the people how decided the best procedure for dealing with terrorists in the police have peobably got more of an insight into (and experience of) counter-terrorism than either JB AND lovejoy put together. :wink:

anyway you never know they may catch some o the other ones and get mo' info. though it is unlikely i recon, cos even if the police don't ice them any failed suicide bomber may well decide to cap himself rather than give up info when the shit hits the fan. I mean its not as if they are afraid of dieing! maybe bit like the japs in the war, fall on the swrod rather than face the indignity of capture.

[cofe]

lovejoy even if he was on the floor he could have been a threat. for example could have had anything in his hands or hidden about his person that he could have accessed even if he was cuffed and bagged etc. You really need to watch soem of the SAS documentaries about the iranian embasy seige adn shit liek that lovejoy, it will really fill you in on the realities of terrorist flavaz. in the ebasy seige one fo the torrists hid in with the hostages and as they were bundling them out threw a grenade down the stairs - it didn't go off, but you get the picture shit can happen. if someone out to kill people you can't handle them with the same logic as you would chasing a car thief or a vandal. terrorist and particularly suicide bombers in the thick of it ain't never going to "come quietly".

i know you bang on about apostrophes but your spelling is shocking man. and don't come the 'i was typing quick' shit with me boyo. back to school it is for you sunshine.

[cofe]

but i suggest that the people how decided the best procedure for dealing with terrorists in the police have peobably got more of an insight into (and experience of) counter-terrorism than either JB AND lovejoy put together.

 :shock: is that possible?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!???!

[Bubba]

Five shots at point blank range. Amazing. I kill you. I kill you again. What, you may have a bomb? I kill you again. And again. Are those people still watching? Let's kill him again.

Unless you have the luxury of a nice headshot, there's no guarantee that one shot is going to disable somebody straight away. You're not going to fire one shot, then hang around to see if that worked right away.

[Johnny Brown]

Killing a man (five times) at point blank range whilst your mates hold him down is a bit different to spraying a room full of terrorists whilst abseiling through a window. Especially as I'm presuming he had a bomb (otherwise they probably wouldn't have killed him) which  you would want to avoid pumping bullets into.

And Dave, you can be forgiven for not knowing this, but I used to instruct at the Royal Navy's Board and Search school.

[AndyR]

And Dave, you can be forgiven for not knowing this, but I used to instruct at the Royal Navy's Board and Search school.

Is that about teaching people how to use Google whilst snowboarding?

[webbo]

And Dave, you can be forgiven for not knowing this, but I used to instruct at the Royal Navy's Board and Search school.

presumably where you taught dense marine warfare.

[cofe]

And Dave, you can be forgiven for not knowing this, but I used to instruct at the Royal Navy's Board and Search school.

presumably where you taught dense marine warfare.

2 crack commandos in our midst. anyone else got a secret past? i guess if any of us are still in the marines we wouldn't tell anyway eh?

[JR]

And Dave, you can be forgiven for not knowing this, but I used to instruct at the Royal Navy's Board and Search school.

presumably where you taught dense marine warfare.

2 crack commandos in our midst. anyone else got a secret past? i guess if any of us are still in the marines we wouldn't tell anyway eh?

lol, well i start  at lympstone aug 2006, and ill be there next week...

and as for instructing the board and search facility, you only need an SPA to supervise the fast roping tower. ;-)

[cofe]

forgot about andy mcavidrobocopmerrionnab. anyone else? bravo, whiskey, tango, lilt, mars...