[Yossarian]

I think this Tweet from Will Wiles yesterday perfectly sums up the problem...

The fissile centre of the English soul is the irreconcilable conflict between belief in one's own inviolable freedom, and belief that others are taking liberties.
https://twitter.com/WillWiles/status/1248555486884106250

[tomtom]

Using the cycling - bouldering comparison, I’m guessing cycling clubs are not going out in peletons at the moment - the equivalent of some mates bouldering together...

[petejh]

Somewhere there's a road biking forum where they've all agreed that they should stick to the turbo for biking but that a spot of lowball bouldering is probably fine...

Likewise I wonder if somewhere there's a forum of government MPs debating the state of climbing.. and whether they should logpile the DFBWGC thread (dead fit backbenchers who go to committees)

[tomtom]

Maybe that’s what’s been occupying Priti Patel for the last 3 weeks...

[HarryBD]

Using the cycling - bouldering comparison, I’m guessing cycling clubs are not going out in peletons at the moment - the equivalent of some mates bouldering together...

All clubs I have been part of have cancelled ‘club runs’ for the foreseeable. Old uni club probably a bit later than was sensible...

Imagine there’s a lot of anxiety amongst amateur racers that their rivals are all getting fitter by bending the guidance to suit their 100mile essential training spins. The full-time racer living out the pocket of Mum and Dad is a pretty big thing in cycling - lots treating it as their ‘job’ they get paid a few fuckalls for. They couldn’t do that from home.

[Oldmanmatt]

Maybe that’s what’s been occupying Priti Patel for the last 3 weeks...

She’s probably dead (or, at least, undead) but really only fit for an Infowars editorship.

[Alex-the-Alex]

Yeah I know the arguments and generally agree. I just don't like the way things are headed with police involvement and shaming. I don't think it's black and white and circumstances can differ massively. I realise public perception is such a big part of this though and rational arguments don't make a dent there...

[tomtom]

I’m sure there are plenty of floutings of the rules in Spain, France and Italy... i can’t help but think that the french/Spanish system where you have to go online and register then print out a form saying you’re allowed to go out would make it black and white to police.

But we traditionally police by consent etc...

[Wil]

The full-time racer living out the pocket of Mum and Dad is a pretty big thing in cycling - lots treating it as their ‘job’ they get paid a few fuckalls for. They couldn’t do that from home.

Plenty of these in the (competition) climbing world, but most seem to have their own wall to train on at home.

It's interesting that the "full time climber" has gone from dirtbags, drugs and danger where making money from it is seen as selling out, to the sanitized world of competitions where despite not making money you describe yourself as professional.

[RobinB]

I've not contributed to these forums for a while but have been interested in the ongoing debate about whether bouldering outside and road cycling are still acceptable. Like most people who have posted, I realised pretty early on that bouldering outside isn't really acceptable in the current climate (unless you have the mythical boulder in your back garden, within walking distance of your house etc).
However, as somebody who dabbles in both, I think that road cycling - .as long as you're cycling by yourself, have backup from somebody who lives at the same address and can pick you up in the event of a complete mechanical, use quiet roads, don't stop in small Peak district villages to buy cake etc - I.e. act sensibly - then this is still a viable form of exercise in the current lock-down.
However dull road cycling might be perceived by some boulderers, it's nowhere near as boring as finger-boarding or other forms of home training. It also definitely doesn't bulk your leg muscles out (mine are still sparrow thin). Give it a go - you might enjoy it!

[robertostallioni]

Plenty of these in the (competition) climbing world, but most seem to have their own wall to train on at home.

It's interesting that the "full time climber" has gone from dirtbags, drugs and danger where making money from it is seen as selling out, to the sanitized world of competitions where despite not making money you describe yourself as professional.

Thats not my experience at all. None of the competition climbers I know would describe themselves as "pro climbers". They make their money as routesetters and describe themselves thus.
I would expect from the comp climbing scene only Shauna is actually a professional, with 2-3 more heavily sponsored full-time climbers.
I'm sure we have more pro climbers out there, but not in the comp climbing ranks.

[Wil]

[quote author=robertostallioni link=topic=30540.msg604627#msg604627 date=15866
Thats not my experience at all. None of the competition climbers I know would describe themselves as "pro climbers".
[/quote]

I used a very broad brush there didn't I? You're right, but there is still a shift in the attitude towards professionalism.

I had a look through the Instagram accounts of the current GB Senior Men's and Women's teams. Obviously not a perfect measure, but 6 describe themselves as "Pro Climbers" in their Bio, 3 as routesetters, none as both. It would be interesting to know how many actually make the majority of their income from sponsorships, I think 4 from the list I looked at, with 2 making a reasonably good living. I've met most of the GB team at some point, but I don't have much experience with people who might be on the boundaries of it, so I've no idea beyond social media presentations. It's not a criticism of them, just an observation.

[Alex-the-Alex]

However, as somebody who dabbles in both, I think that road cycling - .as long as you're cycling by yourself, have backup from somebody who lives at the same address and can pick you up in the event of a complete mechanical, use quiet roads, don't stop in small Peak district villages to buy cake etc - I.e. act sensibly - then this is still a viable form of exercise in the current lock-down.

Again not being critical, I've been out on my bike, but I think you're applying the same ifs and buts as others are to other activities. But the risk of clattering yourself is still much higher than other activities. You don't have to be racing to hit a pothole. Then your interacting with everyone in A&E. Personally I think the risk can be managed and can be acceptable in most cases (your ifs and buts), but I find it strange that people are applying very different levels of acceptability to different activities.

