[Fiend]

Very much in the idle speculation realm of topics

I am musing on what routes around England and Wales I would really like to do and aspire to do, which might not be the same was what other people aspire to do, and am wondering what I might have missed out off my list (see below)

The rules:

1. NO big long uphill walk-ins.
2. No "once great but now overgrown" stuff (that means YOU Tap Y Gigfran and Craig Y Hryddod).
3. Preferably not stuff that is super-conditionsy-sea-cliff-greasy.
4. Preferably not stuff that involves massive anti-Fiend reaches or spans.
5. Preferably not stuff that is really hard to find on obscure slopes and hidden abseils.

This is what I have so far:

Cornwall:
Longships Wall
Antennae

North Devon:

Carn Gowla:
America
Halcyon Days
Pentire Point:
Black Magic
Darkinbad The Brightdayler
Reflections
Half Dome:
Creeping Flesh
Blackchurch:
Godspell
Baggy Point:
Soft Touch

South Devon:
Sanctuary Wall:
Call To Arms
False Gods

South Wales:
Pembroke:
No routes in particular.

Mid Wales:
Bird Rock:
Diamond Eliminate
Craig Y Llam:
Tyburn Gate
Moelwyns:
Crimson Cruiser
Non-Dairy Creamer
Nesscliffe:
Jump
Cones & Coronets

North Wales:
Lleyn:
Manx Groove
Byzantium
Direct Hit
Path To Rome
Hyll-Drem:
King Kong
Samurai Groove
Cloggy (by train in a day w/bribed second):
Great Wall
The Axe
The Boldest
Gogarth:
Warpath
Rhapsody Of The Deep
Pagan

Lake District:
Dry Grasp
The Cumbrian
Wheels Of Fire

Northumberland:
First Born
Poseidon Adventure
Endless Flight
On The Verge

......obviously there are some shocking honeypot Rockfax Top 50 type trade routes on there but overall it should give an idea of what inspires me. I prefer Torbay limestone to Pembroke limestone, and find Mid-Wales more interesting than North Wales, and I like quarries 

Stuff wot I have done:
Long Quarry Point, Bass Point, Sharpnose, Cow & Calf, Hartland, Kellan Head, Rhinnogs, Craig Y Mwn, Berwynion, Craig Cwyarch, other South Stack cliffs, other Rhoscolyn routes, Pass / Ogwen / Slate classics, most of the accessible Lakes stuff (Reecastle Black Crag Goat Crag Dow Slate etc), Armathwaite, etc etc.

Hit me with the ideas then...

[tomtom]

Pex

[Hoseyb]

Taith Mawr 

[Pantontino]

East Face of the Vivian E2/3 multi level link up. Great slatey fun with a few options/variations. Almost zero walk in, and a walk down the steps afterwards.

[Pantontino]

Fantasia on Red Wall is excellent (I'm assuming you've done Red Wall).

[chris j]

In the South Devon category I presume you've done Dreadnaught, or else it's been dismissed because the walk-in is too far.

Incidentally if you're down this way and fancy another go at Sanctuary Wall look me up & I'll provide a bit more moral support and not be quite so keen to wuss out next time...

[quiffhanger]

Don't forget about Dorset!

Lean Machine is possibly my favourite (and definitely pumpiest) E5 ever. Do it, War of the Worlds & Ocean Boulevard the same day and you'll be grinning ear-ear. Walk in is ~30mins but flat. Mother Africa is good 2 but a sandbag. Can suffer a bit from the grease but not majorly if they've had some sun on them. got plenty more for you get the Swanage bug.

No gritstone?

PS: I think they're all 3*/Top50 in the guidebook but Swanage is pretty off-piste in it's entirety so they should qualify

[csl]

The Axe is mega, definitely do it!

Other good pitches around the grade in the area.

How about Rimsky Korsakov, What a difference a day Makes and El Guide Direct at Cwm Clas Bach. 

For Pembroke, routes i've enjoyed have been Star Wars and Bloody Sunday.

[Fiend]

Done Pex.

Pretty sure I did Dreadnaught with you, Chris!

I did Wendigo rather than Red Wall, I prefered the line.

Cwm Glas Bach is a good call, greased off Weasels before but not done much else.

Swanage doesn't inspire me that much i.e. at all but those that you listed would be good choices if I was forced to go there!

[chris j]

Could be, I know I've been up Dreadnaught at least twice, the slightly intense memory of reaching and then falling off the 1st belay when 2nding Shark (when I will admit to being just a little out of my depth) tends to crowd out the other ascents. I do remember a biting cold belay on the 2nd pitch of Renegade at LQP and some Torbryan action which you grudgingly admitted was better than you'd expected...

[tomtom]

Done Pex.

More sherioushly, from my time living in Mid Wales, I wouldnt go to Bird Rock again.. and much of the stuff in the Moelwyns was very very dirty (and with bit walk ins) when I checked it out.. BUT, some of the big multi-pitches on Cadiar Idris looked mega - Culfi arete was the only one I did (big V Diff IIRC..).. might be some more stuff on there to check out? (bout an hour walk in though - but on good paths etc..)

Cromlech classics?

[Johnny Brown]

At Doris Wanton Desire is better than Direct Hit - very similar climbing but slightly harder. Trends right at half-height to gain a thin crack which takes you to the headwall in a splendid no man's land. Direct hit is a tad vague and escapable.

Why isn't Vulture on your list?

What have you already done at Nesscliffe? Marlene is a good warm-up for Cones and currents at soft E4, but there are plenty more.

