Wellsy's knee recovery thread

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duncan said:
Fiend said:
How the fuck did the hospital mis-diagnose that given that LCL and MCL are pretty much polar opposite injuries and the tests are polar opposite movement tests (and really easy to do)?? :???:

When someone's knee is acutely painful and swollen every movement hurts. Diagnosing is not easy. It's maybe better not to try but everyone expects to walk out of A+E with a name.

Wellsy, this is all sounding promising. I'm not sure an MRI will be needed, it's mainly a surgeon's tool and as you seem to be improving fast you'll hopefully avoid this. Function should be your guide: if your knee feels stable it doesn't hugely matter what scans show. Usual caveats on the worth of free advice over the internet...

Thanks mate. It definitely feels like it's going in as good a direction as I could have hoped for!
 
Fiend said:
Okay that's fair enough about the difficulty and vagueness of A & E. I was speaking from experience with my physio diagnosis that was so easy: Bend the knee inwards, no increase in pain -vs- bend the knee outwards, immediate increase in pain and too much flexing in the knee (and I assume this would have been directly the opposite with the MCL).

Essentially the opposite yeah.

I would say after looking into it, it appears that when you get a ligament injury in a joint often the other side of the joint gets very rapidly compressed leading to at times even more intense pain than the actually injured site. Apparently especially common in ankles in fact, you can damage ligament on the outside and it hurts more on the inside because the soft tissue has overcompressed, which eases after a few days.

On the day my LCL region was very painful, I assume due to compression, and my knee was very swollen so a valgus test was not viable maybe? Anyway. Understandable that they would not diagnose it accurately imo.
 
Wellsy said:
Lord knows. I guess it is hard to diagnosis stuff in A&E.

Also yes I'm comforted in having the most basic bitch of ligament injuries.
I spent the afternoon in Hull A & E having had a head on collision with lurched whilst out on my bike. No broken bones apparently.
Next morning my mate and colleague who was the A & E mental health liaison nurse called round to give me a lift back to A & E . When a senior medic had reviewed the days X rays he noticed I had 3 broken ribs.
A lot of the doctors working A & E are often on the first placement after finishing medical school.
 
I was fortunate in that I was seen by a nurse practitioner with something like 30+ years experience; Ysbyty Gwynedd's equivalent of Charlie from Casualty.
 
One week later: rehab started in earnest. Mobility stretches for range of motion and gentle movement on the exercise bike, which feels good and not impinging. Bit of slow air squats and such too. I'll be getting on the gym machines this week. One crutch outdoors essentially for a bit of security but doing much better. Regular ice and flexing seems to really help. Upper body training also in moderation, no more than before but no less either.

Walking is still not pleasant and first thing in the morning it's very stiff. But this is to be expected. Good progress.
 
Marginally less fucked. No climbing is misery inducing. I hope it pisses it down when my friends go out. Going to start barbell benching again.
 
Wellsy said:
Marginally less fucked. No climbing is misery inducing.
Imagine how that will feel after a couple of months of it :blink: *

As a bonus, imagine that you also have an arm injury so you can't train. And that the one time you do go out to try to climb even the easiest stuff you can't trust yourself to do anything at all, and end up curled up on the sofa in a pit of despair. And imagine that exactly the same sort of double injury happened the previous year...

On the other hand, if you can bench enough, according to Liamhutch98, you'll soon be doing enough muscle-ups to climb 8B... (personally I did some of my best benching at the weekend and would have PBed if some fucking random nub i got to spot me hadn't taken a fraction of the weight on my lift - and I'm on the worst climbing burl shape I've ever been).

* - p.s. in all seriousness, stick with it. Day by day, each time try to do something useful for your rehab or general activity. And "be glad you have the opportunity to learn the virtue of patience" (C) MrJonathonR 2017 (arsehole ::) )
 
I can (could, because I can't risk dropping from them) shoddily do one (1) muscle up on the rings but I'm pretty sure I could do ten perfectly and I'd get to about 7B+ with a tailwind knowing my ability.

I am carefully learning and distilling the art of bitter hatred but yes it could be worse I could be down the use of my wanking hand. The benching is more because I like benching than anything really.

Hope your majesty mortal avatar fixes up in all the joints, Fiend
 
Wellsy said:
I am carefully learning and distilling the art of bitter hatred
:2thumbsup: that's the spirit!!

I agree with you on bench. One of my favourite non-climbing movements.
 
Fiend said:
On the other hand, if you can bench enough, according to Liamhutch98, you'll soon be doing enough muscle-ups to climb 8B... (personally I did some of my best benching at the weekend and would have PBed if some fucking random nub i got to spot me hadn't taken a fraction of the weight on my lift - and I'm on the worst climbing burl shape I've ever been).

Congrats on getting to 1.5x bodyweight on bench in order to disprove what I said...

Although what I actually said was 1.5x bench and 1.5x pullup would equal muscle ups. Find me someone with those numbers who can't do a muscle up.

You are in poor burl shape because you are injured and perhaps your numbers are way below 1.5x?

Sorry for hijack wellsy. Glad to hear things are mending slowly and keep up the psyche :punk:
 
1.5 BW bench is pretty nails. I'd love to get to that.

Psyche will be maintained! Pushing my strength for when I get back in action
 
Liamhutch89 said:
Although what I actually said was 1.5x bench and 1.5x pullup would equal muscle ups. Find me someone with those numbers who can't do a muscle up.
^^^ this seems to be a lot more realistic than...

