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Hubble: Sean McColl Kneebars and pads (Read 36532 times)

gme

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Hubble: Sean McColl Kneebars and pads
June 04, 2014, 09:56:17 am
It appears that there is no conformation from anyone if this was ticked or not. I presume they are keeping it secret for the big unveil later in the year.

I have however heard that due respect was not given to this important climbing artifact and that the crux has been completely ruined by the use of knee pads. More evidence of this activity appeared today on a blog and twitter feeds.

Surely this is just wrong, the crux of Hubble should not be done with a fucking knee bar, pad or no pad. >:( >:( >:(

Wood FT

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I asked Ethan and he said McColl didn't do it

davej

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Out of interest would you get the tick using a knee pad???

Dexter

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It appears that there is no conformation from anyone if this was ticked or not. I presume they are keeping it secret for the big unveil later in the year.

I have however heard that due respect was not given to this important climbing artifact and that the crux has been completely ruined by the use of knee pads. More evidence of this activity appeared today on a blog and twitter feeds.

Surely this is just wrong, the crux of Hubble should not be done with a fucking knee bar, pad or no pad. >:( >:( >:(

any link for this?

slackline

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any link for this?

You don't needs links on the internet.

a dense loner

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Knee pads are a strange thing. Ie if someone did Hubble wearing one I wouldn't recognise an ascent, since it's not in keeping with the FA. Likewise, and no disrespect to Ethan, I don't recognise that he's done belly of the beast. Well he's obviously done it of course but not in the style of the FA. I don't recognise any of barrows ascents anyway so that doesn't matter. As an aside nobody recognises my opinions so they don't matter either. So before any knee pad advocates come on saying I'm talking rot as I pointed out in my first statement they're a very strange thing.

Fiend

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BARRAS get to it!
I don't recognise any ascents of Brown & Whillans -era routes done in sticky rubber. :devangel:

shark

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I have however heard that due respect was not given to this important climbing artifact and that the crux has been completely ruined by the use of knee pads. More evidence of this activity appeared today on a blog and twitter feeds.

Links for the blog and tweets anyone?

slackline

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Currently reading Pete Livesey - Fast and Free: Stories of a Rock-Climbing Legend and one of his essays mentions knee pads.  Clearly the 80s missed a trick with silly rules about no drop knees/no kneebars/no knees allowed at all, do away with your patella completely.. :clown:


Lets save pages of repetition by just linking to the discussion debacle that ensued after Mina crushed Mecca using a kneepad/kneebar.

a dense loner

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But you're missing the point of shoes are going to get better they're not a new addition. Joe bloggs walks around in shoes, kids start climbing in shoes, no one walks around wearing knee pads. Knee pads are new and completely arbitrary, there'll be elbow pads next. Though that's all we'll get to luckily.

davej

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i'm  with you on this dense!

Sloper

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Better technique does not invalidate an ascent, take Brad Pitt for example a bit of nous makes it a few grades easier, are these ticks to be wiped from the slate of history?

The use of a knee / thigh pad makes no difference, if you can knee bar it and make it (guessing 8b rather than 8c+/9a) then get on with it.

slackline

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Links for the blog and tweets anyone?

You're on twitter  ;)

But you're missing the point of shoes are going to get better they're not a new addition. Joe bloggs walks around in shoes, kids start climbing in shoes, no one walks around wearing knee pads. Knee pads are new and completely arbitrary, there'll be elbow pads next. Though that's all we'll get to luckily.

I believe the same argument was made about the first incarnations of specialist shoes/sticky rubber "they're cheating" etc. etc.

Its called evolution.

Quote from: Dave Graham
Knee pads are fine to use, so donít let anyone tell you it's stupid or unethical. I am a firm believer they are part of the Future, and do no one harm, just protect the precious skin on top of your knee.


cowboyhat

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Barrows doesn't need a knee bar he is tall enough to do it the same way as Steve Dunning; keeping feet low.

So does Steve Dunnings ascent not count?

petejh

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(Weak troll Sloper, stick to leftie-baiting.)

Here's a better one..

 :lol:  I can't help but laugh.

... When Alex did Pilgrimage I was one of few on here to make the obvious point about pads being an extra piece of equipment, by comparing the use of kneepads to reduce difficulty to the use of heel spurs in bolted mixed climbing - which are now ignored by most climbers even though they make hard routes easier.
I got the impression then that lots of peak-based folk thought I was being over-reactionary - so what's wrong? Is it ok to reduce the challenge of a classic cutting-edge testpiece in a Welsh hovel but not on a Peak one  :P

(edit, here's the link to 18 pages-worth of knee pad discussion) : http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,21189.0.html

a dense loner

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Sloper all you've said is better technique has made something easier? Bravo, an addition of 10mm x 300mm of rubber in a place where there is normally no such thing hasn't been touched upon.
Slackers, I know what you're saying about shoes and next, obviously chalk no one walks around wearing chalk on their hands etc, is completely different to an addition of rubber on the limbs.
I recognise DG's FA's wearing knee pads since this is how the probs were done, and most of his FA's are brilliant bits of climbing. Not his repeats of problems done without. I said it was strange  ;)
When I hear of someone doing something at the top of THEIR game I always think "beast, get in" then if someone mentions they used a knee pad what's left of my heart sinks a little

Fiend

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I don't recognise any ascents of Brown & Whillans -era routes done in sticky rubber with chalk wearing tape gloves.

