[andy_e]

If it turns white it'll look just like normal 

[c.j.d.]

Fucking hell, this thread will have Ed Brown shuffling in his fluffy slippers.

6c, always has been, always will.  I was here with Katzy San a couple of weeks ago - its the same.

What's a Pedant -  I'm guessing some form of insect?  Possibly it was a Pedant chewing its way through the crystals of grit, making the hold seem slightly larger.  Paul B - maybe the grains you felt where Pedant excrement.  Should have brushed the holds.

[Paul B]

Fucking hell, this thread will have Ed Brown shuffling in his fluffy slippers.

6c, always has been, always will.  I was here with Katzy San a couple of weeks ago - its the same.

What's a Pedant -  I'm guessing some form of insect?  Possibly it was a Pedant chewing its way through the crystals of grit, making the hold seem slightly larger.  Paul B - maybe the grains you felt where Pedant excrement.  Should have brushed the holds.

I'm taking from this last post that you actually have CJD. Fucking hilarious 

[uptown]

I've just spat a funny-mouth all over my keyboard! 
Lipasphere - we need the Stallion.
I have said chemicals and can 'trip' the chevin next week at some time if the said problem doesn't vaporise 'til then.
Answer my frickin' texts nemo!

[GCW]

Nemo doesn't answer texts as it costs him money.

[andy_e]

a'ight holmes, give me time to get to my phone, jeez louise.

[Duncan Disorderly]

I tried this about 5 years ago and couldn't do it....

Did it second go on Saturday... Was a bit disapointed to be honest, was expecting a bit of a fight.. The gaston/crimp felt massive! Don't remember it being this big before... I was a bit gutted really as it's been on my to-do list for ages and although the move off this hold to the sloper is good it's nowhere near 7a IMO...

I also did the pinch which felt just as hard...

Dunno what this means...

[Scouse D]

Lipasphere ? That's a made up word if ever I heard one.

[tomtom]

Lipasphere ? That's a made up word if ever I heard one.

Its like the hydroshpere, or cryosphere, except made from Lips...

[Will Hunt]

For the record I don't really think there's a case for changing this hold. I think there's a difference between a crucial hold thats about to snap off leaving the problem undoable and a hold that just gets better over time. Surely all that's at stake is the grade 

Ho hum

[Bonjoy]

Ok Will, you don’t think there is a case. I think there is and it’s this:
  The hold is reported to be sandy and deteriorating
  Without stabilisation this will definitely continue and probably accelerate as the hold is also used as a foothold
   This will ruin the problem now
   The decision to do nothing is not reversible and future climbers will be denied a classic
   Eventually the hold will become unsightly, which is offensive to climbers and non climbers alike
   A repair of this type is effectively invisible
   A repair of this type and size will probably be highly effective and protect the hold for years
   It's not just the grade that's at stake, it's the quality of climbing and the integrity of the rock
   By your logic, why should we bother cleaning grit off our boots before climbing, who cares about polish, it's only the grade that's at stake after all 


I'd love to hear what exactly people object to about well done stabilisation work. I noticed a fair bit of naysaying on YG about stabilising the hold, but little in the way of a coherent argument for this view.

[dave]

A repair of this type is effectively invisible

Just to reiterate this point, there are properly repaired holds in the peak that people climb on every day without even being able to tell anything has been done. I can see why the yorks scene might be twitchy about repairs when there's all that unsightly cement shit at bridestones, but it doesn't have to be like that.

[GCW]

I was wondering the other day what the Kebs would be like if someone had stepped in early and done a simple repair with stabiliser, rather than leaving it too late and botching the repair jobs.

[TomP]

Taking this topic from YG.com, in this specific case I think there is sufficient reason to stabalise the hold. I haven't taken any notice of the latest techniques of doing this but I'm sure it will hardly be noticed.

It's nothing to do with altering the grade but ensuring that the problem remains as good as it has been in the past. As the human species manages their environment to such an extent, trying to stop one small piece of rock change for the worse seems pretty minor to me.

However, the problem is created - where does it stop? If less experienced or educated climbers understand that they can paste chemicals onto holds which have minor deterioration, this will create a problem. The issue in Yorkshire is that very little altering of holds has occurred in the past (aside from Bridestones which has put the local population off). I think reluctance to alter holds comes from not wanting to interefere to keep the crags "natural" and an "Old Skool" mentality. The irony is though that if no intervention is undertaken then some problems/crags will erode into a state where no climber can appreciate them. It is a more complex issue than just fixing this one problem.

