[petejh]

The thing I would worry about most is the impact on law and policing and individually on the most vulnerable who are frightened.  If nearly all people follow the rules, it won't be needed.

Climbers and hillwalkers should think about how their outdoor interests might be viewed by the public and police. Unlike Will I think the BMC have acted almost perfectly on this... any pushing back in the lockdown could have been damaging public and political opinion, that we might well need when this is all over. People should read Elfyn's plea again last Sunday evening, and the wide scope on which it was based. The BMC is still running but from individual homes of staff and volunteers. If you care about things like the future of access, given the inevitable financial pressures on the organisation, there has never been a better time for non-members to join.

  I'll rarely pass up an opportunity to scoff at BMC-worship by fan boys so thanks for this one:

It wasn't rocket science. Unless you were a complete idiot or had been living on Mars, then anyone with eyes and a brain could see that a message to climbers & hillwalkers, by the organisation that represents climbers & hillwalkers, saying 'please refrain from climbing or hillwalking for now until further notice' was required. Probably at around about the time that everyone else was putting out similar messages. They were actually a day or two behind some and ahead of others.

This is not the stuff of great leadership, just the BMC doing its job. It's not a reasonable argument either for or against the BMC. (but I'm glad they exist)

Obvious also, was to add in some bumf about the importance of being seen by others (inc. politicians) as a responsible group of people because it has potential to impact future access (as does every time we go into the outdoors on other people's land).
The most basic of local climber's access groups, organised around a bunch of enthusiasts on whatsapp, could have come up with the same thought process and message.


Much harder for a national government to get the messaging correct, when its intended for the whole population with different circumstances and needs, while attempting to balance a country's economy and potential death toll, while second-guessing myriad unintended consequences and also how it might play out politically in the short-to-long term.

[mr chaz]

15 minutes drive from my house to... no, no, 10 minutes.. no, 5 minutes drive from my house to... depends what you're driving   

[Stu Littlefair]

New advice for shark on the oak. Drive faster.

[nik at work]

I’m struggling to get too excited about testing. Current testing kits seem to be running at 70 - 30(!!!)% accuracy last time I looked into it....

I think rather than getting in a froth about whether someone can drive a short distance to a quiet spot for a walk or not I’d be plugging the very obvious gapping hole that is even if you are symptomatic and self isolating you are still allowed out for one session of exercise a day...

“If you are self-isolating, you must:

not leave your home for any reason, other than to exercise once a day – but stay at least 2 metres (3 steps) away from other people”

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/self-isolation-advice/

I feel for families stuck in small city centre flats being told they can’t get out anywhere other than local parks. I side with JB I think, I perhaps don’t have quite the same faith he does in human nature in this instance though... I suspect there could be chaos, but maybe with clear implementation, better guidance and some well thought out softly softly policing it could be workable...?

Full disclosure, I live in a good sized house with a big garden that backs onto easy access woodland that I can walk through for 10 minutes then cross a road to get to Millstone and the Burbage valley beyond...

And I reckon Gav should be allowed to surf if he is confident he can do it safely. As Bonjoy pointed out there’s not much opportunity for transmission in the sea...

[Footwork]

New advice for shark on the oak. Drive faster.

 

[kac]

very funny tomtom - i'm certainly not looking for an argument though, which is partly why I normally lurk on here rather than post. JB is right that the new law does not limit the exercise to once a day although the guidance clearly does. Its pretty clear there is some vagueness in both the law and the guidance and how it applies to lots of activities. If you are lucky enough to get out hopefully you can keep fairly quiet about it and not hurt yourself. And sorry for upsetting Will although just to clarify I was saying it was the people you encourage who may take the piss - what you described doing doesn't really sound unreasonable to me

[gme]

The guidance says you can leave the house for one form of exercise a day. Gove on the Marr show on Sunday suggested people use common sense - he suggested a run for 30 min or a cycle ride of up to an hour

I could cycle from my house for 10 mins to a bouldering spot, climb for 40 mins and cycle home. The cycling is without doubt the most dangerous bit, by a long shot.

[nik at work]

If the roads are anything like round here then road cycling is about as safe as it’s ever going to get...

[Will Hunt]

Unlike Will I think the BMC have acted almost perfectly on this... any pushing back in the lockdown could have been damaging public and political opinion, that we might well need when this is all over.

FFS, Steve. You are so predictable! We can always count on you to turn anything into an attack on the government or a defence of the BMC.

I'm not having a go at the BMC. I think their guidance, in the context of a national representative body and the time it was given, was fine. However I presume that the BMC did not know at the time that its statement might be looked to by the police and used as the basis for issuing climbers with FPNs for carrying out some hush-hush low-risk climbing. I don't think we're going to see this tested any time soon, but on the basis of what's happened with surfing where the police have referenced the national body's guidance, might the BMC consider softening the language just a little to make room for some common sense? Certainly opinion on this thread seems to have swung again to accept that there may be at least some kinds of climbing that can be reasonably carried out.

[Rob F]

Never mind driving faster, The Oak will have an Oak growing out from the undercut by the time that Shark next gets on it...

[kac]

Sounds great. I could do the same with bell hagg. Don't forget to wash your hands after.

