[webbo]

My longest siege was 3 days Myra Hindley at Kilnsey. I did it first red point on the third day if I hadn't I wasn't ever going to go near it again. I got less stressed at work.

[Will Hunt]

It's interesting that a couple of people have mentioned, in unfavourable terms, moving onto the route a couple of doors down once they've finished on one project. I'm guessing that this is referring to places like Malham, Kilnsey and the Tor.
If you'd rather have a change of scenery, is there any reason that you wouldn't go and do one of the hard routes at some other crag? What is it that brings you back to those bigger crags again and again? Availability of beta/partners? Quality of climbing (aren't all these places horribly polished?)? Not a loaded question, just interested.

[WilliCrater]

.... is there any reason that you wouldn't go and do one of the hard routes at some other crag?

Not everyone has this option based on where they live - myself for one.

[monkoffunk]

Climbing is this ever evolving thing, and although it really is about the goal, and succeeding, and getting to the top; at the same time, it's a never ending cycle of finding something you're really motivated on, obsessing over it, and then when you get to the top, celebrating for a little while, and then moving on to the next thing. That's just what I think anyway.

[cheque]

The only thing I've ever properly Seiged (as in more than 5 sessions, not going to any other crags in between) was Gorilla Warfare. I was really psyched when I did that and I still smile when I think of how good it felt.

I've had the same feeling from onsights and quicker redpoints too though- the uniting factor seems to be how hard I tried.

The anticlimaxes have been the routes when, like Guy says, I've felt like it should have gone on a particular go or session and it's had to wait 'till next time.

[Andy F V2.0]

Real seiging, i.e. 20+ sessions is a mental exercise. The ability to get something positive, however slight, out of each session on a route or bloc is vital. The end result is amazingly sweet. I can still remember the feeling of clipping the belay on Grooved Arete. The scream of YYFY could be heard in Skipton...

[monkoffunk]

What about the build up to a route? I've never really tried Cider Soak, but I've belayed a lot on it and I think it looks amazing. I want to do it, and I want it to be really hard. To be fair, no chance it won't be! Just would be a shame if it wasn't.

[Doylo]

From William Bosi:

I only really spent the first day working the route and then went straight into redpointing

That's outrageous, what a total wad. Second only to Ondra on that route.

[Doylo]

Real seiging, i.e. 20+ sessions is a mental exercise. The ability to get something positive, however slight, out of each session on a route or bloc is vital. The end result is amazingly sweet. I can still remember the feeling of clipping the belay on Grooved Arete. The scream of YYFY could be heard in Skipton...

The longer it goes on the harder the mental side gets. Surprised Sharks not in a padded cell yet.

[andy popp]

Real seiging, i.e. 20+ sessions is a mental exercise. The ability to get something positive, however slight, out of each session on a route or bloc is vital. The end result is amazingly sweet. I can still remember the feeling of clipping the belay on Grooved Arete. The scream of YYFY could be heard in Skipton...

The longer it goes on the harder the mental side gets. Surprised Sharks not in a padded cell yet.

Especially with us lot chipping in left, right and centre the whole time.

[Doylo]

Par for the course when you own a climbing forum 

[petejh]

Real seiging, i.e. 20+ sessions is a mental exercise. The ability to get something positive, however slight, out of each session on a route or bloc is vital. The end result is amazingly sweet. I can still remember the feeling of clipping the belay on Grooved Arete. The scream of YYFY could be heard in Skipton...

The longer it goes on the harder the mental side gets. Surprised Sharks not in a padded cell yet.

Especially with us lot chipping in left, right and centre the whole time.

I think chipping in from left, right and even centre is an inevitable and normal response to somebody choosing to undergo what's probably the longest redpoint siege ever known to man and posting a weekly siege update on a public forum year after year (after year after year). To not chuckle about that would be weird.

Shark's siege of Austrian Oak is longer than:
The Siege of Tripoli (7 years)


http://listverse.com/2013/09/20/10-of-the-longest-sieges-in-history/


New thread - 'longest sieges'?

[andy popp]

Don't get me the wrong, the chipping in is exactly as it should be!

[Will Hunt]

Shark's siege of Austrian Oak is longer than:
The Siege of Tripoli (7 years)


http://listverse.com/2013/09/20/10-of-the-longest-sieges-in-history/

Not to mention the Siege of Thessalonica. Bloody good siege that, bloody good siege.

[moose]

I think chipping in from left, right and even centre is an inevitable and normal response to somebody choosing to undergo what's probably the longest redpoint siege ever known to man and posting a weekly siege update on a public forum year after year (after year after year). To not chuckle about that would be weird.

