[spidermonkey09]

the mutation tweaks just sounds like a kind of software update type concept.

This is how I understand it; difference between a full new OS install and the annual update. Also means approval processes are much quicker from MHRA etc as the vaccine is 90% the same.

[tomtom]

There was a vaccine expert on R5 the other night saying that there's a different / lighter touch regime for variants of vaccines / boosters.

Didn't get or understand the details, but effectively they're just changing the RNA(?) that links to the "spike" protein in line with the virus mutation.

Kinda makes sense - these vaccines were by definition totally new in concept, but if the mutation tweaks just sounds like a kind of software update type concept.

So the Pfizer (and Novomax?) vaccines are the RNA ones - which are AFAIK a completely new method. But does allow a fairly rapid adjustment for the whole production process.

[spidermonkey09]

The video at the top of this page with Sarah Gilbert is v good on this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55967767

[Oldmanmatt]

I fear the same Ru. The vaccine-variant arms race and the response lag look like a recipe for prolonged pain. Hope I'm wrong.

But - timing and summer is in our favour... If the SA variant impact can be managed/slowed until April/May then we might well be OK for getting updated jabs for Oct without too many problems...

Except, the SA variant spread well during the Southern Hemisphere summer...

Actually, though, the vaccine shows reduced response/prevention against mild infection; so should continue to mitigate against the worst outcomes of the pandemic. Also, other vaccines already in use, seem to be more effective and even more are in final approval stage now. I am not without hope for our ability to manage the situation.

[spidermonkey09]

https://unherd.com/2021/02/how-worrying-is-the-south-africa-variant/

Tom Chivers is a very good science writer and this is a very good, clear piece. Appreciate the platform may put some off (they employ some truly awful writers along with some very good ones) but I would make an exception for this.

[tomtom]

Ugh... (omm)...

Oh well - if/when the SA variant update vaccine is supplied, we'll probably all need the original/old variant vaccine anyway/as well... If was assume a SA variant vaccine does not work as well against the original one...

Key things yet to come out though are whether orig vaccine has a strong effect on the hospitalisation/mortality..

[Andy F]

Sky News reporting the Bristol variant is a cause of concern but the Liverpool variant is under investigation.

How bloody typical of the N/S divide. If the Liverpool variant was from Seven Oaks it'd get away without charge 

[tomtom]

You’re forgetting the Moss side variant that’s bubbled up in Manchester.

[Andy F]

You’re forgetting the Moss side variant that’s bubbled up in Manchester.

I believe the SAS have been called in...

[Bonjoy]

I truly hope all you optimists turn out to be right. It just worries me that it might take say half a year to go from identifying a new variant to having a revised vaccine at scale, whilst new variants seem to be popping up every time the queen farts. Seems like a hard game of catch up to be playing.

[duncan]

It’s funny that the Guardians pro lockdown brainwashing of the middle classes / liberal elite and their Twitter hit squad including the good old George bully boy Monibot choose to raise concerns about exactly the mental health crisis that they are serving to generate. There are some true independent voices on these matters including Alison Pollock who speaks to reason and supports pro-social public health policies. Lockdown has led to a wide ranging effect on mental health mostly in which previously well but vulnerable people are tipped over into being unwell while there is an alleviation of shame and guilt for those already ‘locked down’ by their mental health prior to the pandemic

Thought it better to respond to this here. Allyson Pollock does talk sense about the importance of public health and the incompetence of some of the outsourced services. She writes for The Guardian. Lockdown is shit for some people’s mental health, losing family or friends is also shit.

In other news, I had the Pfizer vaccine yesterday (because I’m old). Got the text the day before, great atmosphere at the centre with a mix of jolly volunteers and NHS staff, all desperate to reassure me (“no questions, just stick the needle in”). Very competent and efficient, in stark contrast to my dealings with track-and-trace. Felt a bit tired and cold-y in the evening but fine now other than having ‘DOMS’ in that shoulder. I’ll let you know if I turn purple or grow horns.

[SA Chris]

If both don't happen I'll be disappointed.

[Loos3-tools]

It’s funny that the Guardians pro lockdown brainwashing of the middle classes / liberal elite and their Twitter hit squad including the good old George bully boy Monibot choose to raise concerns about exactly the mental health crisis that they are serving to generate. There are some true independent voices on these matters including Alison Pollock who speaks to reason and supports pro-social public health policies. Lockdown has led to a wide ranging effect on mental health mostly in which previously well but vulnerable people are tipped over into being unwell while there is an alleviation of shame and guilt for those already ‘locked down’ by their mental health prior to the pandemic

Thought it better to respond to this here. Allyson Pollock does talk sense about the importance of public health and the incompetence of some of the outsourced services. She writes for The Guardian. Lockdown is shit for some people’s mental health, losing family or friends is also shit.

