[Andy W]

Hi Brutus
Yea I don’t get that either, but Macron has threatened action against folk that ignore his directives. He has said individual sport is ok, so could cycle to the boulders, if I was fit enough 😉

[BrutusTheBear]

Hi Brutus
Yea I don’t get that either, but Macron has threatened action against folk that ignore his directives. He has said individual sport is ok, so could cycle to the boulders, if I was fit enough 😉

At least it sounds like he’s making solid decisions, our government seems to not want to make any firm decisions.... Is driving your car in a racey fashion considered an individual sport??

[Duma]

Given the latest announcement  - avoid all unnecessary social contact - then that’s it for climbing walls.

I feel really sorry for wall owners and those working for them. Can’t see them being open tomorrow.

I disagree. I think in the absence of a clear government directive to shut many of them will stay open and just preach 'wash hands, cardless payments, stay away if feeling unwell' etc. Business is business at the end of the day.

I really hope I'm proved wrong.

All TCA centres are shut as of now. Difficult for them but probably the right call. Until this afternoon flashpoint in Bristol were still going ahead with a comp tomorrow! Thankfully that's cancelled now, but they're still open.

[Andy W]

I was going to get my leather gloves out, then realised that sporty and Touran will never sit together comfortably.

[205Chris]

Given the latest announcement  - avoid all unnecessary social contact - then that’s it for climbing walls.

I feel really sorry for wall owners and those working for them. Can’t see them being open tomorrow.

I disagree. I think in the absence of a clear government directive to shut many of them will stay open and just preach 'wash hands, cardless payments, stay away if feeling unwell' etc. Business is business at the end of the day.

I really hope I'm proved wrong.

All TCA centres are shut as of now. Difficult for them but probably the right call. Until this afternoon flashpoint in Bristol were still going ahead with a comp tomorrow! Thankfully that's cancelled now, but they're still open.

Yeah, I saw that. Props to them. I hope others follow suit.

[tomtom]

Strong comment article on the other channel:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2020/03/climbing_wall_use_during_the_covid-19_pandemic_-_its_time_to_reconsider-72236

That also has an excellent link to a WaPost article with some great simple virus transmission model animations...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/?utm_campaign=articles_id_0&utm_content=link7&utm_medium=articles_post&utm_source=ukclimbing

[jwi]

Here in France, Macron although making sweeping initiatives has still left many questions. I guess understandable in such unprecedented times. However I can still go bouldering as long as I’m alone, which is what I usually do anyhow 🙂

Edit, my wife says I’m wrong, because driving to the bouldering is ‘making an unnecessary journey’. Thank god for my woodie.

Yes, you are quite wrong. What more, the President has given the police almost unlimited power to enforce this: at least that was how we interpreted the speech.

Here is a summary of the situation in France to the best of my understanding that I just wrote:

Starting tomorrow at noon, all travel except travelling alone for work or for shopping essentials is forbidden. Meeting friends and family is not allowed. The government will be responsible for the details, but the president warns that ”any violation of these rules will be sanctioned.” Taking a breather/jog is allowed. Alone.

The borders to non-Schengen countries are closed.

No business, no matter how small, is allowed to go bust: for this the president has pledged 300 billion in credits. Rent, electricity, water and gas-bills will be suspended for small and medium enterprises in difficulties. All workers are guaranteed pay.

The resources of the country will be geared to the medical staff. A system of child care for medical workers will be put in place, and they can requisition hotels or taxis at the government's expense.

[tomtom]

Re Going to the Wall. Having mulled over the UKC article for ten min or so...

This is clearly a far worse virus spreading context than going to a pub or other social space. By climbing on holds that lots of other people have touched (via climbing on) its more like going to the pub and then shaking hands with everyone in there. Including the people who've been in there for the past few days.

I think you're nuts if you think thats OK right now. 

[BrutusTheBear]

Here in France, Macron although making sweeping initiatives has still left many questions. I guess understandable in such unprecedented times. However I can still go bouldering as long as I’m alone, which is what I usually do anyhow 🙂

Edit, my wife says I’m wrong, because driving to the bouldering is ‘making an unnecessary journey’. Thank god for my woodie.

Yes, you are quite wrong. What more, the President has given the police almost unlimited power to enforce this: at least that was how we interpreted the speech.

Here is a summary of the situation in France to the best of my understanding that I just wrote:

Starting tomorrow at noon, all travel except travelling alone for work or for shopping essentials is forbidden. Meeting friends and family is not allowed. The government will be responsible for the details, but the president warns that ”any violation of these rules will be sanctioned.” Taking a breather/jog is allowed. Alone.

The borders to non-Schengen countries are closed.

No business, no matter how small, is allowed to go bust: for this the president has pledged 300 billion in credits. Rent, electricity, water and gas-bills will be suspended for small and medium enterprises in difficulties. All workers are guaranteed pay.

