[Johnny Brown]

So Mrs T_B has just driven 20 mins out to the Peak to a food wholesaler, so that she can reduce the number of journeys to local supermarkets.

Should she have gone for a stroll along Curbar on her way back

Wow, this just goes to show what completely different pages people are on. I wouldn't dream of driving 20 mins from Sheffield to shop in a different community. The risk of transmission from a walk at Curbar seems irrelevant in comparison.

I'm normally a BMC cheerleader but I feel badly let down on this occasion. The message 'the hills are closed' seems to be completely the wrong one. It should be get outside, stay healthy, but whatever you do stay local and maintain distancing.

[Johnny Brown]

OMM - roundup works a treat on Blackthorn. Doesn’t touch many weed/shrubs/trees (eg gorse) but nails Blackthorn with a normal dose.

I thought Roundup had been banned due to being carcinogenic?

[mrjonathanr]

Glyphosphate is to be banned in the next few years in various countries. still on sale for a year or two. It does this:https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/aug/10/monsanto-trial-cancer-dewayne-johnson-ruling

[tomtom]

Yup. It does nasty stuff. Nearly added that caveat to my post. But it works on blackthorn. Alright if you wear some gloves and don’t go near it for a good while?

[T_B]

So Mrs T_B has just driven 20 mins out to the Peak to a food wholesaler, so that she can reduce the number of journeys to local supermarkets.

Should she have gone for a stroll along Curbar on her way back

Wow, this just goes to show what completely different pages people are on. I wouldn't dream of driving 20 mins from Sheffield to shop in a different community.

Click and collect from an industrial estate. They stick the goods in your boot.

Do you mean the risk from the car breaking down?

I don’t understand how that’s a greater risk than the alternative, which is physically going into Tesco on Abbeydale Road more frequently? Abbeydale road Tesco hardly being a ‘local’ shop I.e. people travel from all over SW Sheffield (and the Peak!) to shop there.

[shark]

New advice for shark on the oak. Drive faster.

Want a lift?

As we hurtled along country lanes in Simon Lee's over-powered BMW estate-car-of-death I was feeling very excited, and not a little bit nervous.

[Johnny Brown]

Coick and collect...

Ah ok, I'd pictured some Makro place full of farmers! Don't listen to me anyway everyone thinks I've got it all wrong. Not breaking down, having a crash.

[galpinos]

I'm normally a BMC cheerleader but I feel badly let down on this occasion. The message 'the hills are closed' seems to be completely the wrong one. It should be get outside, stay healthy, but whatever you do stay local and maintain distancing.

What else could they do? Have to spoken to Elfyn Jones (assuming you are all in contact in the "access" world)?

I don't think people think you have got it wrong as such. I would say I feel like the current population enforced lockdown isn't going to last, people already seem to be looking for loop holes (see tomtom's post) and that we, as responsible citizens, should avoid helping that by not going against the spirit* of the government guidance. My kids are going batty and we currently live in quite a big house, have a garden and a decent sized park within a half mile walk. I've no idea how a family of four in a two bed flat on the seventh floor of an city centre apartment block are coping. There's a lot of people giving up quite a lot (including those risking quite a lot) to try and make this work, I feel we an forego climbing for a bit in order to help out.

*Obviously the messaging has been all over the shop form the government with police forces/the public claiming rules that don't exist (type and frequency of exercise) but we all know the intent is to only do low risk exercise from your door.

[Offwidth]

I'm normally a BMC cheerleader but I feel badly let down on this occasion. The message 'the hills are closed' seems to be completely the wrong one. It should be get outside, stay healthy, but whatever you do stay local and maintain distancing.

The main message IS go outside, stay healthy, but whatever you do stay local and maintain social distancing.

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/climbing-and-hill-walking-its-time-to-put-it-on-hold

On the one hand Pete is telling us, as main national advice, it's common sense and on the other some feel really let down. How exactly should the BMC nuance the national message but deal with the points on MR etc that Elfyn rightly raises? This must be worth some constructive discussion. Do people seriously think the BMC won't be front and centre if police abuse their powers when dealing with members and the wider community?

When we come out of this mess we will be facing losses of businesses related to indoor climbing and outdoor activities (ie for activities under the BMC remit). The BMC and its clubs and Mountain Training will almost certainly take a big financial hit. Getting the national balance sheets back in order, after providing the money to keep the economy going in a crisis, might lead to more austerity... we all know how this impacted important public finance that relates to climbing and hillwalking issues (like the funding crises in our National Parks). We are also awaiting feedback on the consultation on the proposed new tresspass laws, that, if they come out badly for climbers, might make Will's current FPN concerns seem trivial in comparison.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/strengthening-police-powers-to-tackle-unauthorised-encampments

[Offwidth]

... and a decent sized park within a half mile walk.  I've no idea how a family of four in a two bed flat on the seventh floor of an city centre apartment block are coping.

For city dwellers, like me,  I think most people have a park within a mile. I expected to be forced out of our nearest parks by overcrowding but the 'traffic' in our nearest park (Coppice Park not so far from the middle of St Anns) is low..... mainly dog-walkers and 'bench sitters' ... but occasionally we see no-one when going several times around our various loops (the longest being about half a km). Goodness knows what the majority of people are doing in all those inner city flats.