Liamhutch89 said:
While steep board climbing would likely be better, I reckon these would be the best 2 non climbing exercises for burl. If you can bench and row 1.5 times your bodyweight then you can automatically do all the supposedly more climbing exercises like T's on TRX, explosive pullups or muscle ups, etc. Probably way before reaching 1.5x actually. You wouldn't be found wanting more body strength at this point.

Yes it's nit-picking a bit*, but when we're talking about stuff at the limit the little bits count. Also it's a bit frustrating that even well fully uninjured and climbing fit, weights performance has never translated into climbing physical performance nearly as much as your first post. The updated one seems a more realistic correlation.

(* - and beating a dead horse AND hijacking wellsy's thread AND moaning again jfc I'm a fud I know)
 
I was obviously pulling numbers out my arse but it just seemed obvious to me that someone who is generally strong will do well at burly climbing, and pullups and bench press are great exercises for building general strength. We've all seen the non-climber gym bro types who can campus all the v2's with socks under their rental shoes, but don't know what a slab is.

Out of interest how much have you been able to add to your weighted pullups over time without seeing an impact on your climbing?
 
Footwork and I were once climbing at Jerrys roof when some strong lad explained that he thought the only things you need to train for climbing are bench and shoulder press, because climbing is mostly push movements - I was confused, but he did then fire off Mr Fantastic iirc :shrug:
 
Wellsy said:
No climbing is misery inducing.

I'd try your best to get past this and focus on things you can do and do enjoy. You don't want to end up as a 1D Barrows bemoaning life because your finger hurts a bit (even if it is only capable of 9a). It's harder said than done of course (I've been there and my Wife would probably tell you I was a complete PITA at times when I've been truly injured).

Quite a while ago now I broke my leg spectacularly falling off at a bouldering wall and essentially stamping on my right leg with my left when landing (the Northern General did a great job of everything from A&E to fixing my leg as well as you might hope). I spent about 8 months with a frame but I was able to do plenty of weights once I was mobile. You do get funny looks rolling dumbbells at an empty bench and then hobbling after them.
 
Congrats on your shoulder-press-derived speedy ascent of Mr Fantastic, LH89!

Liamhutch89 said:
I was obviously pulling numbers out my arse but it just seemed obvious to me that someone who is generally strong will do well at burly climbing, and pullups and bench press are great exercises for building general strength. We've all seen the non-climber gym bro types who can campus all the v2's with socks under their rental shoes, but don't know what a slab is.

Out of interest how much have you been able to add to your weighted pullups over time without seeing an impact on your climbing?
Yes I think we agree it's obvious there are good links between general upper body strength, especially climbing-relevant-muscles strength, and climbing burl (once the fingers are trained ofc).

I was going to answer your question with "You really expect me to remember the very dim and distant past where I could do weighted pull-ups without things snapping??" and then I remembered, it was only 4 years ago - the first time I got tennis elbows in fact, from weighted pull-ups as part of general hard-for-me bouldering and training without enough rest. I vaguely recall 2 reps at +30kg and 1 pretty-much-a-rep-and-the-fucking-crossfitters-would-tick-it at +40kg, which is alarmingly bang on your pulled-out-of-arse 1.5 x BW. In terms of climbing stuff, I was doing okay in general, my deadhanging was okay, but could still only do 1-3-5 *just* and very occasionally on the campus board. I'm calling fast twitch muscle fibres and a significant difference between strength and explosive power (incidentally my half-decent benches are always so slow on successful maxes that it's like watching Moose staticking the Who Are We Without Moon dyno over several minutes....). I have been meaning to train explosive power more, but it's also even worse for tendons ::)
 
What do you reckon is harder to get to, 1.5 BW pullup or 1.5 BW bench

I think bench. A 1.5 BW bench is quite a lot. I can do like... 1.05? 1.1? Maybe? And I'd say for a climber thats pretty good actually.
 
1xBW pull up is easy
1xBW bench requires a bit more oomph. Obvious which is harder.
 
Bench by a long way. Maybe LH89's Extraordinarily Accurate Relative Strengths Comparometer (tm) could estimate what %BW pull-ups you should be able to do for 1.5xBW bench....

Actually I have wondered what the general comparisons "should" be for a relatively normal fit / strong climber as regards:

Number of pull-ups
Max weight pull-up
Max squat
Max deadlift
Max bench
Max overhead press
Max row
Max bicep curl

(insofar as they're clearly measurable)
(as kgs or proportions of body weight)

I do know from chatting to various people they vary quite a lot.... Wellsy stop despairing and get a proper scientific research UKB topic on the go ;)
 
Fiend said:
(incidentally my half-decent benches are always so slow on successful maxes that it's like watching Moose staticking the Who Are We Without Moon dyno over several minutes....). I have been meaning to train explosive power more, but it's also even worse for tendons ::)

Shade! But also accurate re my utter lack of dynamism and burl. Sadly, I suspect I would fare even worse now - same faults but 7kg heavier. Though weirdly, unless I suffer from the inverse of body dysmorphia I look no different - but the fingerboard tests are now far more punterish.
 


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