The resources of the country will be geared to the medical staff. A system of child care for medical workers will be put in place, and they can requisition hotels or taxis at the government's expense.

‘kin ell.  This puts our government to shame, very impressive.

[petejh]

Brutus. I'm not being a twat, but you're complaining in one post that going out bouldering should be OK. And then complaining in your other post that you wish the government would make firm decisions. You can't have both! You've just been told to not engage in any unnecessary travel or social contact. In an unprecedented restriction of liberties unknown since WWII. 
What do you want - to be forced to obey? They can enact martial law and criminal sanctions to force you to comply, if they want to. I predict they will do this at a later stage, if it's deemed enough people aren't obeying the guidance or when the death toll is accelerating rapidly, but for now it's left up to our collective good sense to do the right thing.
Kids in school are a much lower risk than adults mingling, surely that's clear to everyone by now. I'm sure school closures will come in too, at the acceleration of deaths period.
Perhaps you should either enjoy your current freedoms while complying with the spirit of the guidance; or comply 100% and don't do anything unnecessary like going out bouldering. But not complaining about both options.

[Paul B]

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1239655710872518663?s=19

 

[Andy W]

Here in France, Macron although making sweeping initiatives has still left many questions. I guess understandable in such unprecedented times. However I can still go bouldering as long as I’m alone, which is what I usually do anyhow 🙂

Edit, my wife says I’m wrong, because driving to the bouldering is ‘making an unnecessary journey’. Thank god for my woodie.

Yes, you are quite wrong. What more, the President has given the police almost unlimited power to enforce this: at least that was how we interpreted the speech.

Here is a summary of the situation in France to the best of my understanding that I just wrote:

Starting tomorrow at noon, all travel except travelling alone for work or for shopping essentials is forbidden. Meeting friends and family is not allowed. The government will be responsible for the details, but the president warns that ”any violation of these rules will be sanctioned.” Taking a breather/jog is allowed. Alone.

The borders to non-Schengen countries are closed.

No business, no matter how small, is allowed to go bust: for this the president has pledged 300 billion in credits. Rent, electricity, water and gas-bills will be suspended for small and medium enterprises in difficulties. All workers are guaranteed pay.

The resources of the country will be geared to the medical staff. A system of child care for medical workers will be put in place, and they can requisition hotels or taxis at the government's expense.

It’s always nice to be quite wrong.

[Ru]

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

So flattening the curve ("mitigation" in this paper) as explained by the government was a load of bollocks after all, for exactly the reasons we suspected. Someone should buy Dominic an envelope to scribble on the back of. 18 months of isolation, however, will be economic armageddon.

[Stu Littlefair]

Fuck me that’s grim reading, if not massively surprising 

[TobyD]

This is possibly the most depressing reaction to the virus I could imagine:

US sales of guns and ammunition soar amid coronavirus panic buying
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/us-sales-guns-ammunition-soar-amid-coronavirus-panic-buying?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Makes UK panic buying of tinned tomatoes and pasta look positively community spirited.

The real irony is that guns might end up causing more harm ...

[Ru]

Trying to look on the bright side of this:

1. If you had to dispassionately pick a killer pandemic, this one is probably the one you would choose in terms of the mortality demographics.
2. Hopefully the global nature of the pandemic will result in increased international co-operation.
3. If 2. is correct, a reversal of isolationist, nationalist politics.
4. A realisation of the need to invest heavily in social healthcare and social support mechanisms.
5. A restructuring of the economy away from carbon intensive use.

It would be nice to think that we could look back on it as a positive turning point.

[BrutusTheBear]

Pete.  Hypocrisy is the greatest luxury, allow me to indulge...  I was having a little banter with Andy.   The consequences of bringing the virus to my wife is potentially very serious.  I don’t need marshall law to help me with my decisions.

As it stands the decision made by our government leaves businesses in the shit.  Something decisive that says we will support you if you’re in trouble as a result is needed or the door is left open for the unscrupulous to profit and the socially conscious to lose out.  They won’t ask businesses to close because they don’t want to pay out.  That’s why I am impressed with Macron (never thought I’d say  that).

Kids mingling at school are low risk??  Really.. based on what?

Is starting a sentence with ‘I’m not being a twat but..’ the same or similar to ‘I’m not being a racist but’ ??

[petejh]

Yeah grim reading, but as Stu says not unsurprising.

Worth reading the whole paper and not just the headlines. Dilemma doesn't describe it. Two choices, each of them terrible.

edit: Among many sentences, this stands out: most of the countries across the world face the same challenge today with COVID-19, a virus with comparable lethality to H1N1 influenza in 1918.
Same lethality, but we've a far larger population than 1918.

[TobyD]

Trying to look on the bright side of this:

1. If you had to dispassionately pick a killer pandemic, this one is probably the one you would choose in terms of the mortality demographics.
2. Hopefully the global nature of the pandemic will result in increased international co-operation.
3. If 2. is correct, a reversal of isolationist, nationalist politics.
4. A realisation of the need to invest heavily in social healthcare and social support mechanisms.
5. A restructuring of the economy away from carbon intensive use.

