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Climbing during CV-19 (Read 288137 times)

TobyD

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#750 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 01:29:03 pm
Re going out cycling. If a fit road cyclist can smash out 50+ km in 2 hours, I can't see anything wrong in that. I'm going road cycling at the moment although not that far as I'm definitely not fit! I doubt I'm within 5m of anyone who isn't an inconsiderate driver passing too close. It's safe as there are hardly any cars on the road, and my front door and bike handlebars are the only thing I touch with gloved hands.
I think that remaining clearly within the spirit of the guidelines is the way to go. I could walk to a crag in about an hour, but I'd see that as taking the piss, and am not doing that, any more than I'd go to the park for a picnic.

Stu Littlefair

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#751 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 01:29:31 pm
I wrote a big post about my feelings on this, which are complex and subtle and poorly dealt with online. So I deleted it.

But I do think that it’s actually amazing and heartening how many people are behaving responsibly, despite how grim it is. Focusing on the one or two people who may not be winds everyone up on both sides.

Maybe it distracts us from feeling good about the way most of us are actually behaving, and giving ourselves some encouragement and a pat on the back?

TobyD

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#752 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 01:31:01 pm
I suspect it's mostly just because people like to be angry on the internet, especially when bored/angry in real life. Half of the people getting outraged by someone climbing some lowball choss in the middle of nowhere whilst out for a walk will have just been for an hour long run, or will have spent an extra 10 min in the supermarket because they wanted to buy some alcohol and easter eggs... despite the fact that neither are essential.

What about those buying non-essential alcohol and easter eggs, AND going bouldering? They should burn in hell.

(no such thing as non-essential alcohol and chocolate btw)

Yes Alex! Just because you don't consider alcohol essential doesn't mean everyone does. Alcoholic self medication after work is essential at the moment.

T_B

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#753 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 01:31:12 pm
Its an interesting point actually. I suppose it helps to reassure the online climbing community that they're doing the right thing by not climbing and should continue to do so?

I suspect it's mostly just because people like to be angry on the internet, especially when bored/angry in real life. Half of the people getting outraged by someone climbing some lowball choss in the middle of nowhere whilst out for a walk will have just been for an hour long run, or will have spent an extra 10 min in the supermarket because they wanted to buy some alcohol and easter eggs... despite the fact that neither are essential.

It’s grief, apparently. Manifesting itself in anger.

Grief for loss of your previous life, loss of control, no longer being able to do the things you enjoy etc.

Probably why it doesn’t seem that bad if you’ve got kids  :lol:.


petejh

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#754 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 01:40:09 pm
I got easter eggs delivered with my shopping. Should I cover myself in hammer and sickle stickers and feed myself to daily mail readers in penance? Confusing times.

Reckless purchasing of non-essential chocolate (except no such thing exists), and risking diabetes - thus imposing extra demand on the NHS. Staked out on Rannoch Moor for the midges to eat you.


Disclosure: big house and nice garden, countryside, hills, mountains, beaches and loads of nice footpaths to walk on from my front door. Discrete low-ball lime bouldering crag within an easy 30 min walk or 10 minute ride of my house. Crag is  hidden from view, no-one walks past it as it isn't on a footpath, no-one else except one person goes there as it's off the radar, decent quality up probs and fitness traverses, mix of sunny and shady, good conditions right now. Sucks to live in a city right now :tease:
 

GazM

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#755 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 01:45:28 pm
Probably why it doesn’t seem that bad if you’ve got kids  :lol:.

That made me laugh! So true. With a 4 month old and a 2.5yr old our lives haven't really changed at all!

AMorris

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#756 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 01:58:51 pm
Re going out cycling. If a fit road cyclist can smash out 50+ km in 2 hours, I can't see anything wrong in that. I'm going road cycling at the moment although not that far as I'm definitely not fit! I doubt I'm within 5m of anyone who isn't an inconsiderate driver passing too close. It's safe as there are hardly any cars on the road, and my front door and bike handlebars are the only thing I touch with gloved hands.
I think that remaining clearly within the spirit of the guidelines is the way to go. I could walk to a crag in about an hour, but I'd see that as taking the piss, and am not doing that, any more than I'd go to the park for a picnic.

