[shark]

Waddage to Mina for doing Mecca 

Kneebars with new kneepad technology means that this is has recently become THE way to climb Mecca (or is it?) and is significantly easier than without. But is it still 8b+?

I hope so for everyone who is pleased to get their first 8b+ tick in.

On the 8a.nu comments serial downgraders Mawson took the grade " The kneebar sequence with new knee pads makes this very close to 8b but probably not quite" and so did Ed Hamer "Soft, YEAH". So is that the end of it? Chatting to Steve Mac he was unsure (whilst cutting a ridge in the back of his Blancos for better heel-hooking  )

Any other views and more generally on kneepads and their use?? ... Available at a reduced price from our Sponsors the Depot     

[J_duds]

Kneepad helped me on bens roof, but I think this was because it stopped my knee from hurting and I'm a wimp with painful moves!

Personal view: It’s good for cranking, and as long as you’re true on the style you did it in! Enjoy it

[Duma]

Hope this isn't the case, but I can't help reading this as a pretty negative post (maybe that says more about me?), despite the starting sentence. Neil and Ed say 8b+, Steve Mac isn't sure, but when a girl does Mecca, then you start thinking about whether it's really 8b+ and open a thread?
Personally I'd say leg length makes more difference than pads to most knee bars, and since IME so long as you fit into the knee bar, the longer the better, Mina's on pretty safe ground.

disclaimer: I'm incapable of 8b or 8b+, and so can't tell the difference

[tim palmer]

as long as you’re true on the style you did it in! Enjoy it

  (except for in the cave  )
I got spanked on mecca, I tried to do the knee bars (sans pad) and found it very uncomfortable and very strenuous, to the point that they were of no help so I am not really sure if the knee bars do make it much easier but then again, if I am known for anything it is not my technical finesse.

I think neil and ed's comments are more a reflection of the level they operate at, than a reflection of the difficulty of the route.  I think downgrading mecca would be the ne plus ultra of the ridiculous downgrading trend.

[Johnny Brown]

I'm not convinced developments in equipment should be regarded as reasons to downgrade. Boots, training facilities and methods etc have also come on a long way since the eighties; this is all part of the reason why 8b+ is no longer the cutting edge.

[shark]

Hope this isn't the case, but I can't help reading this as a pretty negative post (maybe that says more about me?),

I'd just like it to know the truth.

There have been a lot of mutterings about whether the knee is on or not but now it has become the typical way to do the route and by all accounts is significantly less hard this way.

I think it would be great to establish that it is still 8b+ but if it is 8b lets accept that rather than jolly along, not treading on each others egos and so end up with grades that don't reflect the difficulty as discussed in Caminiti's post about Rocklands.

[shark]

I'm not convinced developments in equipment should be regarded as reasons to downgrade. Boots, training facilities and methods etc have also come on a long way since the eighties; this is all part of the reason why 8b+ is no longer the cutting edge.

Not all routes are easier from using kneepads

[shark]

but when a girl does Mecca, then you start thinking about whether it's really 8b+ and open a thread?

I was discussing about it on the way back from the tor on tuesday and yes seeing Mina with the kneebar/pad in the photo did prompt me to post but not because she's a girl.. anyway she's a beast not a girl.

[Stubbs]

There have been a lot of mutterings about whether the knee is on or not

Can you take this statement in isolation and look at how ridiculous it is?!  I can see people getting tunnel vision by spending too long at one crag but this is crazy.  Perhaps each route at the tor should have a laminated card at the start informing you which holds and/or techniques are disallowed if you would like to make a legitimate ascent?

Dave Graham at his talk in Sheffield a few years ago said that kneebars and kneepads were the future and should be thought of as an option on all routes and problems.  This is apparent in the climbing he has done since, and I think it has probably opened the door for a lot of climbs that would otherwise have not been possible.

[monkey boy]

I know this isn't an attack on Mina's ascent but here is my tuppence worth.

Some people do get a lot back in the arms from the knee bar but its drains you in other ways i.e. your core and body strength. Also as Duma says leg length does play a part in how much help a knee bar can be. Mina actually fell off from the top of the groove because she tried to recover in the knee bar for too long. She got very little back because she didn't fit it that well. I think on her ascent she was in it for maybe 10 seconds at the most. Hardly a rest!

However she knew that when she did Mecca there would be whisperings of a down grade! She thought it was amazing climbing and she made it look a damn sight eaiser than a lot of people I have seen on it. I reckon some big names have done Mecca and the 8b+ seems to have stood the test of time. In my opinion there should be more praise for the ascent, it's a bloody fine effort!

When the footage appears of it we can all see!

[shark]

I know this isn't an attack on Mina's ascent but here is my tuppence worth.

Some people do get a lot back in the arms from the knee bar but its drains you in other ways i.e. your core and body strength. Also as Duma says leg length does play a part in how much help a knee bar can be. Mina actually fell off from the top of the groove because she tried to recover in the knee bar for too long. She got very little back because she didn't fit it that well. I think on her ascent she was in it for maybe 10 seconds at the most. Hardly a rest!

However she knew that when she did Mecca there would be whisperings of a down grade! She thought it was amazing climbing and she made it look a damn sight eaiser than a lot of people I have seen on it. I reckon some big names have done Mecca and the 8b+ seems to have stood the test of time. In my opinion their should be more praise for the ascent, it's a bloody fine effort!

When the footage appears of it we can all see!

Hi Dave,

Better out in the open rather than whisperings. Thanks for the detail. Sounds like the kneebar didnt help her at all. I  hope it is 8b+ still. FWIW (very little!) pass on my praise. I thought it was impressive Lucinda doing a burly route like the Oak. Mina doing Mecca takes it to another level.

