[Dexter]

And, if correctly carried on with proper training, a siege can result in a big overall progress.
People tend to think about a siege only with respect to a single climb, but sieging is a way of seeing the overall process: years of training are a siege, and they are part and prerequisite of the single siege of the single climb.

Seconded. At the risk of sounding like a pretentious twat, a siege isn't about the tick it's about the journey. Going from not even being able to hold the holds or do single moves to blasting your way through the problem or route feels great. Plus it gives a motivation to train for rather than just get stronger because stronger is better.

[SA Chris]

I just can't bring myself to go beyond a few sessions. My longest RP to date (power-endurance routes really do suck you in) felt like more of a relief than anything else whereas climbing heaps of high quality routes is just brilliant.

Back to the life-decisions tangent, I wonder if in 10 years time (or less) I'll have exhausted the low-hanging fruit nearby and be forced into endless sieges.

I think you've answered your own question/s

[cowboyhat]

'The greater the struggle, the greater the reward.'
'The way is the goal'.

And other pithy Confusionisms that have appeared in Segal films. I concur of course. Sieging is like a career, you don't become a heart surgeon on your third try.

(Not my career obviously, some other contributor).

[tomtom]

Wax on. Wax off.

[cowboyhat]

Wax on. Wax off.

No not that, Daniel was a bully.

[SA Chris]

Sieging is like a career, you don't become a heart surgeon on your third try.

What, you need to fail and resit your exams a few times? Then kill a few patients before you get the hang of it?

[Bonjoy]

Sieging just seems to me like an inefficient way of getting from A to B in most cases. It also seems like a good way to slow down your overall progress whilst giving the illusion of improvement. Learning the moves only takes a certain amount of time and there is only so many times you can go on something and expect to keep improving. This being the case the only thing which will eventually break the siege is what you do OTHER than when you are on the route. It’s like trying to get a driving licence by taking your test every day until you pass. It might work in the end but it’s not efficient and you are likely to get bored/stressed and waste a lot of time you could spend having fun or improving at something else.
To give an example at the extreme end – does anyone seriously think Stone has maximised his grade potential by serially sieging routes that are a bit too hard for him? Surely spending those 15 years or so doing things he could have ticked in a few visits would have gradually raised his ability to the point where he could have ticked the routes he sieged but done them quickly and probably surpassed them. It’s the classic grade trap. There are rare times and places for the siege approach but climbers should be under no illusion that by doing so they’re single-mindedly pursuing becoming a better climber.

[lagerstarfish]

back in the day, Stone cycled to the Alps from UK

with all his stuff in a rucksack rather than using paniers

he is consistent in his approach to getting from A to B

[36chambers]

Forgive my ignorance, but is there an official UKB definition of sieging?

I always thought it meant trying just one climb repeatedly for many sessions, in succession, until it eventually takes pity on you and lets you win. 

If you try something and go away and train specifically for it and then come back and do it, isn't that projecting?

[Bonjoy]

I'd agree with that, but obviously one blends into the other. The less pure in that sense the siege is then the more likely it is to be successful according to my thesis.

[Will Hunt]

To me, the defining factor of a siege is the lack of trying anything else during the time you're working it. The siegier sieges will also be characterised by the frequency of the sessions on the route/problem.

[36chambers]

My issue with having hard projects and then eventually doing them is that although my max grade may have increased, my typical day out grade hasn't. Which is quite humbling when you'd love to think of yourself as an 8A climber, but in reality you're still getting shut down on some 7A+'s... FU Red Tape Rock Over.

[tomtom]

To me, the defining factor of a siege is the lack of trying anything else during the time you're working it. The siegier sieges will also be characterised by the frequency of the sessions on the route/problem.

How do you know if you've not sieged anything Will?

[Johnny Brown]

climbers should be under no illusion that by doing so they’re single-mindedly pursuing becoming a better climber

No, but they may be single-mindedly pursuing a bigger grade.

As a spectator to many of Jim's sieges over the years, I'd say the defining characteristic is not knowing when to walk away.

[Footwork]

My issue with having hard projects and then eventually doing them is that although my max grade may have increased, my typical day out grade hasn't. Which is quite humbling when you'd love to think of yourself as an 8A climber, but in reality you're still getting shut down on some 7A+'s... FU Red Tape Rock Over.

Yeah, but red tape rock over... desperate.

You know you're seiging when you train to the cliff and walk up that hill by yourself with as much kit as you can carry. It's so windy you need to put (big) rocks on the mats to stop them blowing away and so cold that you huddle alone under the virgin boulder, just out the wind. Blowing into your shoes and closing your eyes, wishing you could just do it and go home. Each time you pull on you hope that magic strength will appear for the crux and you might start to feel your fingers again but non of that happens and you fall off. Again and again. It's getting dark, it's now drizzling, it's fucking freezing and you head back down that hill to wait for the train.