Not to mention the decidedly disturbing "confessions of a suicide bomber" style video he posted.....

Mind you, I almost envy Shark's siege.  At least he always knows what he's going to do when he arrives at the crag.  It's like how Einstein supposedly owned lots of identical outfits - to avoid his genius being distracted by the burden  of choice. 

Also, the length of the affair lends what is essentially a pointless pastime (climbing up to arbitrary points on a crag you can walk to the top of) a certain nobility or epic grandeur.  My own sieges might have the virtue of relative brevity, but are characterised by haphazard incompetence and bewildered self-pity, rather than Shark's comparatively stolid dedication and seriousness.  Shark on the Oak is the Homer and Troy.... me on Zoolook and Soft Option - Stalingrad but re-enacted with Monty Python's cow-throwing catapult.

[Andy F V2.0]

I think chipping in from left, right and even centre is an inevitable and normal response to somebody choosing to undergo what's probably the longest redpoint siege ever known to man and posting a weekly siege update on a public forum year after year (after year after year). To not chuckle about that would be weird.

Not to mention the decidedly disturbing "confessions of a suicide bomber" style video he posted.....

Mind you, I almost envy Shark's siege.  At least he always knows what he's going to do when he arrives at the crag.  It's like how Einstein supposedly owned lots of identical outfits - to avoid his genius being distracted by the burden  of choice. 

Also, the length of the affair lends what is essentially a pointless pastime (climbing up to arbitrary points on a crag you can walk to the top of) a certain nobility or epic grandeur.  My own sieges might have the virtue of relative brevity, but are characterised by haphazard incompetence and bewildered self-pity, rather than Shark's comparatively stolid dedication and seriousness.  Shark on the Oak is the Homer and Troy.... me on Zoolook and Soft Option - Stalingrad but re-enacted with Monty Python's cow-throwing catapult.

Your sieges only seem long because you climb at the same speed as an arthritic snail

[moose]

Tortoise and the hare, fella, I get there in the end.... bide your time long enough and even gravity gets bored.

[Wil]

I'm not one for a siege in a big way. 3 or 4 sessions is enough for me, but in part it's because I don't get on many things hard enough to require more, or if I do it's more of a dabble-siege - i.e. I'll have a play, then 12 months later another play... very occasionally I finish these off.

I started redpointing sport routes in 2009, and it was a total revelation to me how much difference it would make to my fitness and aspirations, and this was only on 3 day "sieges". Body Machine is the only one I deliberately put a lot of sessions into, I got very close in 2014, but a combination of persistently humid conditions, illness and seepage ended the campaign just as I got close. I'll reopen the account soon.

One route which I guess was a siege because of the length of time from first acquaintance to redpoint was Sardine, but really I did it pretty quickly once I set my mind to it.

I wrote a blogpost about it if anyone's interested. A few friends seemed to like it.

[bendavison]

Climbing is this ever evolving thing, and although it really is about the goal, and succeeding, and getting to the top; at the same time, it's a never ending cycle of finding something you're really motivated on, obsessing over it, and then when you get to the top, celebrating for a little while, and then moving on to the next thing. That's just what I think anyway.

Ha, nice one.

One route which I guess was a siege because of the length of time from first acquaintance to redpoint was Sardine, but really I did it pretty quickly once I set my mind to it.

My own sieges might have the virtue of relative brevity, but are characterised by haphazard incompetence and bewildered self-pity, rather than Shark's comparatively stolid dedication and seriousness.  Shark on the Oak is the Homer and Troy.... me on Zoolook and Soft Option - Stalingrad but re-enacted with Monty Python's cow-throwing catapult.

A question for you serious siegers out there, especially Shark. After umpteen number of sessions on the route, are you still driven to get it done? Or do you lapse into a 'going through the motions' state of mind?

[moose]

A question for you serious siegers out there, especially Shark. After umpteen number of sessions on the route, are you still driven to get it done? Or do you lapse into a 'going through the motions' state of mind?

I don't really class myself as a serious sieger - my longest have taken-up virtually an entire season - and then been finished off relatively quickly the next season - Raindogs, Zoolook.  Soft Option was within a single season but pretty much occupied it entirely.

But, in answer to your question, I definitely have periods during my longer campaigns when it just feels like a job.  I turn-up with no expectation of success, often in ludicrously poor conditions, just for the lack of anything better to do.  I fall off a few times, and then go home valuing a good day's exercise (when I was doing Soft Option I had numerous days of falling off virtually the final move 4-5 times a session - so it was one hell of a work-out).  A good day was one when I didn't feel I had gone backwards. 

