[jfdm]

I don't get why the Diane Abbott thing is such such a big deal. People get flustered sometimes, doesn't seem to me like the huge issue the news is making It out to be..

Abarro, where to start. The fact is she is shadow Home Secretary, quite a big gig, she should know her dept inside out, that's her job to have answers to questions about these matters. Abbotts fluffing her lines lends credence to May/Cons/medias view that Cobyn/Labour isn't/aren't fit to run country. To fight against this perception as I said Lab/jez need to be much slicker, so that lab message is unified and clearly presented and doesn't fan May/cons/medias views/perception.

[seankenny]

That was a car crash from Abbot though.  She's the shadow home sec. announcing a big policy and it was clear that she didn't know the numbers.  Even if she hadn't been asked the question it should have been a "We will invest 300mill in 10,000 fresh coppers and will pay for it by closing down tax loopholes/insisting British trading businesses trade in Britain/blah-blah"... basic stuff.

What FD says. I've worked as a press officer, prepped people for interviews from junior staff doing it for the first time up to chief execs, politicians, etc, as well as having been on national radio and TV myself. The figures are the absolute basics, the first thing that she should have been saying, any half decent media team would have gone over this stuff for as many times as it took to sink in.

Either Abbott can't master the basics of an interview brief or the Labour Party are so shambolic that they can't prepare the basic messages for their team to deliver in a fucking general election. Quite honestly either possibility is shocking.

Remember that moaning about professional politicians, well here's an unprofessional politician.

[Will Hunt]

FD and Sean have said it. It's not the fact that she fumbled the lines, it's the fact that she took one of Labour's key GE missiles and pointed it at her own party instead of the Tories. The cost of a policy and the source of its funding are the two most basic aspects of it that I can think of. For a shadow home sec to fuck that up so badly is just unforgivable. If she'd simply corrected herself it would have been fine, but the fact that you can hear her trying to make up the numbers live on air is just awful.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a party member and I want to support them, but this is just the pits. If anybody thinks the left wouldn't jump on a similar performance by a Tory politician then they're dreaming.

[monkoffunk]

Is the Labour Party competent to be in charge of the economy? It's the question the Tories have been constantly asking and for many people that Labour have just answered. Sadly.

[dave]

Meanwhile, Tory candidate in Wakefield makes snobbish and disparaging remark on twitter about the working classes, underlining the general Tory policy on the working classes and the fact they should just stick to eating gruel at the workhouse, yet obviosuly this is nothing compared to a woman fluffing her lines in one of dozens of TV interviews.

Meanwhile, haunted art gallery owner May agrees to take questions from the press as long as they aren't allowed to film or photograph the exchange. Let she deviate from the "strong and stable" mantra.

Meanwhile, in an attempt to divert attention away from a building election expenses fraud scandal, May calls a general election a few weeks after saying she would definitely not call a general election, in part to consolidate her majority in order to be able to pass legislation relating to the fallout of a farcical referendum that nobody wanted but was called by her predecessor in an attempt to placate the hard right factions of his own party. Strong and stable my arse. And I'm supposed to believe that it's Labour who are unfit to run the country?

Don't get me started on schools or the NHS which are being cut to breaking point, or the fact that load of Tory top brass are set to profit from interests in private healthcare firms and the like.

[Oldmanmatt]

But the Tories reeeaaallllyyy understand economics!

Town halls buy back Right-to-Buy homes
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39264631

[galpinos]

I don't get why the Diane Abbott thing is such such a big deal. People get flustered sometimes, doesn't seem to me like the huge issue the news is making It out to be..

I know I'm just repeating what's been said but.... she's the Shadow Home Secretary! She's launching a flagship policy, especially important as it was our glorious Prime Minister who cut the staffing in the police force in the first place, and instead of the news being the policy, it's now just another "incompetent Labour" story. It wasn't even face to face, it was a phone interview. She could have been sat there with all the facts written down and a press officer next to her scribbling down extra info as required. She's going on a large audience radio show that will obviously be hostile (it gives a show to Katie Hopkins for f**ks sake) as she has't bothered to prepare. I'd be having strips torn off me by my boss if I turned up at a client meeting that unprepared, I expect more form someone who wants to run the country for us.

