[uptown]

Sit start on the two pockets of below the decks then head left into the scoop via a stern rockover and some pinches.
About 7b I think though it was a bit warm yesterday.
Couple of photos taken by Charlie from Saltaire...

[fashionguru]

This looks a great problem but is this not the same as Problem 3 on B-2 in the Steve Rohdes guide?

3 6b 7  From 2 (right arete of prow) trav L under prow finish on left slab.

Not knowing exactly what has been done only looking at the pics I think this may be similar.

Please give more info as if it is a new addition I would be interested in going and trying it when the weather gets better for grit.

Lime for now or the mountain or the coast.

Anyway great looking photos.

Tony Simpson

[Pantontino]

I thought was just a wind up, but no-one has bitten (until now). Surely every possible variation has been done a thousand times over on this nose of rock? I've certainly done this and about 5 other variations on the same theme. 

[fashionguru]

No what you mean Si but just checking, any new probs at the given grade are worth doing are they not.

Hope your well and will say hi next time we bump into each other. When ever that may be!

Tony

[uptown]

Cheers for your comments Tony - I think my post succeeds in highlighting the ambiguities of Yorkshire bouldering guides. I'll explain later...

The motivation for me in raising such a thread is to attempt to definitively catalogue and bring awareness to the mass of quality undocumented problems in Yorkshire.
J.P.Hotham (http://www.geocities.com/yorkshireboulder/index.htm) and John Wainwright both did sterling work to move Yorkshire gritstone awareness forward, and Jon Pearson at Yorkshiregrit.com bravely took over the reins subsequently.
The task at hand is still incomplete however - much work remains.


Now to address the ambiguities -

Although Simon gets a nod from all three guidebook authors in their acknowledgements (Steve Rhodes(1993), Alan Cameron-Duff(2000) and Steve Dunning(2008)), and he recollects having climbed all possible variations on this section of rock, this line still goes undocumented, or is at best confusing even if you own all 3 books:

It could be problem 3 in the SR book though it's definitely much harder than the prow problems 1 and 2. (It grades problem 3 7a+. Syretts roof, Sloper patrol and Pebble wall were also in at 7a+, whilst this problem IMHO is much harder than this trio.)
It could be problem 5 on boulder 2 in the ACD book though it's definitely harder than 6c/6c+.
SD makes no mention at all, though he also neglects many other problems that don't fit a photo topo format.

It might just be a variation that deserves to be obsolete, though I think not - the line is striking and obvious from the photos and worthy of recording with good independant moves.

I apologise to Simon for ruffling feathers and evidently misplacing this thread in the news section. Maybe a moderator could move it to the bouldering section and the debate could continue - would any peeps like to see a conclusive grit list for Yorkshire or am I just inviting yet more ridicule. Maybe grey is the new Black?!? Answers on a Yorkshire postcard please?!?

[slackline]

would any peeps like to see a conclusive grit list for Yorkshire or am I just inviting yet more ridicule. Maybe grey is the new Black?!? Answers on a Yorkshire postcard please?!?

Don't see the need to be definitive and document absolutely everything in the world.  Its fun discovering things for yourself, even if they have been done years ago.

[uptown]

would any peeps like to see a conclusive grit list for Yorkshire or am I just inviting yet more ridicule. Maybe grey is the new Black?!? Answers on a Yorkshire postcard please?!?

Don't see the need to be definitive and document absolutely everything in the world.  Its fun discovering things for yourself, even if they have been done years ago.

I'm not suggesting documenting everything - just the good quality independent and/or historically worthwhile problems. This problem would get in on the first point.

[Pantontino]

Firstly there is no such thing as a definitive bouldering guide to anywhere - it would be extremely difficult to nail everything. A better solution in my opinion is to make sure that all the worthwhile stuff is documented. The three guides you mention do that to a differing degree. Personally I think that the first guide had too many daft eliminates in it, the second one needed more consultation with locals and that the last one was not comprehensive enough.

I haven't got a copies of the Steve Rhodes or Alan Cameron Duff guides handy, but I'm sure it was documented in both. Maybe I exaggerated by saying 5 different variations, but we did climb all over this bit of rock back in the early 90s. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be documented, just that it was not a first ascent. And if the quoted grades seem wrong then that is of little surprise - grades were all over the place back then.

Oh, and just because my name gets put in the contributors/thanks list in a guidebook doesn't make me responsible for its content - the buck always stops with the editor/main writer. (For example, I had almost nothing to do with the last guidebook, beyond a few conversations with Steve.)

Aside from all that (and I hope I haven't put your nose too out of joint), I'd love to see a comprehensive 7 + 8 list for Yorkshire. Lists are great!

[Bonjoy]

I'm always keen to see a good list!

