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Topic slit Hubble with kneepad (Read 30630 times)

shark

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#300 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 11:10:25 am
Pure poetry from our ethical thought leader  :bow:

Quote from: Alex Megos link==https://www.instagram.com/p/CJJHEj5hsoP/
@gurzi I think a lot (of) the classic routes and boulders have been climbed before the kneepad was really a thing. I think there is a difference between discovering a new beta and using an additional tool. And I know at this point people will always step in and say “but climbing shoes have improved so much over the years, it should be considered a different tool now too”. Yes climbing shoes have improved and footholds are getting so much more polished. So maybe it evens out. I do agree though if new beta is found the climb should be downgraded. (In) my eyes though using a kneepad is a whole different story and hasn’t got anything to do with finding new beta. Its simply playing a different game. And climbing is only a game where we make our own rules. It seems like there is no rule the majority of the community has accepted here.

I would propose : if the FA was done without kneepad you should climb it without kneepad. If you nonetheless use a kneepad you should be honest about it and probably shouldn’t tick the same grade for it. Unless you really feel like even with kneepad it still deserves the grade it was given. Those are my thoughts.       

SA Chris

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#301 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 11:16:06 am
So the grade is different unless it feels the same, then it's the same.

Glad that's cleared up.

shark

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#302 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 11:17:04 am
So the grade is different unless it feels the same, then it's the same.

Glad that's cleared up.

"If the FA was done without kneepad you should climb it without kneepad"

Duma

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#303 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 11:18:49 am
its a bit ridiculous that a lot of this comment comes after an ascent of a DG problem - given his propensity for kneebarring anything and everything.

abarro81

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#304 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 11:22:24 am
I assume this also applies to
- chalk on clean-hand-gang FAs
- anasazis or other shoes with hook heels where these weren't used on the FA (back around Ned)
- cams on routes FAd without cams (either due to them not being invented yet or leaving them in the car accidentally)
- skyhooks on routes FAd without skyhooks
- liquid chalk on routes FAd without liquid chalk
- new ropes on routes FAd on hemp
- any ropes on routes FAd on solo
...?

shark

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#305 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 11:29:21 am
Those have gained community acceptance (rightly or wrongly). Kneepad usage isn't wholly accepted.

As Megos says:

"It seems like there is no rule the majority of the community has accepted here."

A.Greenhorne

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#306 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 11:32:22 am
It seems straight forward, knee pads make things easier therefore give an advantage. Weaker people climb the routes because of this (Mecca, eatswood etc) therefore 2 different grades. If that’s your thing, ‘knee pad ascent’ in your logbook depending on which headmaster is cracking the whip. Otherwise just downgrade the route assuming everyone will use a pad. It would be a relief to never hear about Hubble being the ‘worlds first 8c+ that is 9a’ again.

Duma

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#307 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 11:33:15 am
As Megos says:

"It seems like there is no rule the majority of the community has accepted here."

He may say that, but he's wrong. The majority do accept kneepads on ascents of routes of any age. (whether they reduce the grade or not)

teestub

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#308 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 11:33:38 am
Those have gained community acceptance (rightly or wrongly). Kneepad usage isn't wholly accepted.

As Megos says:

"It seems like there is no rule the majority of the community has accepted here."

It seems like it’s you and Megos at this point. And for him it probably comes down to not being able to get a pad to stay on his twiglets!

Doylo

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#309 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 11:36:25 am
It’s all a load of waffle when all he really wants to say is Ondra can only have 9b for PM. #shade

A.Greenhorne

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#310 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 11:38:14 am
Hang on, was your ascent of eatswood traverse kneepadless shark? If not then you better get back to tick the problem or take the accepted F7A+ for your ascent

abarro81

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#311 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 11:38:48 am
Just want to clarify...
If someone snakes my Kilnsey proj without a pad, do I then have to stop trying it with a pad even though I was trying it first?
Do retroclaims affect the validity of pads?
If Seb says he used a beer towel kneepad am I still allowed that?
Can I wear jeans (or shorts) if lycra was used on the FA?
Will the guides clearly lost which equipment is allowed or not or do I have to guess?