[gme]

I will drop out of the conversation on this as i realise i am being deliberately contentious. I dont intend to go climbing but probably would go for a surf if it got reasonably good.

I do think climbers and the BMC jumped the gun though and we could be still getting climbing if it didnt involve car journeys but also dont think people should be driving out to the peak for a walk from sheffield as once one does it whats to stop the other half a million. However i am very lucky with where i live and appreciate its a lot harder if you live in the city.

[T_B]

So Mrs T_B has just driven 20 mins out to the Peak to a food wholesaler, so that she can reduce the number of journeys to local supermarkets.

Should she have gone for a stroll along Curbar on her way back, or joined the masses of dog walkers in Eccy woods (adjacent to where we live) who’ve driven (understandably) from the city to walk their dogs?!

Tricky.

[SA Chris]

I dont intend to go climbing but probably would go for a surf if it got reasonably good.

Cue commencement of flat calm on East Coast for the next 6 months.

[36chambers]

Should she have gone for a stroll along Curbar on her way back

This is kinda how it unfolds in my opinion. People who live walking distance from a crag start climbing, then people who drive past crags think "well it's no extra driving if I just stop for a quick potter", then people think "maybe a do a cheeky detour so I can swing by the crag for a potter, it doesn't add much", then people forget to go to the shops altogether and somehow end up at the crag. Then everyone and their dog are back out as normal.

I imagine the same scenario could apply to something like mountain biking, golf, and loads of other activities. And this is ultimately why I think Will Hunt shouldn't be allowed to climb on his local choss.

[Bradders]

Those people can feel free to report me to the Police because when I went for my run last week I actually stopped to do some stretching and I also walked some of the way.

I assume everyone who thinks it isn't acceptable to drive to exercise is also not driving to the supermarket and making do with what they can get from walking to their local shop?

Yesterday my partner and I walked to and from the supermarket for our weekly shop (2 mile round trip), and then took the dog for a walk in the evening! 

[andy popp]

I'm starting to feel really glad there are no crags and I don't have a car. This would be making my brain hurt.

[tomtom]

I'm starting to feel really glad there are no crags and I don't have a car. This would be making my brain hurt.

Yeah. Despite being 15-20 min drive from rock I’ve basically cut the idea from my mind. Ain’t gonna happen for months. Climbing kit is now in the cellar. Mats all put away etc... the best way for me to mentally partition it. Though tbh it’s a disappointment but there are bigger things to be concerned about at the moment!

[Oldmanmatt]

I'm starting to feel really glad there are no crags and I don't have a car. This would be making my brain hurt.

Yeah. Despite being 15-20 min drive from rock I’ve basically cut the idea from my mind. Ain’t gonna happen for months. Climbing kit is now in the cellar. Mats all put away etc... the best way for me to mentally partition it. Though tbh it’s a disappointment but there are bigger things to be concerned about at the moment!

I’m not even making the short drive to go and train at my own wall.
Though I have brought the rowing machine home. We have a fingerboard, we have a big garden and some  kit and live on a steep hill. We can keep in shape.
If restrictions ease, I might take the kids to the wall, but not now.
For reference, it’s 15-20 mins walk to Anstey’s from my house.

The garden was completely overgrown, and I mean  with trees and brambles as thick as my wrists. We (mainly me) cleared the entire space, since Monday last week. I actually ache too much to even contemplate any other exercise at the moment. I have lost almost a kilo in that time too.

PS,
I fucking hate Blackthorn trees.
Not as much as I hate Blackthorn trees with Bramble twined through, though.

[seankenny]

Obvious also, was to add in some bumf about the importance of being seen by others (inc. politicians) as a responsible group of people because it has potential to impact future access (as does every time we go into the outdoors on other people's land).
The most basic of local climber's access groups, organised around a bunch of enthusiasts on whatsapp, could have come up with the same thought process and message.

I would have agreed with this, before this thread existed.

[Yossarian]

For reference, it’s 15-20 mins walk to Anstey’s from my house.

My brain has just melted trying to comprehend exactly how insanely amazing that must be...

[Wood FT]

For reference, it’s 15-20 mins walk to Anstey’s from my house.

My brain has just melted trying to comprehend exactly how insanely amazing that must be...

But it does mean he lives in Torquay... 

[tomtom]

Off topic.

OMM - roundup works a treat on Blackthorn. Doesn’t touch many weed/shrubs/trees (eg gorse) but nails Blackthorn with a normal dose.

[tomtom]

So just off a family Facetime with brother in laws family in Hackney. He’s suggesting their kids could meet other kids who’s parents have not had it either etc etc.. and that neither families will go near any old relatives.

I tried to point out the fallacies in his ideas - and that even just a few people bending the distancing rules made it much less worthwhile as a whole. I think he was just exploring ideas rather than it being a concrete plan.

But it’s stuff like this which is why we have or maybe need greater legislation. Or why we have to be careful exercising our ability to go outside once a day... people everywhere will be after an angle - and it’s down to all of us to behave as we are supposed to or the rot sets in... as stated earlier a couple of times in the thread.

[Oldmanmatt]

Off topic.

OMM - roundup works a treat on Blackthorn. Doesn’t touch many weed/shrubs/trees (eg gorse) but nails Blackthorn with a normal dose.

Now you tell me...