[uptown]

Firstly there is no such thing as a definitive bouldering guide to anywhere - it would be extremely difficult to nail everything. A better solution in my opinion is to make sure that all the worthwhile stuff is documented. The three guides you mention do that to a differing degree. Personally I think that the first guide had too many daft eliminates in it, the second one needed more consultation with locals and that the last one was not comprehensive enough.

I haven't got a copies of the Steve Rhodes or Alan Cameron Duff guides handy, but I'm sure it was documented in both. Maybe I exaggerated by saying 5 different variations, but we did climb all over this bit of rock back in the early 90s. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be documented, just that it was not a first ascent. And if the quoted grades seem wrong then that is of little surprise - grades were all over the place back then.

Oh, and just because my name gets put in the contributors/thanks list in a guidebook doesn't make me responsible for its content - the buck always stops with the editor/main writer. (For example, I had almost nothing to do with the last guidebook, beyond a few conversations with Steve.)

Aside from all that (and I hope I haven't put your nose too out of joint), I'd love to see a comprehensive 7 + 8 list for Yorkshire. Lists are great!

Thanks Simon, I agree with all that. I just get despondent when the UKB homies brown up everything in Wales and the Peak, yet are negative about Yorkshire. I've climbed long and hard enough now to know if a problem is worth drawing some attention to, that's the feeling I got on this one, and if YG was being updated then I wouldn't even have mentioned it on UKB after some of the previous responses to my threads.
It's a shame really, I feel we lack a community vibe in Yorkshire, very few pats on backs. Maybe it's because there's no scene centre - no 'Beris or Sheff, although I know it wasn't always like this.

Btw - the size of my nose makes it impossible to disjoint! I'll be in Wales at the weekend, so might see you around.

[uptown]

I'm always keen to see a good list!

Me too - when can I see your Peak one?

[Bonjoy]

Haven't updated it for a few months now, but will tidy it up and post when I get chance/remember.

[dave]

I just get despondent when the UKB homies brown up everything in Wales and the Peak, yet are negative about Yorkshire.

I think thats a bit unfair!

i'm happy to beat on wales or the lakes just as much as yorkshire. 

[SA Chris]

I just get despondent when the UKB homies brown up everything in Wales and the Peak, yet are negative about Yorkshire.

I think thats a bit unfair!

i'm happy to beat on wales or the lakes just as much as yorkshire. 

Or indeed anywhere in the world, except font.

(although you probably have too.)

[TomP]

The 7+8 list that John Wainwright was a great piece of work and would make a great aid to the aspiring boulderer. It was bang up to date around a year ago but many hard problems have been done since. Copies were distributed to a few people but it would be great to get it to people who want to see it. I'll ask him when I next see him if it would be ok to update and post it here.

Slighty off topic but with regards to the Yorkshire scene: In my opinion, at the moment, the amount of new quality problems coming out of this glorious county is unrivaled by anywhere else in the UK (I'm sure quite a few people will disagree with that). Sure the Peak and Wales have new problems getting dispatched regularly but not in the same volume as Yorkshire. With out trying to sound like a dick, I've been here for less than 4 years and managed well over 50 FAs - I'm not sure if I could have done that anywhere else in this country. There are whole crags in yorkshire that are being developed and plenty that are yet to be bouldered on. Aside from Scotland, I can't think of anywhere with that amount of potential.

You don't here much news on here because Yorkies feel (or know) that the predominant users are from wales or the peak and don't seem to show much interest in the Yorkshire scene, which is fair enough. Therefore, many people feel that there isn't much happening in Yorkshire.

The Yorkshire Scene is buzzing and there's a plethora of talent and motivated individuals here. We just seem to keep ourselves to ourselves and information seems to leak out via a few websites or word of mouth. I think the Yorkies like being slightly cut off form the real world and for good reason - there's shit loads to do here!

[Pantontino]

Tom I can't fault your enthusiasm for Yorkshire - it is a great place to climb after all - but you could easily have climbed that many first ascents in North Wales if you had wanted to. There are still loads of undeveloped areas and developing areas, plus plenty of gaps in the standard areas.

As for the Peak/Wales bias on UKB. Welsh news only normally gets posted on here if it is really important (such as Doylo's recent Ormes masterpiece). Otherwise you have to go NWB.com for the 'local interest' news. The reason why you see a lot of Peak news on here (from the trivial to the groundbreaking) is that there is no equivalent Peak bouldering news/topos website (a strange situation I grant you given that just about every other area in the UK has a specific bouldering website).

John's list was a great piece of work, and it was distributed pretty widely at the time. It would be good if Uptowngirl updated it and extended it down to 7a (all the versions of John's list I saw only went down to 7b+ plus a selection of lower grade classics - so not really a 7 + 8 list), and then got it up online for everybody to see.

[Fiend]

Thanks Simon, I agree with all that. I just get despondent when the UKB homies brown up everything in Wales and the Peak, yet are negative about Yorkshire. I've climbed long and hard enough now to know if a problem is worth drawing some attention to, that's the feeling I got on this one, and if YG was being updated then I wouldn't even have mentioned it on UKB after some of the previous responses to my threads.