In other news, I had the Pfizer vaccine yesterday (because I’m old). Got the text the day before, great atmosphere at the centre with a mix of jolly volunteers and NHS staff, all desperate to reassure me (“no questions, just stick the needle in”). Very competent and efficient, in stark contrast to my dealings with track-and-trace. Felt a bit tired and cold-y in the evening but fine now other than having ‘DOMS’ in that shoulder. I’ll let you know if I turn purple or grow horns.

Yes I noticed she’s written for that bedevilled rag 

[Offwidth]

I missed that first post so thanks to Duncan from copying it here. The science clearly shows lockdowns do increase economic and secondary health problems, with especially serious impacts for mental health. Lockdowns are needed when we let the growth of the virus get out of control, knowing this has unfortunate effects elsewhere. Not locking down would wreck the hospital system and cause health chaos (and probably social chaos), so unless we started applying eugenics and left suspected covid patients to die at home we have no choice but to lockdown. So this mental health issue is not a trade-off dichotomy in science (nor is economic damage), it's a direct correlation. The faster we sort out any outbreak and get it under control the quicker the lockdown ends and the better for everyone. Unfortunately our government has been less than ideal in understanding and acting on this.

The subject has no class links I'm aware of given a lot more middle class people I know read centre right or right wing papers than the Guardian and its ilk...just look at sales figues. It does have clear political links with lockdown denial being an unscientific campaign from many right wing commentators and MPs.

[slab_happy]

In other news, I had the Pfizer vaccine yesterday (because I’m old).

Congrats on your jab!

I, meanwhile, have been injected with either vaccine candidate Ad26.COV2.S or saline, who knows.

I can report that the Clinical Research Facility staff at Northern General are super-nice, and I continue to be full of science psyche.

[Oldmanmatt]

It’s funny that the Guardians pro lockdown brainwashing of the middle classes / liberal elite and their Twitter hit squad including the good old George bully boy Monibot choose to raise concerns about exactly the mental health crisis that they are serving to generate. There are some true independent voices on these matters including Alison Pollock who speaks to reason and supports pro-social public health policies. Lockdown has led to a wide ranging effect on mental health mostly in which previously well but vulnerable people are tipped over into being unwell while there is an alleviation of shame and guilt for those already ‘locked down’ by their mental health prior to the pandemic

Thought it better to respond to this here. Allyson Pollock does talk sense about the importance of public health and the incompetence of some of the outsourced services. She writes for The Guardian. Lockdown is shit for some people’s mental health, losing family or friends is also shit.

In other news, I had the Pfizer vaccine yesterday (because I’m old). Got the text the day before, great atmosphere at the centre with a mix of jolly volunteers and NHS staff, all desperate to reassure me (“no questions, just stick the needle in”). Very competent and efficient, in stark contrast to my dealings with track-and-trace. Felt a bit tired and cold-y in the evening but fine now other than having ‘DOMS’ in that shoulder. I’ll let you know if I turn purple or grow horns.

🤷‍♂️
https://twitter.com/brianmoore666/status/1360175858628059137?s=21

[chris j]

It does have clear political links with lockdown denial being an unscientific campaign from many right wing commentators and MPs.

In the interest of balance don't forget Jeremy's brother Piers (leading the left wing charge on both anti-lockdown and anti-vaccine fronts)

[Loos3-tools]

The subject has no class links I'm aware of given a lot more middle class people I know read centre right or right wing papers than the Guardian and its ilk...just look at sales figues. It does have clear political links with lockdown denial being an unscientific campaign from many right wing commentators and MPs.

The Guardian serves the government and deals in managing the minds of the liberal elite. The liberal elite are the target audience. The Guardian had turned this way pre covid and in conjunction with the New York Times and the BBC dish up a daily serving of gruel gobbled up by the.... liberal elite? Of course ye all believe in the paper and the message because that's the nature of the programming. Chomsky pointed this out clearly in his interview with Andrew Marr. I've pasted the transcript below if ye can be arsed to read it. As for class links, class politics is a thing of the past surely? I mean c'mon socialism just died with Corbyn.

Marr: “This is what I don’t get, because it suggests that - I mean I’m a journalist - people like me are self-censoring.”

Chomsky: “No, not self-censoring. You’re, there’s a filtering system, that starts in kindergarten, and goes all the way through, and it’s not going to work 100% but it’s pretty effective. It selects for obedience, and subordination, and especially I think… [Marr: So stroppy people won’t make it to positions of influence] There’ll be behavioural problems. If you read applications to a graduate school you’ll see that people will tell you, he’s not, he doesn’t get along too well with his colleagues, you know how to interpret those things.”

Marr: “I’m just interested in this because I was brought up like a lot of people, probably post-Watergate film and so on to believe that journalism was a crusading craft and there were a lot of disputatious, stroppy, difficult people in journalism, and I have to say, I think I know some of them.”

