[Stu Littlefair]

But it's ok for a minister to drive 40miles to drop groceries off at his parents, even though their neighbours were already doing that? 

Alex! I expect better from you than this lame what-abouttery. Who is suggesting this is ok?

The police have got a shitty stick here no doubt, but they should enforce the law, not policy. It’s fine to have a public debate about whether yoga is ok, but as long as its exercise the police should allow it to go on. Hard to argue sunbathing is exercise though.

[abarro81]

Gov and police suggested it was ok. We're prob getting crossed wires on some of this as there's two parallel debates - one on what's moral/sensible and one on what's legal/guided

[petejh]

The 'as long as it's exercise' logic doesn't work though does it? Bouldering is exercise.

It's as if the government have for a laugh written a koan as legislation for us to ponder. 'Exercise is essential but there is no essential exercise'.

[Will Hunt]

The Canal and Rivers Trust are asking people to report anyone fishing on canals to the police and the Environment Agency.

There's an article here from July 2019:
https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/fishing/related-articles/the-fisheries-and-angling-team/reporting-people-taking-fish-away-from-canals-and-stillwaters

That article is specifically about people catching fish and taking them away, which you're not allowed to do in any case. We're talking here about people who might be fishing during lockdown and catching and releasing. This is not allowed under the law, given that I don't think many people would agree that fishing constitutes exercise, but is it really something that the police should be alerted to or something that people should be shamed for? It's an activity that is incredibly low risk in terms of injury and doesn't involve any risk of viral spread. But for people who enjoy it it's a very mindful, meditative pastime - surely just the sort of thing that people should carry on doing?

We went on a walk around the neighbourhood yesterday and I took a net and sample tray out so we could do something fun with our two year old. We pass a little stream which is very clean and aerated. Did a little kick sample and tipped it into the tray. Behold! Freshwater shrimp, caddisfly larvae, stonefly larvae, leeches, etc etc. Kept a 2 year old entertained for 45 minutes and we were out of the way of everyone. Hardly likely to encourage a spate of inappropriate behaviour in people who passed and saw us. Yet there was a comment on the Twitter thread that Duncan linked yesterday where the police had moved on a family because their 2 year old was doing "roly polys" in the park. So far, so stupid - what shocked me the most was the legion of people weighing in to say how appalling it was that this behaviour had been allowed to take place.

Many many people out there (not necessarily UKB members), of all classes and demographics, who seem to think that the only way to avoid being an "utter fucking wankstain" is to stay at home and be as miserable as possible, preferably while scouring social media for people to have a go at for committing the sin of having fun.

[nai]

for people who enjoy it it's a very mindful, meditative pastime

Like yoga only harder to do from home.

[petejh]

Many many people out there (not necessarily UKB members), of all classes and demographics, who seem to think that the only way to avoid being an "utter fucking wankstain" is to stay at home and be as miserable as possible, preferably while scouring social media for people to have a go at for committing the sin of having fun.

They're all probably anti bolts as well. Wankers. (Except JB)

[Paul B]

The Canal and Rivers Trust are asking people to report anyone fishing on canals to the police and the Environment Agency.

Link to your original complaint then please?

Looking at their Twitter account:
https://twitter.com/CanalRiverTrust/status/1242782609631072261?s=20
https://twitter.com/CanalRiverTrust/status/1242748091838717953?s=20

[tomtom]

Just lock everyone the fuck down, get it over with quicker, and let's stop pretending that running is somehow more valid or less dangerous than sunbathing.

Barrows you have a good point there. And that cuts to the issue - by allowing exercise - it means that definition is open to interpretation. Which is further muddied by ministers saying it’s good for people to go and get some fresh air.

Which is why people go and sit in the sun in a park! From a disease transference point of view - people spaced 2-3 m apart in a park sat on their arse are less of a problem than a stream of heavily breathing runners going along paths.

Will. You’re fortunate you have somewhere that quiet to take your nipper to look at stuff in a stream.
 
On Thursday I was kicked out of a deserted (large) car park section of an outpatients hospital 2 min from home - where Our lad was scootering up and down.... parks are busy with people - even pavements are busy with sweaty millennials  working off some hormones.

