[TomP]

It does grow over very quickly in the woods. I'm not saying that most of what you have done isn't new, I'm sure some of them are but the main lines there were climbed many years ago.

As for Banana Republic that certainly was a new problem, a very tough Font8a. If you are getting your info from the old ACD guide, Banana Split (the stand up version) was in there. It was a "penciled in" problem (meaning noted in the guide but never actually climbed - there are many example of such problems in that guide). It was given the ridiculous grade of V4, which it clearly was not.  No one knew of the problem, no one had climbed the problem. If you know who did said problem in the 90s that's be great to hear and why say now rather than the time of the first ascent? I have to say I'm a bit insulted by you suggesting that I knew it had been climbed before but I still claimed it. if you want to talk more about it I'd probably be best to PM me rather than let another thread go

[NathanS]

I think we are getting a bit off the point and moving somewhere noone wants to go with this. Can someone with the right skills and chemicals please stabilise the hold. No disrespect to Robin as a developer of new areas and problems but what happens if it is left as it is? We lose a hold and end up with a scar. Why would anyone want that? It has to be a be a no brainer.

[tomtom]

  fix the hold & the "who climbed what when" is all getting a bit UKC...

[Johnny Brown]

I'm also sorry to say that those new problems have been done at Caley quite a few years ago. I'm not sure who by origonaly but for some reason the were never recorded.

Ha! Welcome to yorkshire...   

[TomP]

  ain't no room for Cocktalk here. Couldn't let that little dig pass - apologies, should have held my tongue......erm......fingers.

There is obviously no rock police or governing body so people are free to do as they choose but with respect for the crag and climbing population. If the general consensus is to fix the hold then so be it - this is a democratic society afterall (?) and the overwhelming reaction is to get it sorted. Who is THE CHOSEN ONE or maybe they want to remain anonymous?

[GCW]

I think it would be a terrible shame if some anonymous person with good knowledge of repairing holds were to sneak there and fix it without anyone knowing.  Scandalous.

[Jim]

I think its widely accepted that repairs to this sort of hold are invisible and so far don't seem to cause any side effects either so why all the umming and arring?
Its either this or a crumbled hold that will look hideous and make the problem shit.
Has some one got an expenses form for a duck house in their pond?

[Johnny Brown]

I'd say the potential consequences of inaction are rather worse than those of action.

[Pantontino]

Ed Brown's pride and joy in danger!!!?

Get it repaired - done properly no-one will even notice.

[Will Hunt]

Fair arguments there. Just be careful (of course I'm sure whoever does it will do a great job).

[dingbat]

sorry Tom, I may have given you some upsetting news, but the standing start on the arete was done by JP, he never claimed it, as no one did then! I do also think that your efforts were fantastic and the amount of time you spent on the said problem, you deserve to be noted for its reserection. Really it should not be about first ascents, but the fact that we are offering people new/forgotten places or problems, for their enjoyment. Kudos is ugly and is never the best suite, only to be worn by the needy, after all !

[TomP]

It was the suggestion of me knowing that it had already been climbed but still claiming it which upset me, not that it had been done before. I never knew JP had done it until yesterday. I'm not too bothered as the sitter is the proper line.
Anyway, I agree with your sentiment and no hard feelings.

Let's keep this thread on topic

[Iesu]

ain't no room for Cocktalk here. Couldn't let that little dig pass - apologies, should have held my tongue......erm......fingers.

There is obviously no rock police or governing body so people are free to do as they choose but with respect for the crag and climbing population. If the general consensus is to fix the hold then so be it - this is a democratic society afterall (?) and the overwhelming reaction is to get it sorted. Who is THE CHOSEN ONE or maybe they want to remain anonymous?

"...there can be ONLY ONE....."



ahem

I reckon whoever "fixes" it should chip the edge off the hold (juggy as it is now with the patina edge and worn away soft crumbly stuff) and stabilise it back to the tiniest imaginable crimp - surely this is how nature intended this hold to be. After all, it's not as if these boulders have been formed by the gradual erosive environmental processes acting over thousands of years on sand and pebbles laid down underwater millennia ago is it?

I don't know where i'm going with this sorry

it's got easier - it'll get worse (not sure if i necessarily agree with the visual impairment for non-climbers, don't know if my ladyfriend would notice?)

... so someone please fix it. i'd be willing to contribute to chemical expenses

[Pantontino]

sorry Tom, I may have given you some upsetting news, but the standing start on the arete was done by JP, he never claimed it, as no one did then!

Sorry for going off topic, but this struck me as a strange thing to say. Which period of history are you referring to? The JP I used to climb with at Almscliff in the early 90s was dead keen on establishing the historical record, he even ran a website on Yorkshire bouldering for a while.

This was a period when the first dedicated bouldering guides appeared - as I recall everyone was spreading information about what they had done. Even Streaky's generation seemed pretty on the ball about who had done what. The idea that no-one claimed first ascents is bogus.

