[mrjonathanr]

Was it yellow trousered overgrading youtube star maybe?

The people that are 'living' in there vans...its amazing how they disappear somewhere for 5 days then come back almost like they go somewhere to refresh and wash clothes, shower and pick up mail.....

That’s despicable. When I lived in a van it had a shower, which was used properly. To store beer.

[Bonjoy]

Tim - My comment was about conditions. Which are terrible there in the afternoon if it's warm and sunny. You'd have to be mad etc.

[Bonjoy]

Somebody summed things up nicely on the other channel with a post along the lines of "it's OK for me to drop litter because nobody else is".

Appealing simplicity  aside, I don't think that's a very well fitting simile. Littering is intrinsically anti-social and leaves a permanent or semi permanent artifact in place. Maybe if the lone litterer is dropping a banana skin it works better, but then I suspect that wouldn't very well fit the posters favoured narrative.

[tomtom]

I think the attitude expressed in the litter metaphor is fitting if not the impact of dropping litter vs climbing etc...

[Ged]

Somebody summed things up nicely on the other channel with a post along the lines of "it's OK for me to drop litter because nobody else is".

Appealing simplicity  aside, I don't think that's a very well fitting simile. Littering is intrinsically anti-social and leaves a permanent or semi permanent artifact in place. Maybe if the lone litterer is dropping a banana skin it works better, but then I suspect that wouldn't very well fit the posters favoured narrative.

I'd say breaking lockdown is intrinsically antisocial. And potentially leaves a long lasting legacy in terms of affecting our ability to get out of this mess.

[danm]

My favourite synopsis of this situation and the arguments being made here and elsewhere comes from GvG:

"Moral duty vs addiction"

When I started climbing over 30 years ago (gulp!) part of the attraction was that it was rebellious and counter-cultural, it felt like a way of "sticking it to the man". Now, it seems like a possible outcome will be to stick it to someone's Gran.

[Oldmanmatt]

Devon and Cornwall’s Chief Constable has given a statement to the Beeb about this, where he described the “Guidance” that many are so hot on, as “some of the worst he’s ever seen” and (specifically in reference to traveling to surf, but I assume it will be applied in general):

"If people are, essentially taking the mick, then we may find it best to send them to the magistrates' court and let them work it out.“

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/devon-cornwalls-top-cop-slates-4079440

[petejh]

On the dropping litter metaphor. There's a spectrum from, at one end, discretely arc'ing your apple core into the long grass at the crag, to ongoing large-scale fly-tipping of the waste from your kitchen extension down a scenic country lane.
Where do the Tor people sit on that spectrum? My estimate would be somewhere around absent-minded leaving a banana skin on a rock while out for a walk, to hoiking a coke can and mars bar wrapper into a pleasant little community pond. They should be punished accordingly.
I think we should be climbing (if at all) at the apple-core end of the antisocial spectrum.

[kac]

I think I get what your saying Pete and I agree there is a big difference between the kind of climbing bonjoy is talking about and going to the tor. Highlighting and shaming people going to discreet places which they keep quiet about I wouldn't advocate and although personally it still doesn't feel right climbing to me I wouldn't criticise people doing this.  In my opinion the tor is different because the local community and other interested parties like the river warden will see that people are climbing and it could damage relationships for years. In my opinion anyone climbing at places like the tor or griffs are incredibly selfish and should be called out so that it hopefully stops before any/more damage is done. Wales is obviously different because your new welsh guidelines make it pretty clear you shouldnt be doing any type of climbing 

[petejh]

Don't disagree with any of that, just trying to interject a bit of light-hearted litter dropping-based humour into the serious business of being angry about things.

As for the Tor-goers my uninformed opinion is if they're desperate to climb then it would be more wise to find somewhere a lot less public, less frequented by other climbers and less sensitive access-wise than the Tor. Or just go for a run or a cycle (and avoid heavy breathing within 5 metres of others).

[Murph]

As I've said before, I cannot believe the rush to be judging pricks when not in full possession of the facts. Even if they're not living there, that session might be their last resort before throwing themselves under a train. People are struggling. Wind your fucking necks in.

  judging prick here Johnny.

Rather that than a climbing at popular indiscreet location during corona climbing lockdown prick.

For now.

[webbo]

While out on a bike ride this afternoon. I came across three people getting their bikes out of a bike shop van( shop about 18 miles away) to go on a ride. When I strongly stated they shouldn’t be doing this, I was informed that the up dated guidance says it’s ok as long as the exercise is longer than the drive.
I was appalled by this attitude as the roads have never been better for cycling so why do need to drive out of city ( Hull) to ride.

[Will Hunt]

To be fair, one can never get out of Hull which enough.

[petejh]

I hope you took the obvious next step - snuck around to where they'd later be passing and strung a tensioned wire across their route:
https://www.mbr.co.uk/news/wothersome-trail-sabotage-396473

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-52380893?at_medium=custom7&at_custom2=facebook_page&at_custom1=link&at_custom4=C077E372-848D-11EA-98F7-1D0A933C408C&at_custom3=Regional+BBC+Yorkshire+&at_campaign=64

(I'm joking of course..)
(Going into the woods and digging deep pits on popular flowing downhill sections of trail and fixing excrement covered punji spikes in the bottom, then covering the whole affair with small branches and leaves, instils more terror among the wider biking community than just a wire. Or chain-sawing large trees and rigging them up into the air with pulleys so they hang ready to swing and smash mtn bikers into next week. It's the only way to be sure. See Return of the Jedi, ewok's rebellion.)

