[Omar15]

I can't believe some people are actively campaigning to keep a featured resin wall. I'm so glad it's going. Hopefully The Castle might actually buy some new holds too, and not use the same hideous incut crimps and 3 greasy core slopers on every single problem they set.

The wave board is incredible though.

[webbo]

I know you don't like the place Tom ( Too hard, Not trendy enough ) However I would be buggered if there more than 50 to 100 active climbers in the Hull area. So why target a wall strictly for climbers.

[andy_e]

The problem with most walls these days, as highlighted by Omar15, is the poor choice of holds available for route setters can make it difficult for route setters to set realistic routes which may be found outdoors. At the Leeds Wall, all the holds are crimps and it's brilliant for getting really strong shoulders, fingers and dynamic power and coupled with inventive use of volumes for roof and steep work requiring Brimham-esque technique also made brilliant training for the grit. It's a similar story at CityBloc but with more slopers and poor edges. Most other walls I've been to seem to have spent their entire budget on massive crap blobby slopers which usually have to be pinched in order to get any grip on them. All this does is make you good at big slopey pinches which you only find indoors and doesn't transfer well to outdoors where there are generally far fewer massive blobby pinchy slopers.

[Stubbs]

I like climbing on crimps because I'm good at it, I therefore prefer walls that use crimps.  When I go to walls where there are more pinches I get spanked, so I think these walls are rubbish.

 

[andy_e]

Well, my finger strength has dropped off massively since moving away from Leeds and it's affected my ability to hold gritty holds so in my opinion massive blobby pinches (which I can now hold onto all day long) are crap training for outdoors.

[Stubbs]

More seriously, I agree completely re: hold choice - ply walls are a blank canvas and it is down to the setters and the owners how good the problems end up being.  It's also down to the customers to give constructive feedback where necessary; have you told your wall that you think they could do with buying some crimps?

[andy_e]

To be fair, no, but it'll be next on the list after persuading them to build a woody!

[abarro81]

All this does is make you good at big slopey pinches which you only find indoors and doesn't transfer well to outdoors where there are generally far fewer massive blobby pinchy slopers.

You should climb on tufas more.

[mr__j5]

I don't have a strong preference either way, but do boulder at the Foundry a bit more than the Works.

One advantage that the featured walls like the wave have, is that there is a number of possibilities for your feet. This means that the problems can work better for a large range of heights.

[andy_e]

All this does is make you good at big slopey pinches which you only find indoors and doesn't transfer well to outdoors where there are generally far fewer massive blobby pinchy slopers.

You should climb on tufas more.

There don't tend to be tufas on grit boulders...

[abarro81]

That doesn't make pinches bad training though does it. Just bad training for grit boulderers. I pinched a bunch of holds at Malham at the weekend. (Though you're right, there are to many shitty blobby holds at most walls)

Anyway, we all know that the wave is best bouldering wall in the world if you're training for routes.

[John Gillott]

I've trained and played on and off indoors at The Castle since the day it first opened, so have got rather used to the featured wall that is now no more (in its present location and perhaps form). As time has gone by I've spent less and less time on it, for various reasons, but one being that the rest of the place has got better. It depends to an extent of course on what one thinks of as outdoor climbing, but, for example, the slab problems are often excellent training for outdoor problems and routes of a similar kind. On the steeper areas there are plenty of holds of different kinds that can, with a bit of imagination, be used to develop finger strength in whatever way one fancies. Where The Castle and perhaps many other wall do fall down is in relation one issue Duncan raises - technical problems with crappy intermediates and dodgy feet. The slab has some of these to an extent, and there are some downstairs, sometimes. The Works in Sheffield is much better for this kind think, helped by the fact that all their surfaces are smooth / slippery forcing you to use the set holds most of the time.

But, overall, get a sense of perspective. As someone whose first regular wall was the Sheffield YMCA in the 1970s I'm inclined to say that on the contrary modern climbing walls are

[Muenchener]

ply walls are a blank canvas and it is down to the setters and the owners how good the problems end up being. 

  My biggest local wall, owned by the DAV, has two bouldering rooms. Both plywood panels with bolt-ons, but they couldn't be more different. The new one is modern style dynoing between blobs; the old one is densely covered with smallish crimps, tiny foot jibs etc. There are only a few predefined problems and all of them are feet-on-jibs. The new one is always busier; the old one is both better training and more fun. This is not only my opinion but also that of the Bavarian youth comp team, who are to be found in the old room several evenings a week.

[moose]

One advantage that the featured walls like the wave have, is that there is a number of possibilities for your feet. This means that the problems can work better for a large range of heights.

Depends on the featured wall - I often find the opposite.  Many problems at the likes of the Foundry, seem to rely upon using the one good smear amidst the expanse of slick bulges (which always seems leave me badly bunched-up).  Decent ply walls often have a scattering of tiny screw-on foot jibs to suit a range of heights. 

Agree though about the plague of jump-between-the-slopey-pinches problems at many walls.  With the crap weather at the moment I am very grateful for the Depot's wooden crimp circuit.