I see your point, but I do not think it is quite so simple. It has not yet been fully elucidated how much aerosol transmission plays a part in the spread of COVID-19, and rudimentary simulations suggest that there could be a conversation to be had about the capacity of a runner or cycler, who is covering a large distance, to leave behind them an effective 'aerosol wake'. It stands to reason that the larger distance you cover, the more likely you are to come in to contact with/spread COVID-19.

I feel like going for a 50km cycle, as 'allowed' as it is right now, is not clearly within the spirit of the guidelines at all, since all of the guidelines are designed to prevent excessive movement of people.

Just to be clear, I am not trying to dictate anyones behaviour, nor am I calling for anything to be banned or guidelines to be tightened. I do think that conversation should be balanced, however.

Nigel

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#757 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 02:19:01 pm
Are people with the virus likely to be running / cycling? Genuine question btw, I have zero medical knowledge.

I had some ailment back in late feb, similar to the described symptoms of covid (not saying it was that though). I could barely be arsed to go to the bog, never mind run.

sdm

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#758 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 02:20:47 pm
Are people with the virus likely to be running / cycling? Genuine question btw, I have zero medical knowledge.
Yes. There are a large number who are either asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic.

mrjonathanr

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#759 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 02:21:35 pm
If you are asymptonatic you won’t have symptoms.

abarro81

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#760 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 02:33:53 pm
What about those buying non-essential alcohol and easter eggs, AND going bouldering? They should burn in hell.

At least they're internal consistent ;)

It's safe as there are hardly any cars on the road

You consider it to be safe, like others consider other things to be safe. All of this is just internal risk assessments, usually based on no evidence. Since biking is typically ~15-40x more dangerous per km than drving (https://www.cyclinguk.org/blog/road-casualties-2018-vital-statistics-cycle-campaigning), unless you know how many of those incidents are being removed by the reduced traffic it's all just rough swags, generally done internally and without actually working out what it is you're making estimates for...

I don't think it makes any sense for people to get too sanctimonious and self-righteous about things like someone climbing some lowball piece of choss near their house, especially unless the preacher is literally leaving the house once every 2-3 weeks to do a single, efficient, shop for food that's essential.

Personally I think most people are operating within the letter, not the spirit, of the advice when doing more than 20-30min exercise 2-4 times per week. But as for everyone else, that's just some shit I made up based on nothing but what is/isn't important to me and the perceived risks and guessed perceptions-of/influence-on others in the community. And that advice is just broad brush strokes based on broad brush stroke models and limited data anyway.


Grief for loss of your previous life, loss of control, no longer being able to do the things you enjoy etc.

Very much so.

p.s. screw having kids.
p.p.s. I hope you fall off and get your brush stuck up your bum Pete.

Will Hunt

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#761 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 02:34:07 pm
Re going out cycling. If a fit road cyclist can smash out 50+ km in 2 hours, I can't see anything wrong in that.

Whoa whoa whoa! You've taken quite a hard line on this, Toby, so this surprises me. When I've been on my bike I've generally stayed within a distance of home which, if push came to shove, I could walk back from (in the event of a big mechanical which I couldn't fix without assistance - very unlikely). This is a bit overkill as my wife could get the kids in the car and come and get me (though there would be some wrath to suffer). But 50km? Max distance from home of 25km? Is anyone really going to be able to walk that home? I'm surprised that that seems OK when compared with some of the things that you're saying aren't OK.

But I do think that it’s actually amazing and heartening how many people are behaving responsibly, despite how grim it is. Focusing on the one or two people who may not be winds everyone up on both sides.

This. There were some pictures on the news of some Londoners in a park and everyone going mental that "this will make the lockdown stricter and spoil it for the rest of us". A handful of Londoners in a densely packed area, miles apart from each other in a huge park. You're never going to get 100% compliance. The images seemed fine to me.

teestub

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#762 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 02:36:39 pm
But 50km? Max distance from home of 25km?

You know it’s possible to ride 50 km without being further than a few km from your home if you want to right?

Will Hunt

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#763 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 02:39:04 pm
But 50km? Max distance from home of 25km?

You know it’s possible to ride 50 km without being further than a few km from your home if you want to right?