[RobinB]

the risk of clattering yourself is still much higher than other activities

I would dispute the 'much higher than other activities' bit. As long as you're sensible going downhill and don't do anything silly, the risk can be minimised. With the vastly reduced amount of motorised traffic on the road, I think the main cause of risk has been significantly taken away.
Any activity has some element of risk - and hence possible burden on the Accident and Emergency services. I can't say for certain that I won't have an accident on my road bike but I would hope that it is unlikely. Indoor finger-boarding does carry some risk - but I think most people would consider this to be acceptable.
I suspect one of the main causes of call-outs to the Emergency services over the next few weeks will be from DIY accidents as a result of people being stuck in their own homes for a prolonged period

[Bonjoy]

I would dispute the 'much higher than other activities' bit. As long as you're sensible going downhill how high you climb and don't do anything silly, the risk can be minimised. With the vastly reduced amount of motorised traffic on the road people at the (carefully selected obscure and local) crag, I think the main cause of risk has been significantly taken away.
Any activity has some element of risk - and hence possible burden on the Accident and Emergency services. I can't say for certain that I won't have an accident on my road bike lowball traverse but I would hope that it is unlikely.

Just sayin like...

[Will Hunt]

I found this thread to be incredibly depressing:
https://twitter.com/bexmo/status/1248588173447442432?s=21

I understand that London is so densely populated that maybe they have a different perspective on things. But people complaining about a 2 year old doing forward rolls in a park? Fucking hell!

Lots of people arguing that you can do yoga at home. You can also walk at home. Obviously.

[tomtom]

Cycling has the nod over bouldering because (a) it’s more popular - so more folk are likely do so it as their ‘exercise’ but also (b) because not many people use their bouldering mat to get to work....

But - what bonjoy points out above... 👆

[nai]

and perhaps because it's actually stated as an appropriate form of exercise in the examples given by the government?

[abarro81]

The gov saying something makes it legally right, but doesn't really impact on whether it's morally  right or logically coherent (for now let's avoid questions about whether moral absolutes exist)...

That Twitter thread, and the police actions, are depressing. This shit will backfire too - I like to follow rules, but if a policeman told me off for something I'd probably stop doing it and come back later and carry on, because there's too much evidence of police dumbness for me to respect their opinion (plus a £30 fine is hardly a big deal)

[Will Hunt]

The Canal and Rivers Trust are asking people to report anyone fishing on canals to the police and the Environment Agency.

[petejh]

Try to look at it from the police's viewpoint Alex. The goal of the restrictions is to reduce numbers of people going outside except for 'essential' activities. It's shit being the park nazis but they've been handed a shit remit.

[Stu Littlefair]

Cycling is better than bouldering because you can do it from out of your front door. Bouldering at popular spots is likely to be worse for transmission because of people spending time in proximity to each other, but the big argument against bouldering in out of the way spots is that you have to drive somewhere to do it. The arguments for and against that have been well hashed out in this thread, but the inarguable fact is that it isn’t an issue for cyclists.

Many people have argued on this thread that we need to cut some people slack before judging their behaviour on social media. I agree with that, but i think it works both ways. People are scared. And even those who aren’t scared get angry when they are restricting themselves and see others failing to do the same. Those threads are sad because they’re uncivil, but I don’t judge the people on them.

[Paul B]

The Canal and Rivers Trust are asking people to report anyone fishing on canals to the police and the Environment Agency.

There's an article here from July 2019:
https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/fishing/related-articles/the-fisheries-and-angling-team/reporting-people-taking-fish-away-from-canals-and-stillwaters

But - what bonjoy points out above... 👆

EDIT: Just read Stu's post instead.

How do you get there, and from how far away is reasonable to travel (bearing in mind that travel for exercise is currently being discouraged)? What would you expect at the honey pot locations (for instance Longridge, Malham and Kilnsey; i.e. the places where people can't even park sensibly on a busy day)?

I'd be very unconvinced that as a group we'd cover ourselves in glory even if members of this parish are skilled in the dark art of esoteric lowball bouldering.

It's not that I disagree and think there's inherently more risk in Bonjoy et al. going somewhere Monkey Boy made look good on a video compared with me going out on two wheels, I just don't see how you can do that within the guidance issued and I have little faith that the majority wouldn't end up at Stanage (probably from far and wide).

[RobinB]

Agree with the above points - I think that the risk of calling out the emergency services whether road cycling or lowball bouldering are similarly low. However, the key point that Stu makes above is how you get there. As soon as you need to get in a car to get somewhere, the risk increases (stopping at petrol stations etc etc). Also, as Paul suggests, the inevitable result of allowing bouldering would be groups of people gathering at popular locations such as Stanage planation.
On a more positive note, one of the impacts of having less cars on the road is that some of the people that seem to be getting out on 2 wheels are (what I assume to be) small family groups including younger kids.

[abarro81]

However, the key point that Stu makes above is how you get there.

But it's ok for a minister to drive 40miles to drop groceries off at his parents, even though their neighbours were already doing that? 

Pete - no doubt it's a tough job, but I'm not comfortable with the police being able to decide that walking is valid but yoga isn't, cycling is valid but front rolls aren't. Just lock everyone the fuck down, get it over with quicker, and let's stop pretending that running is somehow more valid or less dangerous than sunbathing.