(NB. I'm not saying he didn't do the stand up - he was always very talented and no doubt capable of such an act - just that in this exception perhaps he didn't bother claiming it because, as Tom points out, he knew that the sitter was the real deal?)

[Rob F]

Few pointers relating to this thread- Thought we'd had an amnesty on counter claiming on YG when Jon decided to restart his webpage last autumn....

The problem with Yorkshire bouldering is that there has always been the presumption that everything has already been done particularly so at Caley I'd say with Fawcett, Manson, Desroy, Swann, Rhodes etc being major earlier pioneers. Hence people haven't tended to claim easier problems and the newbies documented in The Thing by Si Panton et al. in the 90's were claimed as definite firsts in light of the Rhodes guidebook and the Desroy guide.

The main references that come to mind for documentation of boulder problems in Yorkshire are the few pics in the Fawcett on Rock book, the Desroy circuits (is it perhaps a beneign bumble?), Rhodes guide, The Thing articles, Cameron Duff guide, Dunning Guide and online yg.com and JP Hotham http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.geocities.com/yorkshireboulder/ Unfortuately I haven't got these to hand today and me internet is going superslow but will have a look through the archives when i can.

Anyways the real issue of this thread is when is someone going to get the superglue out to stabilise Hetchell, most of Brimham etc etc etc etc etc etc.

Well its a lovely day so I'm off out before it gets too warm to get on my latest project- with lay down start of course ;>)

[slackline]

The main references that come to mind for documentation of boulder problems in Yorkshire are the few pics in the Fawcett on Rock book, the Desroy circuits (is it perhaps a beneign bumble?), Rhodes guide, The Thing articles, Cameron Duff guide, Dunning Guide and online yg.com and JP Hotham http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.geocities.com/yorkshireboulder/ Unfortuately I haven't got these to hand today and me internet is going superslow but will have a look through the archives when i can.

I've a copy of "Wild Bouldering in Yorkshire" (1997) by Tony Barley and Nigel Baker that has sections on history if anyone is interested in details (I might be arsed to read and repeat or transcribe shit).

[priscilla wimbush]

Few pointers relating to this thread- Thought we'd had an amnesty on counter claiming on YG when Jon decided to restart his webpage last autumn....

Did we? Does that mean YG can decree the FAist contrary to popop and folklore? 

The main references that come to mind for documentation of boulder problems in Yorkshire are the few pics in the Fawcett on Rock book, the Desroy circuits (is it perhaps a beneign bumble?), Rhodes guide, The Thing articles, Cameron Duff guide, Dunning Guide and online yg.com and JP Hotham http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.geocities.com/yorkshireboulder/

Also the old UKB database, and JW's and UTG's excellent and comprehensive lists.

Anyways the real issue of this thread is when is someone going to get the superglue out to stabilise Hetchell, most of Brimham etc etc etc etc etc etc.

No superglue please - we've covered this before, professional jobs require professional solutions. And IMHO anyone doing any form of rock repair MUST have the balls to stick their name in the line of fire (good examples being BJ, N@W, CD, that Churnet shizzle, Mecca, Ground effect etc) for accountability and justifications. Let's not have anymore anonymous 'tube' waving please.

[Rob F]

Ooops that may have looked like I was condoning repair. I'm on the leave it alone side- just highlighting one of the methods of repair that had been suggested + once you start tampering with one problem in a certain way where do you end? Just go and find something else to climb there's plenty out there.

Oh and another couple of more recents to add to list of caley devotees Clifford, Birch

[GCW]

No superglue please - we've covered this before, professional jobs require professional solutions.

Since when was superglue considered a poor solution?  For small repair, it's still the best if done properly.

[dingbat]

when all is said and done, when all the shouting and philosophizing and moralizing is over, I suspect that this topic is simply another example of something.

[robertostallioni]

when all is said and done, when all the shouting and philosophizing and moralizing is over, I suspect that this topic is simply another example of something.

There's another T-shirt/Hoodie right there.

[NathanS]

once you start tampering with one problem in a certain way where do you end? Just go and find something else to climb there's plenty out there.

'Tampering' on grit should be restricted to cleaning and preserving what is there. No chipping or such like. There is no reason for this to become the ethical slippery slope you suggest.

I don't believe that there is plenty out there and for a simple fix it can be preserved and still be climbed on. So why not?

[Probes]

I suspect that this topic is simply another example of something.

genius, a man after my own heart, that vision and clarity to see the world for what it is.

[Rob F]

I don't believe that there is plenty out there and for a simple fix it can be preserved and still be climbed on. So why not?


Plenty of action to be had at the Glen and Caley etc trying things sans chips. Chiseller at Ilkley is good if you like slabs.

Just didn't want to end up with another Cuvier...

[andy_e]

Shit, are people meeting up at caley to bum now?