Chomsky: “Well, I know some of the best, and best known investigative reporters in the United States, I won’t mention names, {inaudible}, whose attitude towards the media is much more cynical than mine. In fact, they regard the media as a sham. And they know, and they consciously talk about how they try to play it like a violin. If they see a little opening, they’ll try to squeeze something in that ordinarily wouldn’t make it through. And it’s perfectly true that the majority - I’m sure you’re speaking for the majority of journalists who are trained, have it driven into their heads, that this is a crusading profession, adversarial, we stand up against power. A very self-serving view. On the other hand, in my opinion, I hate to make a value judgement but, the better journalists and in fact the ones who are often regarded as the best journalists have quite a different picture. And I think a very realistic one.”

Marr: “How can you know that I’m self-censoring? How can you know that journalists are..”

Chomsky: “I’m not saying your self censoring. I’m sure you believe everything you’re saying. But what I’m saying is that if you believe something different, you wouldn’t be sitting where you’re sitting.”

[Offwidth]

He has dangerous views but fortunately doesn't get a soap box in mainstream news (which was my point, given the Guardian was childishly insulted). In contrast the Telegraph was formally rebuked by the press watchdog for the Toby Young column.

https://www.ipso.co.uk/rulings-and-resolution-statements/ruling/

[Loos3-tools]

What dangerous views does Chomsky have?

Oh no not the press watchdog 

[Oldmanmatt]

 
 
 

Anyway, I think I’d like to join the Liberal Elite, is there a sign up sheet?

Looks like fun and they sound nicely organised, like those BLM people and the Antifa club.
Does anybody know if they do socials or annual conferences and stuff?

Possibly this is a result of the mind control mask I’ve been enjoying and the pandemic I’ve been hallucinating.

Seriously though, who’s in charge? Can you delineate the power structure for me? Is it Bojo? Because I’m expecting him to get a knife in the back soon, like his predecessor. It can’t be Trump, coz he’s already gone.
So who is the mastermind(s)?
Are they also responsible for the Jewish Space Lasers? Or is that a different “they”?
Is it not just possible that, actually, humans are a bit shit, governments fuck up, ideologies are hard to shake, populations are pretty hard to control and a lot of them are a bit thick and/or selfish, regardless of their educational or social status? 

Oh yeah, last one:

Why is Chomsky “right” and everyone else “wrong”? Because he says he is? Is he not just presenting opinion? All he appears to be saying, in that instance, is “if you disagree with me, you have been programmed”. This sounds remarkably like the standard “if you don’t believe in the conspiracy, you must be part of the conspiracy” response from deep inside the rabbit hole.
Also, I don’t think you’re doing Chomsky any favours here.

Ok, bollocks, can’t resist:

I see Chomsky made it through the filtering system. Quite loudly, in fact (and yourself, of course). You two must feel quite lonely, as two of the tiny number who have survived indoctrination. I think it’s so commendable, the way you are able to be so sure that everybody else is “programmed” but your personal views are absolutely exact representations of clarity and balance, without bias or ideological tint. It does remind me, though, that I really do need to report that Flat Earther to the “THEY” after all, he’s seen right through our immaculate scheme to dupe the world and must be silenced, like all the others before him.
Can anybody remind me why we invented the “Globe” hoax again? It’s slipped my mind.

[Loos3-tools]

Ask Chomsky, he’s getting a bit long in the tooth tho. Who knows Brian Moore might be set to replace him as a radical thinker for the common man.

[Fiend]

As a minor aside to the usual stuff, I'm cross-posting this here because it is superficially topical and almost everyone from the militant lockdown comply-fascists to the granny-culling anti-masker party-animals can agree the vaccine is a Good Thing* https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,25088.msg629447.html#msg629447
(* - apart from the covid-5g plandemic nano-tech-particles anti-vaxxer fucktards but fuck them)

[tomtom]

Shark/Mods can you split the dozen or so posts above fiends post and merge them into the politics thread if possible?

[Oldmanmatt]

Ask Chomsky, he’s getting a bit long in the tooth tho. Who knows Brian Moore might be set to replace him as a radical thinker for the common man.

Oh man! Wow!

You know the Common man? Can you introduce me?

I’ve been looking for that bugger for about 50 years now, but I just keep finding stubbornly individual people with unique histories and a mishmash of different and sometimes contradictory opinions and feelings. As I said, some of them were a bit thick, some were pretty averagely intelligent, some were incredibly smart and yet still a bit thick, viewed from certain angles.
Basically, though, most defy categories, though aspects of them do seem to settle at various points along a very broad spectrum. Oddly, I’ve always thought the extremes of that spectrum appear equally dark and strangely similar. A bit like standing an Hasidic Jew next to a Taliban Cleric, really or a Trumpster brandishing a gun in the back of a pickup, waving a bible, next to a  gun waving Isis disciple, clutching his Koran in a slightly different pickup...