[webbo]

They were riding on the road. I did think I should have let the van tyres down but this would probably have led to another unnecessary journey.

[TobyD]

Don't disagree with any of that, just trying to interject a bit of light-hearted litter dropping-based humour into the serious business of being angry about things.

As for the Tor-goers my uninformed opinion is if they're desperate to climb then it would be more wise to find somewhere a lot less public, less frequented by other climbers and less sensitive access-wise than the Tor. Or just go for a run or a cycle (and avoid heavy breathing within 5 metres of others).

Going climbing at the tor at the moment just implies they don't give a shit about anyone else, how visible they are or how many people they might encounter or potentially harm.

Much like slinging your half eaten KFC bargain bucket out of the car window in the middle of the Lake District perhaps.

[Fatboyslimfast2]

This is the thing that gets me, we are not an isolated sports community. Yesterday and previous days before non climbing locals of the peak district have commented to me that they have seen people climbing or cars parked at climbing venues. Non climber locals  are asking me why are people doing this, I shrug feel embarrassed and have to say something about a minority etc etc 

[TobyD]

This is the thing that gets me, we are not an isolated sports community. Yesterday and previous days before non climbing locals of the peak district have commented to me that they have seen people climbing or cars parked at climbing venues. Non climber locals  are asking me why are people doing this, I shrug feel embarrassed and have to say something about a minority etc etc

I was driving around at work last week and saw a van pulling into the parking at Horseshoe Quarry. I definitely wondered why.

[SA Chris]

They were riding on the road. I did think I should have let the van tyres down but this would probably have led to another unnecessary journey.

I would have thought a dirty protest would be adequate. With your past employment experience you should be used to dealing with that shit.

[Davo]

I agree that climbing at the tor is unwise in terms of being seen by locals and non climbers and the potential impact that has and also in terms of the backlash from the climbing community.

However I really can’t see much issue with going to a isolated venue somewhere if you can get there without breaking the regulations.

As I have mentioned earlier in the thread my gripes are not with a few people going climbing causing minimal transmission risks. My issues are with large industries such as the construction industry carrying on as usual and now firms like Taylor Wimpey stating that they are going to have precautions in place that will enable them to get fully back to work! This is complete BS and should be stopped. I have seen plenty of contractors out recently with absolutely no precautions going on and suspect very much that there will be no actual precautions taking place on any building sites (well precautions that are effective).

Personally I haven’t gone out climbing but am becoming more and more tempted and am not keen on harshly judging others. A bit of of bouldering or some isolated sport climbing holds virtually nil risks and the longer this goes on with me seeing plenty of businesses carrying on virtually as normal the less I think the restrictions regarding exercise are reasonable.

As I have said on the other BMC thread rather than think of why not to go climbing we should start thinking about how we could go climbing safely or without breaking regulations.

[gme]

I can assure you the construction industry is not carrying on as normal   A bit like climbing, there are some who are but the vast majority are not.
We have not been forced to work by a single contractor. The one or two sites we are on are better organised re distancing than your average Aldi.

[Murph]

As I have mentioned earlier in the thread my gripes are not with a few people going climbing causing minimal transmission risks.

I know we've gone round the houses on this. But my gripe is that the only reason these are isolated venues is because no one else is climbing there. The tor would be quite busy or stanage or whatever but now that 95%(?) of us are doing as recommended these are isolated venues. Fauna will be nibbling at the flora growing in otherwise well trodden earth.

And then some of the 5% are posting their send just to rub our noses in it. Even with my injury I would love to go and do some laps ten minutes from here.

And yes totally get that the mental gymnastics required to compare economic activity with recreation. It doesn't objectively make a whole lotta sense. At some level though we've got to keep the lights on but there is a whole load of not essential essential activity carrying on.

Fuck it shall we just go climbing?

[Johnny Brown]

I can assure you the construction industry is not carrying on as normal   A bit like climbing, there are some who are but the vast majority are not.
We have not been forced to work by a single contractor. The one or two sites we are on are better organised re distancing than your average Aldi.

My sister works for a London-centric property management firm. Their sites have been down-manned to 25%. Interestingly, productivity is up and they expect to meet deadlines. The changes from this may not be the ones the left were hoping for.

As I have mentioned earlier in the thread my gripes are not with a few people going climbing causing minimal transmission risks.

I know we've gone round the houses on this. But my gripe is that the only reason these are isolated venues is because no one else is climbing there. The tor would be quite busy or stanage or whatever but now that 95%(?) of us are doing as recommended these are isolated venues. Fauna will be nibbling at the flora growing in otherwise well trodden earth.

Fuck it shall we just go climbing?

Redmires was about as busy as I've seen it on Saturday (although I admit I've never been there on a bank holiday). Approx 100 cars (including mine) most families, many walking to Stanage. But no crowds and far more effective social distancing being practiced than in the city parks. But no climbing.

Couple that with the Devin and Cornwall Police Chief saying 'surfing is exercise and that is fine', and the NHS starting a campaign to encourage non-Covid people to present, you have to wonder if not climbing is now less about transmission and more about virtue signalling.

[kac]

Murph there is a differce between a quiet venue and an isolated venue. The tor is not an isolated venue just because the vast majority respect that it is inappropriate to climb there.  As fatboy says the locals can see what climbers are up too and some will be pissed off. Pissing off locals is not a good idea. I don't know if it was malicious but its not that long ago that the body machine tree was cut down. Please dont climb at the tor or other sensitive places.

[Murph]

For the avoidance of doubt I had nothing to do with the Body Machine tree and I will not be going climbing again until someone texts me to say it's ok to go out at 6am in secret.