I’ve gone out for an evening walk a couple of times - but stopped now - it feels more stressful avoiding people than just staying at home and doing some TV HIIT or playing on my board.

I wish for somewhere with less people.

[Oldmanmatt]

Many many people out there (not necessarily UKB members), of all classes and demographics, who seem to think that the only way to avoid being an "utter fucking wankstain" is to stay at home and be as miserable as possible, preferably while scouring social media for people to have a go at for committing the sin of having fun.

They're all probably anti bolts as well. Wankers. (Except JB)

I’m guessing, from this comment, you didn’t grow up ina small village did you Will?
Without the social media (replaced by, watching through net curtains and muttered conversation during Wednesday Coffee Morning in the Hall) your described individual fits everybody over the age of 50 in a 1970’s Cornish village...

[Bonjoy]

I haven't been out climbing any more than the most ardent stay at home nazi, I was making a point about justifications.
Climbers have accepted (through varying levels of gritted teeth) that we wont go climbing under lockdown. For many the principal reason is not to avoid spreading CV or risking use of emergency services, as for quite a few people these can be reduced to the point where they are irrelevant compared to all other non proscribed activities, including cycling. What's left is towing the line to avoid weakening the general consensus and resolve of everyone else. So it is very galling when cyclist come on a climbing forum and outline the sketchy justification for them treating the lockdown as a cycling bonanza. When we all know the soul reason they're cycling is that the govt wording gives them enough leeway to claim special exemption from the extreme level of risk assessment other outdoor activities are subject to.

Regards travel, lots of folk are within a short walk of a crag. If you're not then it's obviously climbing is not on. Biking to a boulder not requiring a pad is a whole different can of worms I guess.

[Will Hunt]

Had the government's announcement been "exercise, for example walking or a run", the activity would be no less legal, but the good people of the country would be setting wires across the roads at neck height.

[Stu Littlefair]

Regards travel, lots of folk are within a short walk of a crag. If you're not then it's obviously climbing is not on.

It’s this bit that needs careful unpacking. Lots of people are within short walking distance of a crag, but what would be the effect on transmission if half of sheffield’s climbers rocked up at bell hagg?

In order to disperse the climbing population widely amongst outdoor venues requires people to travel, simple as.

[kac]

Jon I don't disagree with what your saying but its a bit insensitive to associate the word nazi with those saying we should stay at home. Nothing else to add as Stu is basically summing up my thoughts.

[Stu Littlefair]

To be clearer. If we could all go bouldering without travelling to do so, and if we could be confident of being the only people at the crag, I’d be pretty happy about everyone climbing. I reckon the minor transmission risk of other people using the holds before would easily be handled with hand wipes.

The problem is that isn’t possible. Both the IFs in the paragraph fail if any number of us head out.

The same simply isn’t true of road cyclists, they can stay well isolated and don’t need to travel to bike. More power to them I say, though I can understand it sticking in people’s throats that someone else gets to do their hobby and we don’t.

Edited to say if you can fulfil the two criteria in the first para I’d say knock yourself out, but maybe keep it to yourself ;-)

[abarro81]

The alternative view is that going out and smashing a 50km bike ride is travelling*. The petrol station argument is a bit of a non-starter as you can just fill up locally anyway - it's less interaction and risk than buying beer. So then it's the safety argument, which means - to my mind - you'd need to demonstrate that cycling is less dangerous than driving, in current road conditions, for the travelling argument to hold much weight in a world where cycling is ok. Or the cyclists just accept that their argument is at least 50% bollocks, but who gives a fuck because we're all hypocritical dicks anyway, you'll be able to cycle unless we go full lockdown, and right/wrong probably doesn't exist anyway.

Obviously this doesn't address the meeting people at the crag argument, which takes us back to where we started: doing sensible shit is fine, but people aren't sensible, so it's much better to just ban the fuck out of everything, drop R lower, and have a shorter lockdown.

