[hstmoore]

I've recently started my first siege at the crag of kings.

It took me one or two sessions to get all the moves and for the last 5 or so sessions I've been falling off on the very last move every time.

For some reason it's really fun and I'm enjoying it. I think this is a combination of the moves being good, the crux being right at the top, knowing that it is possible and that every attempt is good training. I also think that there's a condition the route satisfies: it's 30 minutes from my house. When a route is a long way away, and you can only climb it once a month or less, then not succeeding becomes more stressful because you know it's a long time before you can try again.

I think siegeing has taught me about the false dichotomy of success/failure. When I climbed predominantly onsight trad it seemed like an onsight was a success, ground up was decent, and everything else was failure. Adhering to this success/failure structure can be quite limiting: I often see in my climbing, and in other's, a fear of failure that is a disadvantage inclimbing and enjoying climbing.

But in fact, as you guys have mentioned there's lots of micro successes to be had: refining beta, finding a new sequence etc. This realisation helps to dispel the blinkered approach of of 'success or failure' and so sieging can actually be good for the head - onsight, trad or sport!

[shark]

A question for you serious siegers out there, especially Shark. After umpteen number of sessions on the route, are you still driven to get it done? Or do you lapse into a 'going through the motions' state of mind?

Yes I am still driven to get it done. The question of what will it take to get it done is a recurring daily question. My other climbing and training is usually underpinned with the thoughts of will this help me or hinder me from getting up the Oak. It has given me the motivation to train and keep control of my weight.

When I walk into Malham my pace quickens as I approach the crag. I warm up, get recruited and get into the best mental state I can for the route which is controlled aggression. I like the fact that I have try really hard and dig deep on the route. I'm not strong enough to make any headway on it if I was just going through the motions.

If I am struggling to get motivated to try really hard then I take it as a sign that I need to lay off the route for a while - might be ejust a week or the rest of the season - but when I go back I always regain the enthusiasm principally because I like being at Malham and the moves on the Oak are so good and it makes me motivated and try really hard. Any progress is a success - doing the new low link from the 2nd bolt to the top the other day was really exciting. 

There are obviously a lot of conditions frustrations - too hot, too cold, seepage, humidity and unfortunately I have to have everything going for me to be in with a chance. Also the drive pisses me off after a while.

Life without the Oak will be different - though I have my next project already in mind. Don't want to end up like Stuey Five Bellies.

[Will Hunt]

Some people have suggested that they don't think Shark will get up the Oak. I find this ludicrous. I believe absolutely 100% that he will do it this season. When it happens I am going to whoop and jump around and punch the air with joy wherever I happen to be. I love to see other people give absolutely everything in the pursuit of a climbing goal, at whatever level that might be. Shark's siege of the Oak is perhaps the finest example of that in British climbing at the moment. I would even pay money to be on the Catwalk watching when he clips the chain. The place will just go mental. The peregrines won't have a clue what's going on.
ALLEZ SIMON 


This has all made me feel loads better about having done something like 6 or 7 sessions on Red Baron Roof. The timing of a Font trip and the need to preserve skin for that, and the end of the season means that I'll have to wait for next grit season to try again - but I do think that with a good complement of skin and some good connies it will go.

[Duncan campbell]

Hope you get it done Shark - I am both in awe of your mental resilience and also appalled in a way

Interested to know - are you going harder for the next one? Or are you going to drop the grade and try and do loads of really good routes?

[shark]

Some people have suggested that they don't think Shark will get up the Oak. I find this ludicrous. I believe absolutely 100% that he will do it this season.

Thanks Will but unfortunately I don't share your optimism - it may have to wait till the Autumn now. The temps went from 2.5degrees last thursday to 19degrees yesterday. I think I squandered my best opportunity on Monday. Conditions, weight and everything was looking good then I discovered I couldn't stand the footholds as the toes of my whites had gone soft.     Thanks again - I'm touched you are so psyched for me.

[shark]

Hope you get it done Shark - I am both in awe of your mental resilience and also appalled in a way

Interested to know - are you going harder for the next one? Or are you going to drop the grade and try and do loads of really good routes?

Harder obvs - to do otherwise would be to accept that I was old and on the decline which is a self fulfilling prophecy. At some point I will have to face the fact that I am actually in decline then I have the opportunity to do all those good routes I missed out on - on the way down as it were.

[slackline]

Harder obvs

Rainshadow next then?

[shark]

Harder obvs

Rainshadow next then?

 

[T_B]

Some people have suggested that they don't think Shark will get up the Oak. I find this ludicrous.

It's not ludicrous given how relatively weak he is and the fact that it's a short 8b. I don't doubt for a minute that he's capable of it. Harsh maybe, but most people operating at that grade and above wouldn't exactly consider his preparation to be optimum. He joined the Schoolroom and went once, despite that being the potential key to him doing the Oak IMO. Instead he prefers to do his own thing and spend the winter grit bouldering, which isn't exactly known for getting you stronger!

[Will Hunt]

spend the winter grit bouldering, which isn't exactly known for getting you stronger!

 

I thought limit bouldering was supposed to be THE way of getting strong, be it on grit or a board?

[Dexter]

I had an interesting experience the other day on this topic. Previously (3-4 years ago) I had been sieging rock atrocity and falling repeatedly on the last move (standard). I ended up giving up on it as I was no longer enjoying it and the 3hr drive to the cave wasn't worth it. On monday I went back up there with the idea of trying Louis armstrong and got back on rock atrocity to see how it felt. To my surprise it went first go and I felt a strange mix of happiness and disappointment. I'd spent ages working it before and to have it suddenly be so easy felt a bit odd. It made me think if I had kept working it maybe I would have done it.
Anyways I'll stop rambling just thought I'd share.