Surely the difference being that whilst in the Peak there's a fashion for digging up grotty low-ball lying start done-years-ago eliminates, up in Yorkshire you've got enough good rock and varied crags to explore (as TomP alludes to) that you don't need to get low down and dirty like that

[webbo]

Surely the difference being that whilst in the Peak there's a fashion for digging up grotty low-ball lying start done-years-ago eliminates, up in Yorkshire you've got enough good rock and varied crags to explore (as TomP alludes to) that you don't need to get low down and dirty like that

but thats where your wrong fiend.yorkshire is the home of "we did that years ago but we didn't bother recording it as its a bit of an eliminate"

[Bonjoy]

The 7+8 list that John Wainwright was a great piece of work and would make a great aid to the aspiring boulderer. It was bang up to date around a year ago but many hard problems have been done since. Copies were distributed to a few people but it would be great to get it to people who want to see it. I'll ask him when I next see him if it would be ok to update and post it here.

Slighty off topic but with regards to the Yorkshire scene: In my opinion, at the moment, the amount of new quality problems coming out of this glorious county is unrivaled by anywhere else in the UK (I'm sure quite a few people will disagree with that). Sure the Peak and Wales have new problems getting dispatched regularly but not in the same volume as Yorkshire. With out trying to sound like a dick, I've been here for less than 4 years and managed well over 50 FAs - I'm not sure if I could have done that anywhere else in this country. There are whole crags in yorkshire that are being developed and plenty that are yet to be bouldered on. Aside from Scotland, I can't think of anywhere with that amount of potential.

You don't here much news on here because Yorkies feel (or know) that the predominant users are from wales or the peak and don't seem to show much interest in the Yorkshire scene, which is fair enough. Therefore, many people feel that there isn't much happening in Yorkshire.

The Yorkshire Scene is buzzing and there's a plethora of talent and motivated individuals here. We just seem to keep ourselves to ourselves and information seems to leak out via a few websites or word of mouth. I think the Yorkies like being slightly cut off form the real world and for good reason - there's shit loads to do here!

Like Pantontino says UKB has more discussion of Peak problems to a large extent because there is no peakgritstone.com. UKB has never really been very on top of Yorkshire activity because the majority of people putting up probs in Yorkshire don't bother to post stuff about it here. If Yorshire activists want there to be more discussion of Yorkshire news on here it is easily achieved by them using the forum as somewhere to discuss stuff/post pictures etc.

[uptown]

Like Pantontino says UKB has more discussion of Peak problems to a large extent because there is no peakgritstone.com. UKB has never really been very on top of Yorkshire activity because the majority of people putting up probs in Yorkshire don't bother to post stuff about it here.

As I mentioned above there is also no YG.com at the moment either. Or at least no updates possible (hence this thread). UKB is by far the most subscribed forum on all things wonderful, yet my question is why so few Yorkshire boulderers on it? Is something putting them off? A Peer of mine once suggested that to change something you disagree with is nigh on impossible unless you are doing so from within that institution. That institution must be accepting and inclusive of anyone though to appeal at the outset.

If Yorshire (myshire?) activists want there to be more discussion of Yorkshire news on here it is easily achieved by them using the forum as somewhere to discuss stuff/post pictures etc.

I tried that and it led to derision.

I feel that a 7+8 list to myshire should not see the light of day - The Yorkies' secrets will remain safe (and neglected.)

[Bonjoy]

Obviously you're a notable exception to the rule UTG. I'm not sure why the other chaps are so quiet on here.
 Maybe they feel unwelcome, which i think is unfounded, Yorks related topics/posters have generally recieved the same mix of good/bad/indifferent responses as anything else.
 Maybe they feel UKB is a 'peakie' site and hence not worthy of attention. I've always found it odd how much I get jibed by yorks/lancs climbers for being a 'peakie', when 'peakies' have no corresponding name or stance towards yorks/lancs climbers.
 Maybe it comes from a desire to keep yorkshire's secrets safe from marauding southerners.
 Maybe it's just because the Yorkshiregrit site is really good and additional publicity is not considered worth persuing.

[webbo]

most of my mates few ukb as a peak site and therefore a rival.which i suspect is alot to do with tradition.you only have to look back to harding/dolphin or brown and willians/austin.
the quote of joe browns when allan austin asked him what he thought the best crag in yorkshire was "wimberry"
that sort sets the scene for rivalry and competion.

[uptown]

Good points Webbo - I guess my problem is that I am neither a peakie nor a yorkie having been based in both metropolis' and having climbed extensively in both areas. Maybe I'm a meakie or a morkie...

[soapy]

...orson?

[Jim]

The 2 best bouldering crags in the country are both in yorkshire IMHO