It would be nice to think that we could look back on it as a positive turning point.

A positive take on it. Several columnists have observed that you couldn't design a better carbon dioxide emission reduction strategy: precipitatous drop in flights, factories closing, car journeys reduced...
International cooperation isn't looking terribly good at the moment, particularly from the US but perhaps this might prove the value of the EU if they pull their fingers out.
Interesting comment on a R4 program earlier about previous virus which affected pig farms in Malaysia which had a 70-80% mortality when humans caught it. Given Cv19s relatively low mortality rate (although it's still pretty significant) now is the time for the world to develop realistic approaches to inevitable future pandemics

[mrjonathanr]

Kids in school are a much lower risk than adults mingling, surely that's clear to everyone by now.

What do you mean by ‘lower risk’?
Less likely to develop serious complications? Less likely to increase transmission of the virus than adults?

The former is well known. Do you have any evidence for the latter? Share it please if you do.

 Re the latter, child-child, child-adult and subsequent adult-adult transmission will increase mortality rates as it accelerates the epidemic.

[Will Hunt]

Another piece of info from Singapore from a few days ago.
The (night)club that my brother went to on Saturday night only allowed 250 people in. Everybody completed a form on arrival with their contact details and travel history. Temperatures taken on the door. This is now standard for any building.

Contact tracing innit.

[eastside]

Hi Brutus
Yea I don’t get that either, but Macron has threatened action against folk that ignore his directives. He has said individual sport is ok, so could cycle to the boulders, if I was fit enough

So you are allowed to walk to the boulders but not to drive? I don't see how that makes much sense but what have you. At least there is a zone, albeit tiny, walking distance from where we're at.

bleau.info/moigny

Guess I'll work on the 7C+ for the next two weeks

[Andy W]

Hi Brutus
Yea I don’t get that either, but Macron has threatened action against folk that ignore his directives. He has said individual sport is ok, so could cycle to the boulders, if I was fit enough

So you are allowed to walk to the boulders but not to drive? I don't see how that makes much sense but what have you. At least there is a zone, albeit tiny, walking distance from where we're at.

bleau.info/moigny

Tbh I don’t really know what’s alllowed.

Guess I'll work on the 7C+ for the next two weeks

[tomtom]

Trying to look on the bright side of this:

1. If you had to dispassionately pick a killer pandemic, this one is probably the one you would choose in terms of the mortality demographics.
2. Hopefully the global nature of the pandemic will result in increased international co-operation.
3. If 2. is correct, a reversal of isolationist, nationalist politics.
4. A realisation of the need to invest heavily in social healthcare and social support mechanisms.
5. A restructuring of the economy away from carbon intensive use.

It would be nice to think that we could look back on it as a positive turning point.

How will it change your perspective Ru?

My musings from 10 days ago...

A longer post - on a different point. I've had a few conversations and been mulling the following over the last few days....

We don't know how this is all going to pan out at the moment (for the better or for the worse) - but I hope some positives will come from this too. These include:

1. Changing the 9-5 in the office work ethic - and making homeworking and remote working more the norm than the exception. I hope and suspect that many changes in the workplace that are happening right now because of CV19 will lead to a long lasting shift in this. Of course many jobs require a workplace - but many in our largely service driven economy do not - and I hope this can show that people can carry on doing whatever spreadsheet shuffling they may do equally as well at home as at work.

2. Putting a dent in our short haul flight addiction. Maybe less optimism for this - folk may well return to business as usual once this changes. But - with the travel restrictions and downturn in flying I hope people start to realise that they don't need to have five europe mini breaks a year and can have just as relaxing/equivalent break closer to home (with less emissions required...). There are lots of positives in terms of widening peoples perspectives and breaking down cultural barriers of going to lots of places - but I can't help but think we do too much of it.

3. A slower pace of life. Already (from my observations) the roads and public transport are noticably quieter... Not so much self quarantine, but people making concious decisions to go out less, spending more time at home etc.. are these necessarily bad things? (thuogh it may just lead to Netflix dependancy issues :D )

4. If we do less - will we consume less - and leading to a wider point does this mean less of an emphasis on the growth growth growth economic model that the world seems to have subscribed to? I doubt CV19 will stop this - but maybe putting a dent in it and slowing things down globally isnt such a bad thing... (I await someone with stocks and shares pension/isa/savings to come back at me otherwise with this..)

Anyway - just some general musings about how it may change the world we live in - possibly in some positive ways. None of the above is evidence based

[tomtom]

When is the anger going to come out?

There are alot of anxious people out there - anger is one outlet for anxiety...

We've not seen mass disorder yet in Europe (only over toilet rolls in Sydney... ) - but this is surely something to come?