Somehow I'm guessing that's not what was happening, but I could be wrong.

abarro81

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#764 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 02:41:32 pm
I'm surprised that that seems OK when compared with some of the things that you're saying aren't OK.

I think people are mostly being lead by instinct and group-think, not rational assessments of anything. I include myself in that, but less so than the people buying alcohol and then drinking it at home after their long run/bike which was essential for maintaining health, whilst telling people off for sunbathing 20m away from anyone else.

You know it’s possible to ride 50 km without being further than a few km from your home if you want to right?

You could do it in your 2m long back yard even.

teestub

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#765 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 02:44:04 pm

You could do it in your 2m long back yard even.

Might be hard to maintain the 25km/hr average that Toby was talking about then!

Will, plenty of examples on my Strava of people doing relatively tight loops both running and cycling.

abarro81

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#766 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 02:48:31 pm
Might be hard to maintain the 25km/hr average that Toby was talking about then!

Et voila!


Might get quite dizzy on a 2m diameter though.

petejh

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#767 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 02:50:41 pm
p.p.s. I hope you fall off and get your brush stuck up your bum Pete.

Note to self, remove brush from chalkbag. (IF I was to actually go climbing of course).


I think there'll be relatively very few climbers living in circumstances that allow them to go climbing without it either:
a. being picked up on by other people (because it's a bit public)
b. feeling to the climber like it's taking the piss a little bit out of the spirit of the guidance (assuming climber has a reasonably moral conscience) because it's either:
  1. potentially a bit dangerous
  2. potentially risks spreading virus because the crag is shared with many others.

Then there's the absurdity of people posting on insta/twiter/FB what they're actually up to. Can't understand why you'd do this, except if you've become so addicted to digital likes from strangers that you can't do anything without them.

That leaves a relatively small number of people living in fortunate circumstances.

SA Chris

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#768 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 02:55:09 pm
I have about a half dozen options fitting the criteria. Could even stash a pad and shoes that would be safely left there.

all criteria that is, except b. feeling to the climber like it's taking a little bit of the piss out of the spirit of the guidance and not because of 1. or 2.

petejh

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#769 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 03:03:29 pm
I guess that's the heart of the chatter on here and elsewhere. What's taking the piss and what isn't - I think this is fairly black and white, mostly don't climb, but there clearly are circumstances that are OK to all but the most extremist stayathomer - I'm talking the people who live out in the sticks or in quiet areas and have a hidden-from-view lowball boulder in their locale that no-one else uses.
Then there's the what 'feels', to different people, like taking the piss. Much more fuzzy and the source of all this angst.


edit: what makes it taking the piss to you if you went to one of those spots SA? Is it the fact others would know? Or just you wouldn't feel good?

SA Chris

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#770 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 03:07:28 pm
I don't want to feel like I shouldn't be there, the whole time I'm climbing, I just wouldn't enjoy it.

And besides the haar has just come in :)

petejh

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#771 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 03:09:42 pm
Ah just saw you answered before I posted my question. Fair enough. Clear cut for you then.

abarro81

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#772 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 03:15:54 pm
Apparently it's not just idle folk on ukb discussing what is/isn't ok, even the police still have to tell their own officers off (for telling people not to use their gardens)
https://twitter.com/grandad1975/status/1248247686563631104

Duma

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#773 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 03:20:44 pm
What stu said. I think the public in general have been amazing about this, especially those in cities and considering the amazing weather.

And its def no worse to do safe lowballs walking distance from your house than going on a bike ride/run imo, just don't do it somewhere public, and don't post online about it.

Also what barrows said about Pete getting his brush stuck up his bum.

petejh

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#774 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 10, 2020, 03:23:54 pm
Apparently it's not just idle folk on ukb discussing what is/isn't ok, even the police still have to tell their own officers off (for telling people not to use their gardens)
https://twitter.com/grandad1975/status/1248247686563631104


Christ that's grim. The grimness of stupidity. Like I say, sucks right now to live in a city or densely-populated area with nannies like that around. On the other hand I bet her job sucks right now too, having to deal with bozos like that who appear to enjoy arguing the toss like a stroppy teenager.

 

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