 :jab:

slackline

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I don't really care that much for the topic, but my understanding has always been that sports grades are for the easiest sequence possible. 

If someone missed a trick doing the FA and subsequently an easier sequence is found then the routes grade will be reassessed, even if its using a new piece of "tech", then thats just life.  Perhaps the FA did realise there was an alternative option but purposefully eschewed it in favour of their preferred (eliminate?) sequence.  If kneebars are out, should you be forced to use the exact same footholds as cowboyhat is questioning (which would be ridiculous since everyone is a slightly different size).

It doesn't at all detract from the original sequence, its just a different sequence, and as always the key is in being honest and open about the style of the ascent which seems to be exactly what McColl* has done in saying he was using a knee-bar when trying it.

gme/dense/anyone else who doesn't like the idea of a knee-pad/bar being used have this detailed information on the ascent (or attempts) and can choose to disregard it if they think its not in-keeping with the style in which they think the route should be done.


* Can't see any mention of knee pads/bars there though I'm afraid shark, you could try his blog (linked from his Twitter profile) but it too seems devoid of info on Hubble  (can't be arsed digging out the links to his Farcebook).


Danny

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But you're missing the point of shoes are going to get better they're not a new addition. Joe bloggs walks around in shoes...

The above comment made me laugh, as I thought about the significant numbers of humans that still walk about barefoot.

Then I thought about Dave Graham's comments about TSOTW, in that it's more like 8A+ into 8A+ rather than 8B into 8B with refined sequences and, also, toe rubber on rock shoes. My impression is that his view would be that most stuff is fair game, even on the classics, as long as you're honest about how all these things alter the overall difficulty.

I'm away to do roly pollies up the Etive slabs in my stealth suit.

Doylo

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I find myself a bit torn by the kneepad debate as I've used one on certain things (Trigger Cut and a few FAs). On the other hand it seems a shame when iconic hard classics are tarnished. No one else has tried Barrows Pilgrimage kneebars, they were never going to catch on as they are  so height specific and he's pretty good at them. It has taken the shine off the problem for other contenders like Danny and Pete though and will probably not get done again for some time. As for Hubble I think it would be a shame if someone kneebarred it.

slackline

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As for Hubble I think it would be a shame if someone kneebarred it.

Why?  Its their choice, not yours.  If you want to have a go sans kneebar thats your choice and no one would begrudge you doing so.

As long as they're not damaging the rock trying to tell others how they should or shouldn't climb seems a bit silly to me. :shrug:

gme

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The blog and tweets i was referring to are Ethans. In the picture he is clearly wearing a knee pad. I have heard that MColl got a good knee bar in that meant he could do the crux static, emulating the legendary feat of Malc.

Whilst i am being ever so slightly factious it really does wrangle me a bit. This was an organised trip about historic routes and due to the nature of the route and the style of climbing shouldn't it just not be allowed to be done with knee pads.

I dont give a shit about the one on mecca, i would have happily tried to use it myself if i had known about it, or any of the others that have changed problems (although i still don't think the real pilgrimage has been repeated) but this is Hubble FFS. Its not a great route, not a great line, not great rock on not a great crag but is series of moves that inspired a lot of people with one in particular that has now been ruined.

turnipturned

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I don't see the problem with people using kneepads etc. Its going to happen. However, I think people should be transparent if they used kneepads. Also, if they want to downgrade the route/boulder problem, that's fair enough! However, sometimes I feel this takes away something from the FA and subsequent repeaters who have/will choose to do it in a similar style, who either didn't have access to kneepads or do not have the right leg length to make them work.

I also find it a bit embarrassing if you need to use a kneepad to make a 24 year old route easier. Either Moon was a 'bit before his time' or as a whole we aint improved  got stronger very much!
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 11:49:52 am by turnipturned »

Johnny Brown

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Jeez, we've had this before. Ruined is ridiculous. It's still there, unchanged. What about no toehooking? No thumbs? Compulsory two-pounds of dreads? Rules belong indoors.

Doylo

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As for Hubble I think it would be a shame if someone kneebarred it.

Why?  Its their choice, not yours.  If you want to have a go sans kneebar thats your choice and no one would begrudge you doing so.

As long as they're not damaging the rock trying to tell others how they should or shouldn't climb seems a bit silly to me. :shrug:

Their choice but I'm allowed to say I think it's a shame. For Reasons Gavs just posted above.