[mark20]

“Police chiefs have told officers that people should not be punished for driving a reasonable distance to exercise“
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/31/uk-police-reissued-with-guidance-on-enforcing-coronavirus-lockdown

[TobyD]

“Police chiefs have told officers that people should not be punished for driving a reasonable distance to exercise“
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/31/uk-police-reissued-with-guidance-on-enforcing-coronavirus-lockdown

This does not mean go climbing or hillwalking. Everyone should just exercise as close to where they live as possible. Let's just all do that and get this grimness over with as soon as possible.

[Johnny Brown]

Unless you live near a hill or moorland, in which case it's fine, and it's fine to drive a short distance. My main issue is that 'hillwalking' is far too broad. I don't believe in simple rules for simple people, if you treat people like idiots they will behave like idiots.

Peak National Park are now having problems with unauthorised footpath 'closures': https://www.peakdistrict.gov.uk/learning-about/news/current-news/peak-district-national-park-thanks-thousands-for-staying-away-but-urges-rights-of-way-remain-open-for-local-communities

Given their initial message that 'the National Park is closed' I'm not sure what they expected.

[Will Hunt]

“Police chiefs have told officers that people should not be punished for driving a reasonable distance to exercise“
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/31/uk-police-reissued-with-guidance-on-enforcing-coronavirus-lockdown

Have had a look but can't find the actual guidance anywhere. Anyone found it?

[BrutusTheBear]

Anyone considered the impact of having your car sat doing nothing for extended periods of time?

[Johnny Brown]

Yes, and then the single weekly drive to the supermarket for most will unlikely be be enough to get it up to temperature. Bad combo.

[abarro81]

Anyone considered the impact of having your car sat doing nothing for extended periods of time?

No more so than when it rains endlessly for a month or I go on holiday for 3 weeks 

[mark20]

Will I’ve not seen the official guidance from police chiefs either. Though the government website is actually quite interesting - https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus
Interestingly there is nothing specifically stating “don’t go to work , unless you’re a key worker” as is often said. As far as I can tell it is go to work, unless you can work from home, it is unsafe to do so, or someone in your household is self isolating.

Btw my previous post was not to imply that we can now all go climbing.

[Oldmanmatt]

Anyone considered the impact of having your car sat doing nothing for extended periods of time?

No more so than when it rains endlessly for a month or I go on holiday for 3 weeks 

None of you work off shore/at sea?

Never had a serious issue.
Move it a little so it’s not sat on the same spot of the tyres, once a week.

All I’ve ever done.

[kac]

The guidance is on the gov.uk website. I don't  know how to link things but have pasted some it it below. The issue is that the emergency law is worded differently and this is what the guardian article was getting at. I don't know what the precise wording is but Adam is almost certainly right that you can drive out climbing without breaking the law. But you wont be following the guidance on what we should be doing. Personally I think we should follow the guidance as well as the law so much as want to I won't be going out climbing.


1. When am I allowed to leave the house?
You should only leave the house for very limited purposes:

shopping for basic necessities, for example food and medicine, which must be as infrequent as possible
one form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household
any medical need, including to donate blood, avoid or escape risk of injury or harm, or to provide care or to help a vulnerable person
travelling for work purposes, but only where you cannot work from home

[gme]

Anyone considered the impact of having your car sat doing nothing for extended periods of time?

This wont be an issue at all. I have a car that doesnt go out all winter and its fine, also my van can not do more than a few miles for weeks on end.

[SA Chris]

Just make sure the batter doesn't go flat, i need to run the van every 3 weeks or so for a charge.

[Will Hunt]

Mark, kac, that is the government guidance that hasn't changed since the beginning of the shutdown (or at least from very soon after the shutdown. I think Johnson's address talked about not going to work unless you were critical, which was almost immediately [he misspoke?] relaxed). What I'm after is the police's updated guidance on how to enforce the government's legislation and guidance.

kac, you say you're not going climbing, that might be because your particular climbing desires and circumstances don't fit with the govt guidance, which is fair enough. The point that has been made a few times is that some limited climbing in certain circumstances is allowed under the guidance/law. I'm not suggesting we should flout either.

[kac]

As I understand it the legal powers are in THE Health protection coranavirus restrictions England regulations 2020. Im sure it comes up if googled.

Will I can be at burbage in 10 min. Ive climbed obsessively for over twenty years. Not going is nothing to do with my circumstances I just think it would be wrong to do so. If you think differently have fun - im only really asking you not to encourage others which if you think about it is in your best interests as if we all start climbing I expect they will change the law pretty soon.

[Ru]

Mark, kac, that is the government guidance that hasn't changed since the beginning of the shutdown (or at least from very soon after the shutdown. I think Johnson's address talked about not going to work unless you were critical, which was almost immediately [he misspoke?] relaxed). What I'm after is the police's updated guidance on how to enforce the government's legislation and guidance.

I don't know what the police's own internal guidance is but the law is in reg 6 of The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020. In terms of exercise, it mandates that no-one should leave the place where they live without reasonable excuse, which includes taking exercise alone or with members of their household. The "reasonable excuse" clause means that the exercise still needs to be reasonable within the spirit of the legislation, which is overall very restrictive, and would arguably also be interpreted in light of the current government guidance. I guess only the courts would be able to provide a definitive answer if there are prosecutions.