[205Chris]

Good update from the Peak District National Park:

Coronavirus Update – Sunday 22 March

The Peak District National Park has seen extremely high numbers of visitors in recent days.

The government has been clear on the need to avoid unnecessary contact with others to maintain the social distancing measures that are vital for us all to help reduce the impact of Coronavirus (COVID-19). It is important that we all consider our social responsibilities to help tackle this outbreak, and as government advice states, travel should be avoided unless absolutely necessary. This is no more important than in the Peak District, which is a living and working landscape and community for many thousands of people.

These are unprecedented times for us all, and this situation remains fast-moving, complex and challenging.

If your visit to the National Park is not absolutely necessary, please consider alternative green spaces closer to home, and we will update our coronavirus pages regularly with how government guidance may affect our activities.

Working together we can all help during this coronavirus crisis and the National Park, our businesses and communities will be ready to welcome everyone when it is once again safe to do so.

Thank you, and stay safe.

[gme]

Guess April is fingerboard month.

And May and June poss a bit of July.

[Falling Down]

You could also arguably interpret the advice as don't go outside except: to buy food/medicine, work if unable to WFH, and limited exercise close to home by yourself or with other householder.

This is my take on the current advice.

Yup.

Yep.

[GazM]

Fascinating discussion, keep it up folks.
It was the same up in the Highlands this weekend. Yesterday I went to a minor boulder 15mins from home that I've never ever seen other people at in my 10 years of regular visits and there were people there yesterday, aiming to escape other popular places I guess. Fortunately they were leaving as i arrived but still, a surprise.
My dilemma is what constitutes essential travel. I'm a self employed ecologist and work currently involves driving to remote forests in the Highlands to spend the day doing surveys without seeing anyone else, then driving home again. I'm isolated from any one all day long. Its work that can't be done from home but it's not essential for society to function. But it is essential for my bank balance. Thoughts?

[abarro81]

Guess April is fingerboard month.

And May and June poss a bit of July.

They're rehab months after my elbows explode

[mrjonathanr]

Fascinating discussion, keep it up folks.
It was the same up in the Highlands this weekend. Yesterday I went to a minor boulder 15mins from home that I've never ever seen other people at in my 10 years of regular visits and there were people there yesterday, aiming to escape other popular places I guess. Fortunately they were leaving as i arrived but still, a surprise.
My dilemma is what constitutes essential travel. I'm a self employed ecologist and work currently involves driving to remote forests in the Highlands to spend the day doing surveys without seeing anyone else, then driving home again. I'm isolated from any one all day long. Its work that can't be done from home but it's not essential for society to function. But it is essential for my bank balance. Thoughts?

Sounds unlikely you could transfer or pick up the virus during your working day?

[dunnyg]

Only obvious necessary contact is re-fueling?

[Stuart Anderson]

Fascinating discussion, keep it up folks.
It was the same up in the Highlands this weekend. Yesterday I went to a minor boulder 15mins from home that I've never ever seen other people at in my 10 years of regular visits and there were people there yesterday, aiming to escape other popular places I guess. Fortunately they were leaving as i arrived but still, a surprise.
My dilemma is what constitutes essential travel. I'm a self employed ecologist and work currently involves driving to remote forests in the Highlands to spend the day doing surveys without seeing anyone else, then driving home again. I'm isolated from any one all day long. Its work that can't be done from home but it's not essential for society to function. But it is essential for my bank balance. Thoughts?

Word on the twitter-sphere is an announcement to be made tomorrow about the self-employed. My works gone, but I've got the kids anyway.

I've been banging on on the other channel about knocking climbing on the head. Putting food on the table is another ball game. Don't envy you.

Good luck.

[GazM]

I filled the car using pay at pump yesterday, so this week's fuel is sorted.
And yeah, pretty much no chance of meeting anyone while out working. But still, it feels a bit odd when the general feeling is that you should only really be leaving the house to buy food.

[dunnyg]

Still have to touch pump handles etc.? Worth being aware of.

[gme]

All work is essential. Essential for the worker, the business and the overall economy.

My guess is a lot might bank on the 80% salary being paid and sit back but it’s not yet clear what is defined as not being able to work. It’s my intention to keep doing everything we can until we are literally stopped from doing so.
Pretty much same attitude to my climbing.

As an aside the golf course I live on is packed. Club house shut but course couldn’t be busier.

[spidermonkey09]

Caught up on the thread, which has been great reading. Solidarity everyone 

GazM, I think you're fine for working as far as I can see? Stick some gloves on for refueling and you've ticked every box.

I went climbing and walking this weekend. I enjoyed the walking significantly more. The climbing left me stressed out about either the amount of people already at the crag or the potential for others to turn up. I think that might be it for me until things change but still deciding, as I can definitely see the benefits of getting out somewhere quiet. As to how that's enforced, god only knows. I don't get out on the week so fortunately won't need to consider it for a while. I would welcome a lockdown to clarify things for everyone. Pictures of a rammed north Wales and Malham made me feel very uncomfortable.

[tomtom]

What a cluster fuck from the government and media on this.

Talk about mixed messages.

In his presser Boris seemed to make it clear that ‘congregations’ of people should not happen (how many in a congregation?) - and that the scenes seen in some places around the country were not great. But then it was fine to go out to the park as long as you don’t get closer than 2m... the problem is you could go somewhere busy and still be 2m apart...