That's not to say I find the Tory policy of saying nothing any better and May's performances over the weekend on TV when she refused to actually articulate any policies is deplorable, she's stifling the debate as she can only lose if she engages because whilst she keeps her mouth shut, Labour just self implode.

[chris j]

I don't get why the Diane Abbott thing is such such a big deal. People get flustered sometimes, doesn't seem to me like the huge issue the news is making It out to be..

Well she has always been a walking cliché on multiculturalism and race relations and a proud example of the top level Labour party disdain for their own education policies (private education for her son) so I imagine it is just hugely satisfying for them to put the boot in when she leaves a wide open goal...

[TobyD]

I don't get why the Diane Abbott thing is such such a big deal. People get flustered sometimes, doesn't seem to me like the huge issue the news is making It out to be..

Well she has always been a walking cliché on multiculturalism and race relations and a proud example of the top level Labour party disdain for their own education policies (private education for her son) so I imagine it is just hugely satisfying for them to put the boot in when she leaves a wide open goal...

As others have said really: I don't like the idea of 5 years of May, but at least she is vaguely professional, although a useless home secretary herself. But the Labour party is, in general, worse at the moment. Corbyn is interested in nothing but keeping hold of his little castle of the party. No interest in government. For god's sake the man takes the day off on Monday if he's been on a Sunday chat show; what sort of PM would he be? Would he do a short week if he had to go to a cobra meeting?!

[Will Hunt]

Meanwhile, Tory candidate in Wakefield makes snobbish and disparaging remark on twitter about the working classes, underlining the general Tory policy on the working classes and the fact they should just stick to eating gruel at the workhouse, yet obviosuly this is nothing compared to a woman fluffing her lines in one of dozens of TV interviews.

Meanwhile, haunted art gallery owner May agrees to take questions from the press as long as they aren't allowed to film or photograph the exchange. Let she deviate from the "strong and stable" mantra.

Meanwhile, in an attempt to divert attention away from a building election expenses fraud scandal, May calls a general election a few weeks after saying she would definitely not call a general election, in part to consolidate her majority in order to be able to pass legislation relating to the fallout of a farcical referendum that nobody wanted but was called by her predecessor in an attempt to placate the hard right factions of his own party. Strong and stable my arse. And I'm supposed to believe that it's Labour who are unfit to run the country?

Don't get me started on schools or the NHS which are being cut to breaking point, or the fact that load of Tory top brass are set to profit from interests in private healthcare firms and the like.

I don't think I've seen one person on this thread say that they support May's government or the Conservative party. Their policies are abhorrent, yet they are able to implement them so easily because they behave like a relatively well-oiled machine when the party of opposition is in such disarray. Diane Abbott's interview was undoubtedly an inexcusable fuck up, and to view it any other way is to be unconditionally forgiving.
I think I'm more angry with the Labour party than I am with the Conservatives. The Tories are just doing what comes naturally to them, what we all expect of them - reducing the size of the state - in a very competent way. It's Labour's job to present an organised and effective opposition and to seek to kick them out of power. In our parliamentary democracy, a party is only effective in influencing events if it poses a credible threat to the government's majority. Labour aren't even close to this, due in a large part to the incompetence of the leadership.

[dave]

I think the rightwing media's job is done if people now readily accept the Tories as a bunch of cunts and yet the blame for their conduct goes on the left wing parties for not stopping them. What a time to be alive.

[petejh]

Meanwhile, Tory candidate in Wakefield makes snobbish and disparaging remark on twitter about the working classes, underlining the general Tory policy on the working classes and the fact they should just stick to eating gruel at the workhouse, yet obviosuly this is nothing compared to a woman fluffing her lines in one of dozens of TV interviews.