And, as Duma pointed out, what about if the FA would have used a pad but they just missed the knee, as is presumably the case here? Do we have to assign what's allowed based on action or intention? Oh my..

abarro81

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#312 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 11:40:04 am
Those have gained community acceptance (rightly or wrongly). Kneepad usage isn't wholly accepted.

As Megos says:

"It seems like there is no rule the majority of the community has accepted here."

I hereby don't accept cams on routes done before cams. Get your tipex out chaps.

shark

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#313 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 11:42:24 am
Hang on, was you’re ascent of eatswood traverse kneepadless shark? If not then you better get back to tick the problem or take the accepted F7A+ for your ascent

Accepted way is to do it with a pad but kneepadless would undoubtedly be better style. Funnily enough I had been thinking of going back and trying it that way.

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#314 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 11:42:59 am
Quote from: Alex Megos link==https://www.instagram.com/p/CJJHEj5hsoP/
If you nonetheless use a kneepad you should be honest about it and probably shouldn’t tick the same grade for it. Unless you really feel like even with kneepad it still deserves the grade it was given.
That's some radical cutting edge intellectual shit there  ;D

shark

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#315 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 11:44:28 am
I hereby don't accept cams on routes done before cams. Get your tipex out chaps.

I got a right earful from Joe Brown for using cams on Right Eliminate. I'm sure his shop stocked them but I know where he was coming from now.

Will Hunt

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#316 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 11:50:22 am
I hereby don't accept cams on routes done before cams. Get your tipex out chaps.

I got a right earful from Joe Brown for using cams on Right Eliminate. I'm sure his shop stocked them but I know where he was coming from now.

Is that the one that you removed the chockstone from, despite that being the way it was climbed on the first ascent?

shark

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#317 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 11:53:23 am
Is that the one that you removed the chockstone from, despite that being the way it was climbed on the first ascent?

One of the things that Joe clarified was that there was no chockstone on the first ascent.

Doylo

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#318 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 11:55:50 am
Quote from: Alex Megos link==https://www.instagram.com/p/CJJHEj5hsoP/
If you nonetheless use a kneepad you should be honest about it and probably shouldn’t tick the same grade for it. Unless you really feel like even with kneepad it still deserves the grade it was given.
That's some radical cutting edge intellectual shit there  ;D

What u taking m8? What ya taking ??

Will Hunt

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#319 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 12:05:34 pm
Is that the one that you removed the chockstone from, despite that being the way it was climbed on the first ascent?

One of the things that Joe clarified was that there was no chockstone on the first ascent.

Did he provide any uncut video to prove it?

abarro81

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#320 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 12:17:54 pm
My questions just keep coming.. if I do a new low start or extension finish can I use a pad on the new bits but not the old bits? If a pad touches the rock on the existing bits is that a dab? Questions questions...

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#321 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 12:36:24 pm
"don't use a kneepad if an FA didn't, but if you do only take the grade if it doesn't help"

I love watching people die on this particular hill :popcorn: but he could have made a better point here!

Looking forward to him getting on a Charles Albert problem.

tomtom

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#322 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 12:47:34 pm
The only way to have a clean conscience about climbing is to basically not give a shit about anyone else’s “morals” or “ethics” or “what is right” and do what you think is best.

Otherwise we’re all guilty in some way. Chalk, cams, climbing shoes, heels, toehooks, knee pads, antihydral, coaching, training, beta, videos, precleaning, placing gear, bolts, wire brushes, lycra, skyhooks etc etc etc etc etc....


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#323 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 12:59:41 pm
Not every technology development is accepted - e.g. heel spurs in mixed climbing made it too easy to rest your way up a route.

It does feel like rubber knee pads are accepted now though. I can't think of many climbers who I hang out with who haven't used one at some point. Mind you, outside of the Cave you don't see them very often in North Wales, at least not at the crags i go to.

SA Chris

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#324 Re: Topic slit Hubble with kneepad
December 24, 2020, 01:31:14 pm
So the grade is different unless it feels the same, then it's the same.

Glad that's cleared up.

"If the FA was done without kneepad you should climb it without kneepad"

Selective quoting is a dangerous game, dear IO. he then goes on to say;

Quote
If you nonetheless use a kneepad you should be honest about it and probably shouldn’t tick the same grade for it. Unless you really feel like even with kneepad it still deserves the grade it was given. Those are my thoughts.       

Which is what I was paraphrasing above.

 

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