[andy popp]

This is probably going to make horrify a lot of people but I think Avon is an essential experience and offers huge amounts at mid-extreme.

[crimp]

The central tower routes at spion kop quarry in forest of Dean fits your bill. Mid extremes, 30m high quarried sandstone, off piste for sure.

[Fiend]

Chris: I do apologise for any frostbite/hypothermia on Renegade and really appreciate you doing those routes with me, it was very rewarding.

Tomtom: I've been to a lot of the Moelwyn crags and had a good time. Cader does have some very inspiring looking stuff but I think the walk-in will be too much.

JB: Vulture isn't on my list because I'm sure you promised to do it with me but surely I couldn't drag a sensible dad over there for a "death for both members of the party route" :p . Will take note of Wanton Desire, also the routes around the Jacuzzi sound cool. I've done Marlene (good fun), Bruce Hooper (sketchy) and Straight Talk (harder than Marlene).

Andy:  BUT Arm's Race and the one next to it should be on my list, I like that upper wall.

Adge: Eeeek, Pylon King territory, I'm sure he's going to give me a tour at some point  again.

[andy popp]

Now I'm all hurt 

[Fiend]

You're right, there is a woeful lack of Cheshire Sandstone on my list. But I've led the leadable Pex ones, The Brush Off scares me, and, errr....oh there is some roof crack up the top of Helsby, right. And the wall right of Flake Crack.

[andy popp]

Is Houghton accessible now? Rhodedendron Buttress and Boudicca (sp?) are both brilliant.

[jern]

Your forgot a couple in Cornwall:

Cain at Pordenack Point

Kafoozalem & Raven Wall at Bosigran

Mastodon at Carn Gloose is great too.

And at Cheddar:

Ahimsa - amazing 2nd pitch

Maybe they're all a bit mainstream - but is that really bad?

[andy popp]

Good call, Ahimsa is fucking brilliant!

[shurt]

I would give a 3rd vote to Ahimsa its really good, Dream Cruise link up also good on that wall.
The Cornish Granite I would add Grendel and The Ghost at Bosigran and Swift Flight of Fancy at Sennen. It's beyond me why Kafoozalem gets E3 its harder and left me a broken man.
Again quite mainstream but as well as Arms Race (alredy mentioned) Yellow Edge and Ladder of Desire are good Avon ticks.

[crimp]

Andy:  BUT Arm's Race and the one next to it should be on my list, I like that upper wall.

Them used to be brilliant, one of the best pitches at that grade in Britain. No idea whether it is still there or fallen down ... it's been a long time.

arms race is still standing, unlike a large part of wall round corner. Still gets 3 stars.

And don't forget it's traditional to take a bike up that slab with you and have a maniac cycle back down it.

[TobyD]

Andy:  BUT Arm's Race and the one next to it should be on my list, I like that upper wall.

if you don't mind bold, last slip is an essential Avon experience. I had a prejudice that it was all awful, but the mutilpitch things on unknown wall are actually bloody good: proper british adventurous feeling routes with a zero walk in, plenty of exposure interesting rock, and you top out into a park with an ice cream van, what could be better?

warpath is ok, but there are dozens of massively superior routes at gogarth of a similar difficulty... if you want a really, really easy e5 though, you're onto a winner ;-)

[Teaboy]

Castell Cidwm has a couple of routes you might be interested in, possibly not a short walk in mostly flt along a lake IIRC. In that area is Criag Cwm Pennant and
Exterminating Angel is as good as its reputation and the route next to it (description in 1st edition of North Wales Rock slightly wrong for this), again it's not a short walk (can't remember details sorry)  but not arduous.

Crafnant is another must visit but unfortunatly the walk in is steep towards the end. On the subject of routes that have too big a walk in I need to mention Hyndsight as it is the best route I've ever done in Wales and someone else might be interested. If you are in the area for Crimson Cruiser then Green Wall is also very good, I've not done Nosferatu but is said to be similar.

I'm surprised you mention Pagan as, short walk aside, this seems the opposite of what you have always aspired to if I remember rightly from old UKC threads.

Criag Arthur is good, long flat walk in then short steep bit to the crag.

Be sure to report back on anything good you find in Merionydd as I'd be keen to get over to the Rhinogs if I knew things were as good as the guide makes out.

I notice you haven't got Burnt Crag in your 'done' list, if that's not an oversight then you should get out there, again the walk in is pretty flat for a mountain area.

I was tempted by Elvis at Middle Scout in Langdale, it looks ok but the warm ups were wet on Saturday and they really do look like warm ups rather than anything you'd want to actually climb.

Gowther? Short walk, good routes, close to the motorway if you are on your way somewhere, beware Bloodhound, I backed off.

Is Gimmer too far? Equus might be the best route I've done in the Lakes

[duncan]

Andy:  BUT Arm's Race and the one next to it should be on my list, I like that upper wall.

Them used to be brilliant, one of the best pitches at that grade in Britain. No idea whether it is still there or fallen down ... it's been a long time.

Them is great and the Upper Wall is still very much alive. If you're feeling fit you could try The Ramp Challenge! (a fine piece by Charlie Woodburn). Over on the bigger bit just to the left Amanita Muscarina is one of the best routes of it's grade in England. It has had it's peg replaced recently but the area doesn't appear to have been opened up again after the rockfall further left again.  There is nothing currently on the RAD.

The major downside of Avon climbing is the traffic. The portway is closed occasionally on Sundays for descaling work and annually for the Bristol half-marathon (15th Sept this year). It's well worth timing a visit to coincide with this.

More later!