*not if you just go around the block 200 times obviously, but then you'll be so dizzy that it will defo be dangerous

My earlier caveat applies as ever: "as for everyone else, that's just some shit I made up based on nothing"

[Paul B]

So it is very galling when cyclist come on a climbing forum and outline the sketchy justification for them treating the lockdown as a cycling bonanza.

Because nobody could possibly partake in both?

The word 'bonanza' is also a stretch; it's a bonanza in the context that you're less likely to get squished by something made of metal weighing in at around 1000kg plus.

To be clearer. If we could all go bouldering without travelling to do so, and if we could be confident of being the only people at the crag, I’d be pretty happy about everyone climbing. I reckon the minor transmission risk of other people using the holds before would easily be handled with hand wipes.

The problem is that isn’t possible. Both the IFs in the paragraph fail if any number of us head out.

The same simply isn’t true of road cyclists, they can stay well isolated and don’t need to travel to bike. More power to them I say, though I can understand it sticking in people’s throats that someone else gets to do their hobby and we don’t.

Edited to say if you can fulfil the two criteria in the first para I’d say knock yourself out, but maybe keep it to yourself ;-)

If you want an idea of how isolated, yesterday's ride saw two people come past us. One looked like a bottle of Alpecin and went past at a pace I couldn't fathom. The most interaction I had was with an escaped sheep.

[Stu Littlefair]

Fair point about travelling Alex. To me the 30min ride round dam flask from my house felt like the most isolated thing I’ve done since lockdown, but who knows how it looks to the lower Bradfield residents who see people cycling through all day?

[RobinB]

treating the lockdown as a cycling bonanza

I don't think (or would hope) that anybody is treating this as a cycling bonanza Jon. Rather, just thankful that there is a way of getting out of the house for an hour or so to get some fresh air.
Hope you enjoyed your ride around Damflask Stu - I was in that area today but kept to the more remote roads around Ughill etc for exactly the reasons you mention re Bradfield residents and how they might perceive cyclists in the current situation. As per Paul's experience, I think I saw a few other cyclists, some sheep and the obligatory black Audi doing about 120 mph on the (almost) traffic free roads

[chris j]

treating the lockdown as a cycling bonanza

I don't think (or would hope) that anybody is treating this as a cycling bonanza

I don't think Ryan Evans has quite the same thought process. 47 hours out on the bike this week...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-lockdown-cyclists-stretch-daily-bike-ride-to-200-miles-g0lcg7hzg?shareToken=1188b2e187d08aaf5de789d9be8acc61

[petejh]

I just want to chip in with: you’re all a bunch of Peak-centric people the way you’re talking on this thread.
I have the mythical circumstances Stu mentions. I can boulder away, not be seen by the public, not share the crag with any others, and it’s a close walk. There’ll be others in similar circumstances. The decisions most people are expressing on this thread are peak-based decisions or applicable to other ‘populated areas’ (and I agree with you - you shouldn’t be seen setting an example); but don’t reflect the wider world outside those areas where population of climbers is sparser.

[tomtom]

Pete - geographically they may not represent the wider world - but it does represent the wider climbing population.

[petejh]

The wider climbing population is irrelevant if you have the circumstances Stu mentions. What someone in Manchester thinks is irrelevant to what someone in Wales thinks about the crag just down the road that no one uses. 

[teestub]

Edited to say if you can fulfil the two criteria in the first para I’d say knock yourself out, but maybe keep it to yourself ;-)

Think you missed this bit Pete 😂

[petejh]

Yeah fair enough, just gets a bit annoying reading people saying climbing is irresponsible when really all they’re commenting on is their own specific circumstances in the peak or a.n.other populated English area that you’re unlucky enough to live in (tongue firmly in cheek). You’re not the be-all of climbing.

[tomtom]

The wider climbing population is irrelevant if you have the circumstances Stu mentions. What someone in Manchester thinks is irrelevant to what someone in Wales thinks about the crag just down the road that no one uses.

My point was - that I'd argue (and I think I'm right) that the wider climbing population (most of them) has to travel (as in get in a car) to go climbing... even in Sheffield. Not of course if you're that bloke in the strava group who does 200mile bike rides :D