Simon
Cheers, Simon

[Nibile]

Not the best timing for your post, Shark!!!
 

[shark]

Not the best timing for your post, Shark!!!
 

 

[north_country_boy]

To quote cjd from another thread....

"Its the same old British story really - lets give people negative feedback for cool bits of climbing, and bicker until everything is 7c+, one of the main reasons why international standards are increasing with great and fun scenes, and we are all becoming known as a nation of grumpy know it all cnuts, still stuck where we were 10 years ago."

Awesome Effort Mina! 

[monkey boy]

Hi Dave,

Better out in the open rather than whisperings. Thanks for the detail. Sounds like the kneebar didnt help her at all. I  hope it is 8b+ still. FWIW (very little!) pass on my praise. I thought it was impressive Lucinda doing a burly route like the Oak. Mina doing Mecca takes it to another level.

Simon
Cheers, Simon

Agreed, definitely better than whispers and like I said we have joked about it! The footage will be brilliant and Nick will be putting a short together I think.

[Jaspersharpe]

 

This is total bollocks. It's The Tor, virtually every route / problem has changed a bit since it was first done. IIRC some decent holds have fallen off Mecca since the first ascent(s) so if a not amazing kneebar is now used so what? It just redresses the balance a bit. The fact that this is being mentioned because Mina has done it leaves a very bad taste.

Maybe we should regrade everything. Make It Funky down to 8b+ (well loads of people have done it) and Hubble down to 8c so it all makes sense........... oh no it's probably 9a in comparison to similar routes elsewhere.

Fuck's sake! 

[Jules L]

I don't want to get involved in the grade debate, but I just wanted to say what an absolutely amazing effort it was by Mina. Seriously impressive. I bet she crushed it too! That's what everyone should be talking about, not the knee bars.

[El Mocho]

props to Mina for doing this.

I did Mecca without the knee bar about 7 or 8 years ago (before the knee bar was as popular as it is now) and have also been on it now and again since - and tried the knee bar (although sans sticky pad) I didn't find it much of a help (and am a similar size to Mina) but I could see that the rubber would make it a bit more secure (although the foot hold is still wack).

I have seen people really work the knee bar - Ryan and Jon, both strong, talented and tall - but they made the whole thing look piss (both doing the extensions).

Its probably fair to say that if the knee bar fits for you Mecca is a little easier than if it doesn't, and if you wear a sticky knee pad it is also a little easier but I think still 8b+. The knee bar has always been there and I know people who used it years ago - the reason I didn't is like I said above I didn't find it helped me.

I also kinda agree with JB (and that Dave G kid) that we need to embrace new technology as it comes along - don't downgrade everything just because boots, or whatever, have got better.

If there are certain routes/problems where it makes a massive difference compared to other routes then we may need to downgrade.  On JBs stag do we were all on some 7C some place in font and the crux slap up an arete went to a move I could chalk on with a sticky knee pad - more like 7B...

[monkey boy]

I don't want to get involved in the grade debate, but I just wanted to say what an absolutely amazing effort it was by Mina. Seriously impressive. I bet she crushed it too! That's what everyone should be talking about, not the knee bars.

Exactly!!

[SA Chris]

Just checking the url.

it definitely says ukbouldering, not ukclimbing.

As Nibile says, you could have timed this post better Shark. Almost worth a puntering.

Kneebarring is a new(ish) technique that is being utilised where it can, like dropped knees, dynoing, spragging, and jamming before it the climb hasn't got easier its just the approach to climbing it that has evolved.

Also is this any different from following a regimented training plan, using a beastmaker, waiting for good conditions, or redpointing? They make being able to climb the route easier, but the route itself is essentially unchanged.

As Jules L, and several others have said, a superlative effort.

[Nigel]

Personally I'd say leg length makes more difference than pads to most knee bars, and since IME so long as you fit into the knee bar, the longer the better, Mina's on pretty safe ground.

Duma is spot on RE leg length. First time I ever saw Mecca done with a kneebar was Smitton, and he was camping out on it in just a pair of jeans. As was Ryan. First time I ever went up, without a kneepad, I couldn't even get a decent kneebar to fit cos my legs were too short, they weren't worth the effort of putting in i.e. would have made it harder. Second time I took a kneepad and it felt great. On the flipside I've seen Ryan try the same kneepad and he couldn't fit his leg in anymore!

Overall its a good sequence if you can make them work, kneepads help for this, and they are legit (is anyone really saying they aren't?!). Better technology (?!) makes no difference, its just a spacer to make your leg fit, you get the same effect rolling your trousers up (seen this done).

Does it change the grade? Don't know I'm too shit to do it either way, but as folk say if Mawsons didn't downgrade then probably not.

Amazing effort Mina, one of the greats. 

[shark]

As Nibile says, you could have timed this post better Shark. Almost worth a puntering.

Go ahead I deserve it.

Sorry Mina

 

[monkey boy]

Just checking the url.

it definitely says ukbouldering, not ukclimbing.

At least it is up on this url, UKC seem to be a little behind here!! 

[abarro81]

What Dan said.

On the point of kneepads, they're here to stay, almost everyone in loup was climbing in a pair. Incidentally, the 5.10 ones are way better than the cava ones, only issue is when the rock is close to your knee the rubber wont cover it so there are some knees better with neoprene or homemade pads which can sit lower.

Well done mina!

[Plattsy]

Is this some sort of troll bingo thread Shark cos I call house.
Significant route at a significant crag close to a significant climbing community with technique different to original sequence resulting in rumours of a down grade recently climbed by a woman.
Jesus H fucking Christ...


Well done Mina!