[GCW]

I suspect that if someone had gone and stabilised the hold properly without mentioning it, very few people would ever have noticed.

[TomP]

Without a doubt! I probably wouldn't have noticed either

[Stubbs]

haha I quite like the idea of keeping a hold 'natural' at a crag littered with the chipped problems of previous generations!

[dingbat]

I have been keeping up to date with this topic on Yorkshiregit! but feel that maybe this is a more level board to float opinions.
It is true to say that scaring of rock looks ugly to climbers and Jo public, but then the application of chalk to a boulder looks ugly also, to Jo public and some boulders if pushed may agree!. It is also to late in the day to play the "conservation" card, as we have created the said mess, in order gratify our needs, as climbers.Also, yes the Kebs is a proper mess now, but also a great valuable lesson could be learnt from this action. Also say that the gaston was glued, how do we know what it shall be like in years to come, after it has been brushed, my guess is that it shall be smooth and glassy. I can see the discussion from both sides, yet Robin has gained himself a load of respect over the 20 years, as a contributer to this activity of bouldering and routing in the area, and i really think he has a slightly stronger case. Also Robin and myself have developed a new area at caley, we were hoping YG would publish it, but we can only assume the recent debate may have put an end to that.

[dave]

why do you think a repaired hold would go glassy? I'd check out other repaired holds that have had a few years use in the peak before jumping to that conclusion.

[dingbat]

ok, good idea Dave - please could you let me know what problems they are on?, as heading that way at wkend!

[Stubbs]

If you want a more local venue to check holds at you could see if you and Robin can spot which holds have been treated at Whitehouses, I certainly can't tell the difference.

Jon doesn't update YG every day, give him some time, I'm sure he'll get round to it.  So has everything been climbed at the new area now? Heard they may be something quite tricky to go there...

[dingbat]

ok, thanks, shall try to get up there as never been before, looks good though!

Mostly all done now, at the new place. If you go don't miss out the leaning right arete of Finches Fuel V6, on wall right of overhung prow, and Ayes V5 directly up wall left of prow, via flake for right hand. Also the lower traverse of Sorrel from right around arete to finish past mono to top, found lower down bank behind boulders.
good luck

[TomP]

haha I quite like the idea of keeping a hold 'natural' at a crag littered with the chipped problems of previous generations!

Exactly!

I suppose one main issue is to get someone who knows what they are doing.

I'm also sorry to say that those new problems have been done at Caley quite a few years ago. I'm not sure who by origonaly but for some reason the were never recorded.

A friend showed me them at the weekend. That large prow has been done many years ago, along with those aretes and the wall next to it (basically everything except the right hand side of the prow which is a very hard project). I first heard of them after Ben Bransby and friends cleaned the prow and sparked a bit of interest, probably approaching 5 years ago now and it had even been done years before that. The prow is a tricky V7 (more like V8), which Nige Poustie even broke his ankle on due the the slopey landing. Making our way back to t he car was.......interesting! The other smaller problems, like the two caves probably hadn't been done but the plum line is that arete/prow. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news and I can certainly understand why you and Robin think it is a new area. It's very difficult to find unclimbed problems at the Cliff or Caley! I certainly have spent quite a bit of time looking for missed lines!

Anyway, well done for being keen and finding it. I think it's good that you have reported it so the same mistake doesn't happen again

[dave]

ok, good idea Dave - please could you let me know what problems they are on?, as heading that way at wkend!

I'll try and remember some as example - thats the problem, the repairs are so invisible you forget.

[dingbat]

ok, I don't mind if that is true Tom, yet by the amount of moss and general growth clinging to them, it must have been at least a decade ago, also The arete right of the prow lost a few pebbles on working it out, for sure they would have come off before now, if already climbed. Along with the traverse of the lower boulders, from behind! But yes you have a point, I remember Derek Ashworth trying to describe where the prow was in the woods, about 10 years ago!... But also Tom as you know, you did not get the first ascent of "Banana republic" but you claimed it, it was first climbed in the 90's.