[T_B]

spend the winter grit bouldering, which isn't exactly known for getting you stronger!

 

I thought limit bouldering was supposed to be THE way of getting strong, be it on grit or a board?

It's very difficult to limit boulder on grit, given it's so rough. Not to mention that the holds tend to be the wrong size, shape and orientation compared to Malham. Or the fact that Shark has spent a fair amount of time climbing sideways on large finger edges on a roof traverse. But any number of 9a wads have told him this...

[slackline]

Perhaps pertinent to the discussion is some perspective.  There is the quote Cheque uses in his signature...

"Never think you're that cool - you're still just climbing rocks...in the woods...with bugs...and everyone thinks you're crazy."

- Dave Graham

[petejh]

spend the winter grit bouldering, which isn't exactly known for getting you stronger!

 

I thought limit bouldering was supposed to be THE way of getting strong, be it on grit or a board?

Have you seen much grit that resembles the angle and hold type of a 40 degree board?

[T_B]

spend the winter grit bouldering, which isn't exactly known for getting you stronger!

 

I thought limit bouldering was supposed to be THE way of getting strong, be it on grit or a board?

Have you seen much grit that resembles the angle and hold type of a 40 degree board?

Yes, very clever Pete. The 30 degree board at the Schoolroom is pretty much perfect for training gently overhanging limestone on pinches, sidepulls and undercuts. Not to mention the circuit board that is covered in small holds (rather than just big blobs) and is perfect for setting AnCap and PE style circuits. What do you think BM did last winter as training for Rainshadow?

[petejh]

Exactly. Want to get good at overhanging limestone? - train on a board with smallish holds.

Want to get good at grit? - climb grit.

[davej]

Hi Shark out of interest how long have you actually been trying the Oak? Really enjoy your weekly power club posts on your quest for the Oak. Good luck success is near

[shark]

Hi Shark out of interest how long have you actually been trying the Oak? Really enjoy your weekly power club posts on your quest for the Oak. Good luck success is near

Thanks dave,

Since April 2007.

[Three Nine]

I hear a lot of waffle about the oak and 'doing what it takes', and then I hear you've got pissed  again, and I think tis just waffle after all.

[shark]

It's very difficult to limit boulder on grit, given it's so rough. Not to mention that the holds tend to be the wrong size, shape and orientation compared to Malham. Or the fact that Shark has spent a fair amount of time climbing sideways on large finger edges on a roof traverse. But any number of 9a wads have told him this...

First I should point out that eatswood is more like brown limestone as it is steep and does require core and undercuts. The finger edges might be large for you as you boulder 3 grades harder but feel small to me. I concentrated on eatswood because Tom Randall's assessment should my very weakest area was AeroPower and eatswood Reverse seemed to me to be something that I could get psyched enouh to put in the requisite effort for 2 minutes.

Also after giving up on the Oak last year in Novemenber I made serial attempts on hard-for-me up project limit problems notably Jericho Road, Rattle and Hump, Kudos, Brad Pit and Blind Date.

I accept that I never made it to Anston. So shoot me.,     

most people operating at that grade and above wouldn't exactly consider his preparation to be optimum. He joined the Schoolroom and went once, despite that being the potential key to him doing the Oak IMO. Instead he prefers to do his own thing and spend the winter grit bouldering, which isn't exactly known for getting you stronger!

Sometimes you have to go with what you are motivated by. I find it hard to excited by woodies, in fact, I have come a long way to get excited by bouldering. Yes it would have been optimal to get stuck into the school board but not if you find you cant pull on, or try as hard as you might elsewhere. Anyway I did make gains doing what I did - just not enough gain to seal the deal.

[shark]

I hear a lot of waffle about the oak and 'doing what it takes', and then I hear you've got pissed  again, and I think tis just waffle after all.

Where did I say "doing what it takes" ? I think you are putting words in my mouth. I am committed but not committed and dedicated and self-disciplined enough to make every sacrifice going.

[dave]

Hi Shark out of interest how long have you actually been trying the Oak? Really enjoy your weekly power club posts on your quest for the Oak. Good luck success is near

Thanks dave,

Since April 2007.

Fuck me.

Shark just sack off all the other bullshit and do a 3-month block on the school 50 board, your finger strength, power, and bodytension will go through the roof, then you'll get on it in autumn and all the moves will be so easy you'd not even get powered out or pumped. You will get your ass handed to you on a silver platter to begin with I promise you, but having broken you down it will then build you back up again. This advice comes with Dave's cast iron guarantee.

[Will Hunt]

You're the man, Simon. You're the champ. Don't let these wannabes tell you otherwise. A cloudy day, a breeze, the right shoes, and there's no reason you shouldn't nail it.

[tomtom]

Have you tried pissing outside the pot Simon?

[petejh]

It's very difficult to limit boulder on grit, given it's so rough. Not to mention that the holds tend to be the wrong size, shape and orientation compared to Malham. Or the fact that Shark has spent a fair amount of time climbing sideways on large finger edges on a roof traverse. But any number of 9a wads have told him this...

I concentrated on eatswood because Tom Randall's assessment should my very weakest area was AeroPower and eatswood Reverse seemed to me to be something that I could get psyched enouh to put in the requisite effort for 2 minutes.
 
Sometimes you have to go with what you are motivated by. I find it hard to excited by woodies, in fact, I have come a long way to get excited by bouldering.

You really know how to pick projects that suit your strengths don't you Shark 

Being motivated for the climbing on The Oak is only one half of the equation. Being motivated to do the training that gets your body into the shape to send it being the other half that's notably lacking in you.