Meanwhile, haunted art gallery owner May agrees to take questions from the press as long as they aren't allowed to film or photograph the exchange. Let she deviate from the "strong and stable" mantra.

Meanwhile, in an attempt to divert attention away from a building election expenses fraud scandal, May calls a general election a few weeks after saying she would definitely not call a general election, in part to consolidate her majority in order to be able to pass legislation relating to the fallout of a farcical referendum that nobody wanted but was called by her predecessor in an attempt to placate the hard right factions of his own party. Strong and stable my arse. And I'm supposed to believe that it's Labour who are unfit to run the country?

Don't get me started on schools or the NHS which are being cut to breaking point, or the fact that load of Tory top brass are set to profit from interests in private healthcare firms and the like.

That's a lot of whatabouttery there Dave.

Whatabout you give me a compelling argument to vote Labour for positive reasons, that doesn't involve 'but the Cons did this, but the Cons said that'.

[dave]

Loads of arguments for any of the centre/left parties Pete, sorry I didn't realise I had to lay out the Labour manifesto in that above post for balance.

[petejh]

I'm waiting to hear them...

[Will Hunt]

I think the rightwing media's job is done if people now readily accept the Tories as a bunch of cunts and yet the blame for their conduct goes on the left wing parties for not stopping them. What a time to be alive.

Constant complaining that the election is rigged or that the media is biased against you is straight out of the Trump playbook. It's as weak as it gets.

Dave, it's really fucking annoying to have someone disregard your opinion and for them to accuse you of being brainwashed by a biased media every time that a criticism is made of a party that we all need to be doing better.
I understand there is a lot of media bias against the Labour party. It is because I am so acutely aware of this that I am able to distinguish those events which are genuine fuck ups and are being fairly reported as such from those events which are none stories.

[Schnell]

I think the rightwing media's job is done if people now readily accept the Tories as a bunch of cunts and yet the blame for their conduct goes on the left wing parties for not stopping them. What a time to be alive.

Especially true if the above can be used as an argument to not vote for left-wing parties therefore further undermining their ability to oppose the bunch of cunts.

[dave]

Constant complaining ..... that the media is biased against you is straight out of the Trump playbook. It's as weak as it gets.

I understand there is a lot of media bias against the Labour party.

So let me get this right, we're OK with acknowledging the bias, but it's not OK to talk about it? It's a huge issue, an issue that can and has been shown to swing elections.

If Trump and indeed the Nazis in the 1930s moaned about media bias it's because they are/were lying despots, doesn't mean legitimate concern for media bias is thrown out of the window today for fear for kneejerk comparison to the above. You're better than that Will.

[Will Hunt]

I think the rightwing media's job is done if people now readily accept the Tories as a bunch of cunts and yet the blame for their conduct goes on the left wing parties for not stopping them. What a time to be alive.

Especially true if the above can be used as an argument to not vote for left-wing parties therefore further undermining their ability to oppose the bunch of cunts.

This assumes that the only reason you need to vote for a party is that they are not the government. As it happens, I expect that at this election this will the reason that I vote Labour, just because they represent the best chance (though it is not a very good chance) of ejecting the Tory government. This should be a really easy decision for me and many others. The decision is made difficult because: in my opinion, the shadow cabinet could not run a government effectively, at a time when a stable government is critical to all our futures (people know this, that's why the Tories have selected it as their slogan); and the Labour party is supporting our exiting the European Union.

So, yes, I am angry with the Labour party, because they're making unforced errors and giving me good reasons not to vote for them.

[Will Hunt]

Constant complaining ..... that the media is biased against you is straight out of the Trump playbook. It's as weak as it gets.

I understand there is a lot of media bias against the Labour party.

So let me get this right, we're OK with acknowledging the bias, but it's not OK to talk about it? It's a huge issue, an issue that can and has been shown to swing elections.