Sometimes after a while I've got sufficiently sick of it, temporarily conceded defeat, and freshened up my focus and hunger with a shorter term project maybe a grade or two easier.  Spent around 4 sessions ticking it - and then returned "to work".  Last year it was China Crisis - hard enough that I felt real pride in having done it, came back to Soft Option re-enthused, and then did it reasonably quickly after.  Sometimes a few weekends of bouldering at crags I haven't been to before / seldom visited has served the same purpose. 

I reckon if your primary pastime is sieging, it's definitely worth having a "tactical reserve" of classic easier routes / boulder problems for crises of confidence / motivation.

[tomtom]

I have only sieged boulder problems. Keel was probably 20-30 sessions, probably several more problems where I've had ten or more sessions on it. More if you include the 'I'll just have a go while I'm here' type problems... So I can, and do sometimes like sieging - and based on the above posts there are a few recuring questions/issues....

1. Why the line - why that problem.

Thats an interesting one... I've worked on classic problems and obscure arse drags. Sometimes (I'll be honest) theres a little bit of kudos in doing a classic test piece or classic line etc.. but its often down to that odd combination of how it feels and climbs. Also, for me, is that the problem has to give me a way in.. if I can't get off the deck, or simply cannot get near one or two moves (stopper moves I call them) then the problem loses interest to me... Problems that have really sucked me in are where I have seen or tried moves, and whilst I can't do them, they feel feasible - then you find yourself getting sucked into.....

2. What drives you to continue

continued from above, if you have a problem where you make small gains, or improvements - where the problem teases you along, then you can gain satisfaction from driving 3 hours, warming up for 20 min, then spending 40 min on 5 failed attempts. Momentum, I guess... Sometimes you go backwards, regress, and the odd day you can write off as being tired/crap conditions etc.. but if you can see some positive in how new beta, or a new foot position etc.. makes a difference then its worth it. Like Moose said, sometimes it feels like a job, sometimes there is comfort in the familiarity of being under the same lump of rock, waving to the farmer (again), seeing the same people at the crag. I've never thought that 'I've put too much into this to walk away' - I have no problem with leaving something if its not working for me...

3. Is it really that good when you do your siege?

Yes.

When you complete something where you have laid in bed thinking through the moves many, many times for - over many weeks/months, I will internally bask in the glory of completing it, play it through in my head and feel very very happy. Often for a week or more, my mind will pop back to it and I will smile and feel satisfied.

For me, there is no whoop/high five/yeah mother fucker type moments after finishing a siege, it is more of a slow burn - a real satisfaction, some relief - and some yessssss...

4. Is there a void after you've completed your siege?

No. Move on to the next one

[dave]

I find if something takes more than 3-4 sessions over the space of a few weeks then I lose interest. It's not so bad if it's at a crag where there's plenty of other climbing to be done in case you feel off the pace or the connies are bad or whatever. But if you're trying to do something on it's own with not much else to do I can't be doing with it.

In the past I've had more success with silently abandoning projects then going away and coming back stronger and then doing it relatively quickly next season than I have with sieging.

The other thing with sieging stuff is once you're into this mindsent and the "I love sieging stuff" then you're at risk of being a self-fulfilling prophecy. Who remembers watching Keith on Mecca week in week out, climb perfectly to the top of the groove then just drop off with everyone just thinking "just fucking slap a bit"?

[T_B]

Not for me. 5 or 6 sessions at most. Moffatt said he used to work out what he needed to do, go away and train then come back almost overly prepared so that he could send quickly. I don't think I have the mentality for the long siege, so doubt I'd ever test my absolute limit. For me the challenge is to work out the tactics/training to get something climbed relatively quickly. That said there are a few things I've been trying on and off over the years.

[Hoseyb]

I'm a rubbish sieger. I like to do things quick and if it's not working I'll go away and specifically train the heck out, obsess, and get on with other stuff until it suddenly occurs to me I should have another go.  my longest boulder siege was "Its not the years it's the mileage" which was 8 years, but because it always seemed so far out of reach, It probably only amounted to 20-30 sessions. It took too long to consider another go. Routes was a lot shorter, as I was afraid someone would beat me to it. A couple of months 15-20 sessions really.

[JohnM]

Trying something for two six weeks windows a year (e.g. Spring and Autumn) is probably optimal.  In between trying and hopefully ticking easier problems/routes which is good mentally and if they are a similar style to the project then even better.  This time away from the project gives you time to look at the bigger picture and assess tactics and do specific training.  You see so many people sieging every year and they haven't even changed their tactics from the year before.  There is either still a major physical barrier that just keeping on trying the route won't change or mentally it has become too tough.