Once home you think "well that was a complete waste of time". The next day you're looking out the window and wondering if the conditions will be good to get on the project again. 

[36chambers]

My issue with having hard projects and then eventually doing them is that although my max grade may have increased, my typical day out grade hasn't. Which is quite humbling when you'd love to think of yourself as an 8A climber, but in reality you're still getting shut down on some 7A+'s... FU Red Tape Rock Over.

Yeah, but red tape rock over... desperate.

You know you're seiging when you train to the cliff and walk up that hill by yourself with as much kit as you can carry. It's so windy you need to put (big) rocks on the mats to stop them blowing away and so cold that you huddle alone under the virgin boulder, just out the wind. Blowing into your shoes and closing your eyes, wishing you could just do it and go home. Each time you pull on you hope that magic strength will appear for the crux and you might start to feel your fingers again but non of that happens and you fall off. Again and again. It's getting dark, it's now drizzling, it's fucking freezing and you head back down that hill to wait for the train.

Once home you think "well that was a complete waste of time". The next day you're looking out the window and wondering if the conditions will be good to get on the project again. 

That just sounds like another day at the crag.

[Fiend]

I did Red Tape the route the other day, it were right ace. My mate who is a 7c+/8a sieger backed off it.

No, but they may be single-mindedly pursuing a bigger grade.

No wonder it's a miserable and likely unsuccessful process.

[SA Chris]

I think it's more a mental state than an activity or time based one. When all your mental focus is on that single route or problem for the siege duration where, although you might dabble a bit in other things, at the front of your mind is that route / problem and getting it done.

[Paul B]

I think you've answered your own question/s

You think? I'm obviously being slow:

In my mind it's answered:
a) I don't like sieging
b) I will likely run out of "low hanging fruit"

and hasn't answered
c) will I regret it / what to do about it

[SA Chris]

Who knows, impossible to say at this stage / do whatever "feels" right for you at the time, just like every other major decision you make in life.

FWIW I've only ever sieged (by the definition) one route in my life,  as it was what all my mates were doing at the time, and in the faded memories (20 years ago) and while it was my hardest lead ever, the experience doesn't stand out in my mind as being any more enjoyable or memorable than any fantastic routes I've done before or since, either as flashes, onsights, or quick redpoints. In fact the actual ascent I just went into autopilot mode and don't remember than much about it.

[cowboyhat]

Sieging just seems to me like an inefficient way of getting from A to B in most cases. It also seems like a good way to slow down your overall progress whilst giving the illusion of improvement. Learning the moves only takes a certain amount of time and there is only so many times you can go on something and expect to keep improving. This being the case the only thing which will eventually break the siege is what you do OTHER than when you are on the route. It’s like trying to get a driving licence by taking your test every day until you pass. It might work in the end but it’s not efficient and you are likely to get bored/stressed and waste a lot of time you could spend having fun or improving at something else.
To give an example at the extreme end – does anyone seriously think Stone has maximised his grade potential by serially sieging routes that are a bit too hard for him? Surely spending those 15 years or so doing things he could have ticked in a few visits would have gradually raised his ability to the point where he could have ticked the routes he sieged but done them quickly and probably surpassed them. It’s the classic grade trap. There are rare times and places for the siege approach but climbers should be under no illusion that by doing so they’re single-mindedly pursuing becoming a better climber.

Totally agree and have realised I don't actually advocate seiging in the way its being used. More having a project at which you make progress.

[petejh]

c) will I regret it / what to do about it

Will you regret not spending your free time hanging off a rusty bolt in Yorkshire asking for beta? Unlikely.

What to do about it.. do what everyone else does:

a. go to european crags often
b. give up climbing and take up road biking


Let's hope we remain in the EU for your sake!

[Paul B]

you missed:
c) enjoy and involve oneself in other aspects of climbing beyond sport-climbing.

and thanks, that affirms my life choices and I can continue being a lazy quick tick person.

[a dense loner]

This will also give you the insight into knowing you could have climbed harder without actually doing it cos you're a lot better all round than the guy that sieges. Or if you siege you will have the insight of knowing you could have ticked a lot more easier things without actually doing them cos they fall so far below your top grade and that's what you've been training for.
From reading a lot of the replies it always seems to be what you do wrt person x and who is better. Person x counts for shit. Do what you want depending on your circumstances and wonder about it when you have no chance of doing anything about it. That way your ego will allow you to have always been better if you'd have chose the other way than what you did.
I share the same birthday as seagal.

[rich d]

I share the same birthday as seagal.