If Trump and indeed the Nazis in the 1930s moaned about media bias it's because they are/were lying despots, doesn't mean legitimate concern for media bias is thrown out of the window today for fear for kneejerk comparison to the above. You're better than that Will.

No no. You're allowed to talk about it. But don't let it be all you talk about, and your only answer to valid criticisms of the Labour party.

[Somebody's Fool]

in my opinion, the shadow cabinet could not run a government effectively, at a time when a stable government is critical to all our futures

Are you Theresa May? Do I win £5?

[tomtom]

So, yes, I am angry with the Labour party, because they're making unforced errors and giving me good reasons not to vote for them.

This is a real problem.

I find it hard to want to vote for Labour - except to stop the Tories. Thats a good reason, but ffs - there should be positive reasons to vote Labour rather than 'they're not as bad'.... Even their brexit position is 'we wont be as hard as the Tories'...

Pete has a point....

[36chambers]

I think the rightwing media's job is done if people now readily accept the Tories as a bunch of cunts and yet the blame for their conduct goes on the left wing parties for not stopping them. What a time to be alive.

This. It blows my mind when I hear people blaming Labour for things the Tories do.

[petejh]

So, yes, I am angry with the Labour party, because they're making unforced errors and giving me good reasons not to vote for them.

This is a real problem.

I find it hard to want to vote for Labour - except to stop the Tories. Thats a good reason, but ffs - there should be positive reasons to vote Labour rather than 'they're not as bad'.... Even their brexit position is 'we wont be as hard as the Tories'...

Pete has a point....

No shit, it's what the whole (non-conservative) country are thinking. The country is crying out for a credible alternative way, but Labour clearly isn't it (credible). If it quacks like a dog 

[Will Hunt]

I think the rightwing media's job is done if people now readily accept the Tories as a bunch of cunts and yet the blame for their conduct goes on the left wing parties for not stopping them. What a time to be alive.

This. It blows my mind when I hear people blaming Labour for things the Tories do.

If the police were to have the opportunity to prevent a murder or a rape, and failed to do so due in a large part to their own incompetence, would you be angry with the police or the murderer or both? Let's say the patrol car wasn't fuelled and ready to go, so the police didn't make it to the scene of the crime in time. The crime is still committed by the criminal, but the police would also have failed in their duty to do everything they could to prevent it.

This is not a stretched analogy. It is the duty of the party of opposition to do its best to prevent the government from doing bad things.

[Yossarian]

I think the rightwing media's job is done if people now readily accept the Tories as a bunch of cunts and yet the blame for their conduct goes on the left wing parties for not stopping them. What a time to be alive.

Constant complaining that the election is rigged or that the media is biased against you is straight out of the Trump playbook. It's as weak as it gets.

Dave, it's really fucking annoying to have someone disregard your opinion and for them to accuse you of being brainwashed by a biased media every time that a criticism is made of a party that we all need to be doing better.
I understand there is a lot of media bias against the Labour party. It is because I am so acutely aware of this that I am able to distinguish those events which are genuine fuck ups and are being fairly reported as such from those events which are none stories.

Whatever media bias there is currently is predominantly against the current Labour leadership, rather than the Labour Party as a whole.

Dave - The Guardian and the FT both reported the shambolic DA interview, and neither have any affiliations to your oft-repeated rightwing billionaire Tory donors.

The Times has prominent centre-Left leader writers like Philip Collins and Oliver Kamm (the former ex Social Market Foundation and TB speechwriter) who have written at length and with seemingly total freedom about the difficulty of supporting the current Labour leadership despite everything that is going on elsewhere.

What the DA episode proves beyond doubt is, in retrospect, what an effective political force the early years of the Blair administration was. They were convincing at statesmanship, well-briefed and professional. DA didn't even care that she fucked that interview up - there was no sense of impending doom in her voice. Just the delusional self-confidence of someone who thinks she knows better.