And the (updated one hour ago) advice in the BBC website implies it’s fine to drive to wherever and go for a walk etc... just stay 2m away.

But the govt advice as quoted here is no unnecessary journeys.

No wonder we’re going round and round (a bit) on this thread. What a fucking lack of clarity from the government and mainstream media.

[nai]

Germany just introduced max groups of 2.
They were warned over the weekend to behave, guess that didn't get through.

[dunnyg]

Where is the avoid unnecessary travel?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-on-social-distancing-and-for-vulnerable-people/guidance-on-social-distancing-for-everyone-in-the-uk-and-protecting-older-people-and-vulnerable-adults

says unnecessary transport on public transport. Was updated 20th march.

[teestub]

I linked it one page ago 

They seem to have helpfully split into two pages rather than updating one main one...

[Will Hunt]

Re: petrol stations. Gloves are provided. Unbelievably, at Keighley earlier in the week, they were left unused by 50% of the patrons. Why would you choose NOT to use them?

I might have jumped the gun on unnecessary travel and just gone off what was said by somebody else. Very frustrating. The country is crying out for clear, unambiguous guidance. It should be so simple to provide.

[GazM]

Its here DunnyG: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-announces-further-measures-on-social-distancing

Thanks for the replies to my earlier post. Makes me feel a bit better about working this week, although I fully expect it'll be out of my hands by the end of the week.

[petejh]

I do the admin role for the North Wales Climbers facebook page (ironically, as I have a general dislike of social media).

This evening I posted this as a sticky post at the top of the page (and no this is not virtue signalling, I'm not after likes or karma harvesting, it just seems to me the correct action):

''The government's latest daily COVID advice as it relates to climbing can be interpreted in one of two ways:

1. You can arguably interpret the advice as allowing climbing, if you wanted to justify going climbing.

2. You can arguably interpret the advice as don't go outside except:
i. to buy food/medicine,

ii. to work if you are unable to WFH,

iii. and to take limited exercise close to home by yourself or with another with who you share the house.

It all depends what you're trying to justify. Climbing? Or behaving in ways that *minimise* potential for transmissions - thus behaving in ways that potentially save the most lives down the transmission chain.

Who do you want to be?

What's clear is congregating with others, however essential the reason, spreads COVID-19.

That doesn't mean there's one easy answer to 'should I go climbing', nor are there any justifications for ostracising others who we should assume are acting with good intentions, even if possibly not good sense.

It won't do a lot, but no further posts for climbing partners, conditions info or beta will be accepted on this page until we're in a better, clearer situation.''

[Muenchener]

I filled the car using pay at pump yesterday, so this week's fuel is sorted.
And yeah, pretty much no chance of meeting anyone while out working. But still, it feels a bit odd when the general feeling is that you should only really be leaving the house to buy food.

For what it’s worth, state of emergency lockdown over here (Bavaria) specifically  allows going to work if wfh isn’t an option. For now. Drive carefully.

[dunnyg]

Cheers, sorry teestub, im finding it hard to stay in top of all the info. Sounds like unless that crags in your garden, you are going against advice.

Id probably work if I were you, but id be paranoid about touching anything, e.g. gates etc.. Good luck!

[jwi]

The only people I trust on this are experts with experience from Asia. They say that the lockdown in Lombardy is way too lax.

[teestub]

Interesting post from a BMC rep on the other channel https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rocktalk/um__folks__we_need_to_talk_about_this-717331?v=1#x9155556  Sounds like they will be taking a firm line from tomorrow.

[mikester]

And yeah, pretty much no chance of meeting anyone while out working. But still, it feels a bit odd when the general feeling is that you should only really be leaving the house to buy food.

I'm in the same boat with my work (ecology/environmental). I've been happy to curtail my climbing and outdoorsy stuff and assoc. journeys but find myself saying yes to work offers. Hopefully CIEEM will come out with some mealy-mouthed advice!

On the driving thing, I'm not sure it's just refueling that brings risk. There are potential breakdowns, RTAs, medical emergencies - affecting me directly or indirectly, as a passerby/responder - none of which are expected but all of which I've experienced many times.

[SamT]

It was interesting yesterday, to drive by burbage north, past thousands of cars..

(parked all over the moor - 6 cars parked out on the moor by the elbow, on the path to the cowper stone which I've never seen before)

.. but I actually scanned the crag, and nobody was climbing.. on the way out, I could see one person at remergence, on the way back nobody.  Which was actually heartening.

We'd been out to Hathersage to see my mum who's in her 70s, has had a stroke, is on immuno-suppressants for all sorts of conditions.   We stood around at the end of her drive, some 5 meters away for 20mins and had a chat.  All very surreal.

Her and her partner, whilst fully into the self isolating thing, don't seem to get the gravity of it all.  He seems to think that its ok for him to head into town, go shopping etc just cause mums at home.  They just dont seem to get it.

To quote her partner, "Well your mum might be one of the 1.8 million vulnerable ones"  .. no shit Sherlock. 

I'm coming round to thinking that mine, and my wife's parents (her mum has stomach cancer and has just finished 4 heavy rounds of chemo). will not likely survive this, if we end up like Italy, which is the direction we're rapidly heading.