[andy_e]

Decent ply walls often have a scattering of tiny screw-on foot jibs to suit a range of heights. 

This is why I like the Leeds Wall bouldering so much, there's always plenty of choice between the footholds on the problem and the green screw-ons for feet which allows all sorts of sequences to be concocted.

[TerryLines]

FWIW my disagreement with the Castle replacing the featured wall with a plywood comp wall isn't really to do with the merits of resin versus plywood, as I agree that setting and hold choice can replicate a wide range of problems, but more that it further limits training possibilities at an already limited venue.

That resin wall was perfect for doing slower technical climbing, and various power-endurance/endurance circuits on. You could knacker yourself on the steeper parts and then try to find recovery positions and shake out. This was pretty important given they only have a handful of 12m walls which get very busy, so doing laps on them always feels unfair on other users.

Instead they've decided to add a steep bouldering wall to go with the 3 they've already got. I'm willing to bet the problems will fundamentally be repeats on what they set on those walls. This is in addition to London's newest wall being focused on this sort of steep bouldering.  It's great if that's all you are interested in climbing outdoors, but not everyone is. On the otherhand there are only about a dozen boulder problems in the entire gym above v3 which aren't on overhangs, and 4 of those are crap traverses.

This just allows them to get more people through the doors in a venue that is filled to capacity every night.

[Stubbs]

... It's great if that's all you are interested in climbing outdoors, but not everyone is. On the otherhand there are only about a dozen boulder problems in the entire gym above v3 which aren't on overhangs, and 4 of those are crap traverses.

I've seen good gains in overall strength that can be applied to vert problems from almost exclusively climbing on steeper angles (> 10 degrees).  I've never been convinced that to get better at vert climbing outdoors you need to climb on that angle indoors.

[gme]

They are a business so surely the whole point is to get more people through the doors.

The idea of a privately funded wall as some kind of an altrusitic service to climbers is a non starter. Sounds like they are keeping a majority of paying customers what they want and trying to get new ones. Unfortunately if they loose a few along the way so be it. As long as numbers go up its a success.

I really cant believe that people still think that these walls are built to keep us entertained and help our climbing progress.

[jmews]

Since climbing in gyms abroad where setters use coloured tape to mark problems and routes, I have started to wonder why uk gyms insist on setting solely by hold colour. This does tend to limit the types of hold available for a given route.


 This also works well with more densely set routes on ply, as setters can add more holds (preferably small feet etc.) to a given wall space, and then use tape marking to set multiple problems using the same holds.

[webbo]

Decent ply walls often have a scattering of tiny screw-on foot jibs to suit a range of heights. 

This is why I like the Leeds Wall bouldering so much, there's always plenty of choice between the footholds on the problem and the green screw-ons for feet which allows all sorts of sequences to be concocted.

God thats so 2011 you know, things have moved on bouldering wise in West Yorkshire.

They are grey these days.

[andy_e]

  Glad management haven't binned them off entirely!

[Muenchener]

Since climbing in gyms abroad in the States (?) where setters use coloured tape to mark problems and routes, I have started to wonder why uk gyms insist on setting solely by hold colour.

I've seen - only from photos - that coloured tape is the norm in the US. Most walls in Germany/Austria set by hold colour just like in the UK.

Interestingly enough, the only two I've seen that don't - Thalkirchen in Munich and Tivoli in Innsbruck - are ones where high level comp teams train. They use lots & lots of holds, lots of tiny foot jibs, and tape a few set problems but mostly just leave people to use their (or their coach's) initiative.

[webbo]

Since climbing in gyms abroad where setters use coloured tape to mark problems and routes, I have started to wonder why uk gyms insist on setting solely by hold colour. This does tend to limit the types of hold available for a given route.


 This also works well with more densely set routes on ply, as setters can add more holds (preferably small feet etc.) to a given wall space, and then use tape marking to set multiple problems using the same holds.

Just looking at pictures of these walls gives me a headache. I suspect setting like this is easier for the route setter.i.e they just shove a load of holds in a bag with a roll of tape, rather plan what they going to set.

[Wood FT]

Since climbing in gyms abroad where setters use coloured tape to mark problems and routes, I have started to wonder why uk gyms insist on setting solely by hold colour. This does tend to limit the types of hold available for a given route.


 This also works well with more densely set routes on ply, as setters can add more holds (preferably small feet etc.) to a given wall space, and then use tape marking to set multiple problems using the same holds.

Just looking at pictures of these walls gives me a headache. I suspect setting like this is easier for the route setter.i.e they just shove a load of holds in a bag with a roll of tape, rather plan what they going to set.

+1, makes it look like the the bloody wailing wall

[moose]

Problem with using tape/tags to label problems is that it can go missing. Leading to ages spent working out unlikely matching / hand-swap sequences before an in-the-know  local puts you out of your misery. 

That said, coloured holds are no guarantee of identifiable problems.  Last time I went to Leeds Wall, there were two areas that each accommodated a grey problem, a black, and a white.... which all looked grey.  The lighting was on the blink too which didn't help the colour matching process!