[tomtom]

Hi All,
Just been reading up about INEOS latest fracking venture in S.Yorkshire - which is about 1km from Anston Stones Wood.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/11/yorkshire-village-petrochemical-ineos-fracking

In the field south of this pin from what I've found out..

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Dinnington+Rd,+Woodsetts/@53.3489429,-1.1806087,667m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x4879a051d00aad6b:0xb9a0990a310b44d0!8m2!3d53.3489397!4d-1.17842

Sounds like it'll be a very unwelcome noisy neigbour to the village of Woodsetts. As its only (at the moment?) a test hole then I suspect there will be no seismic effects (that could affect local areas - including Anston climbing..) but I thought it worth flagging up to people here.

(My personal view is that I suspect any UK fracking will be far better regulated than in the States (e.g. fewer safety/pollution issues) BUT the govt subsidising fracking / simmilar gas exploration is outrageous when it should be promoting alternative non fossil fuel energy sources. In other words I'm against it )

[SA Chris]

Yep, and new fossil fuel development should be resisted.

(yes I know what I do for a living).


Plus Ratcliffe is a bit of a twat.

[SamT]

probably a bit off topic but been meaning to post this :

http://www.itm-power.com/project/wind-hydrogen-development-platform

A friend of mine insists that we're barking up the wrong tree with battery powered electric cars (rare earth minerals etc etc) and should be looking at hydrogen fuel cells, to run the EVs.

I've done a bit of googling and it seems California is starting down that road with about a 100 filling stations to date.

Saw a Sheffield City council van with a sticker 'Powered by Hydrogen' so thought where does it get its H from,  Turns out its from the wind powered filling station off the parkway.  Its the smaller turbine, i.e. the one that actually turns, that its connected to.  Its only the start, but might be the way things need to go.

[teestub]

Wasn’t the choice between batteries and H initially made for the safety concerns of everyone driving about with a mini Hindenburg? I have no idea how this compares to driving about with a tank of unleaded!

There appears to be some moves toward Li Battery recycling but this is limited due to the rapidly changing battery technology.

[tomtom]

Wasn’t the choice between batteries and H initially made for the safety concerns of everyone driving about with a mini Hindenburg? I have no idea how this compares to driving about with a tank of unleaded!

There appears to be some moves toward Li Battery recycling but this is limited due to the rapidly changing battery technology.

Arent parts of the technology quite transferrable - in that Fuel to EV's requires quite a shift in car design (location of batteries and engine/transmission etc..) but EV's to H isnt so bad as you are effectively replacing the battery with a fuel cell...

[bigironhorse]

My neighbour runs an engineering company and they specialise in manufacturing battery powered tools (I think). I was chatting to him about battery development and he seemed to suggest that we are still very much in the exponential phase of battery development so will be interesting to see where it goes. He reckoned it was just as likely that we'll soon be driving hydrogen powered cars as battery powered ones.

[Nutty]

Wasn’t the choice between batteries and H initially made for the safety concerns of everyone driving about with a mini Hindenburg? I have no idea how this compares to driving about with a tank of unleaded!

There appears to be some moves toward Li Battery recycling but this is limited due to the rapidly changing battery technology.

I think it's more the infrastructure needed to supply hydrogen. There's already a grid for charging batteries from.

[SamT]

There's already a grid for charging batteries from.

Which relies on the currently mostly fossil fueled and in-efficient Mains grid.  Also takes a [relatively] long time to charge a battery compared with a quick re-fill of H.

If the money being invested in battery tech was re directed to Hydrogen development, we'd get there much quicker non? Just seems that we're focused in slightly the wrong direction.

[SA Chris]

Either way is good, just not fossil fuel.

[galpinos]

Which relies on the currently mostly fossil fueled and in-efficient Mains grid. 

Currently about 50% from fossil fuels (annually) and that will keep decreasing. The joy of an EV is the source of electricity can keep changing. How long until we all have solar panels charging the home battery and keeping the car topped up. The amount of electricity needed for the average commute is pretty minimal.

re. the "inefficient mains grid", what level of losses would be acceptable to you? The max losses of the grid are estimated at between 7 and 8% for the worst case scenario?

If the money being invested in battery tech was re directed to Hydrogen development, we'd get there much quicker non? Just seems that we're focused in slightly the wrong direction 

How are you intending on getting your hydrogen? If it's in the UK on the mass scale required for the number or private vehicles we have, the electricity used to make your hydrogen is the same electricity used to power your electric car.

I would agree that EVs in private ownership aren't the solution, it's a reduction in private car ownership, improvements in public transport, walking and cycling infrastructure, car sharing/pooling, working from home etc. It's a change of lifestyle and attitude, from how we live to lusting after a massive hunk of metal, natural resources and carbon pollution that is far bigger than required for 95% of journeys that spends 95% of it's time stationary doing nothing.

[tomtom]

I see EV's as being part of the path towards driverless - and then ownerless cars...

[galpinos]

I see EV's as being part of the path towards driverless - and then ownerless cars...

So do I, I'm just moving to a project making a new cathode material for EV batteries (if the board approve the funding)!

[teestub]

I see EV's as being part of the path towards driverless - and then ownerless cars...

I think this is defintely part of Ol' Musky's vision; where 'your' car takes you to work and then buggers off for the day until you need it again.

[teestub]

I assume they’re still doing pretty well with the Prius currently, which seems to be the go to hybrid for a lot of people, especially Uber drivers in London! 

I guess with full electric (BEV) only accounting for single figure %ages in the market still it seems that they may be well placed strategically to see which way the wind blows between H and Li whilst their competitors are doing the leg work technology wise? 

Back on the OP Ratcliffe is definitely an A Hole and has managed to make one of the most hated pro cycling teams an even easier target!

[tomtom]

Looking st the ev forums (I dabble every few weeks) it seems prices (new) have gone up in the last 6-9 months and new deal discounts have gone or reduced a lot. There are also some massive waiting lists for the newer models with longer ranges (Kia Niro Ev now 9 months plus) with demand considerably outstripping supply. Li-ion production an issue apparently...

Sister in law has a Zoe...