[Sloper]

Well our trip to Blackstones Edge was an utter washout so we thought, ho hum, best potter around on some plastic before going to the pub, and being in the area went to Climb Rochdale.

Well let's start with the positive aspects.

1. I never have to go back.

Right, that's over let's move on to the failures.

1. Route setting, utterly shit, using often broken holds, very old holds, nasty holds and all compounded by utterly shit route setting. (Yes I know the last one is a repeat, but it needs repeating, the route setting was utterly shit). How you can produce such shit walls with a more than half decent Beacon wall takes a special talent.

2. Upstairs; where do you being? Well, let's start with the matting.  It's simply not on to say that the mats are utterly shit but we've thrown some 2" gum mats around on top and its your responsibility to move them around to make it marginally less dangerous.

3. Old School is fine at Pex Hill but not in a commercial wall, the walls upstairs are not only old school, but they have not aged well. Painting over screw on holds to minimise friction is not a good thing.  Then there's the route setting, it seems like they put the good problems downstairs.  Broken holds with sharp edges, dirty holds, problems that involve lunges from good holds to good holds are the highlights.   The upper walls are simply unsafe and a claim waiting to happen.

I think it was the manager who when we said we'd just come to boulder said 'if it's bouldering you're after you've come to the right place' suggests a lack of self awareness which is quite staggering.

Can anyone nominate a wall to surpass Climb Rochdale in terms of being utterly shit?

PS Climb Rochdale, if you're reading this, all is not lost.

1. Buy a dozen sets of nice new holds.
2. Employ a couple of decent route setters and have them set circuits.
3. Sort the matting out upstairs and rip out the old walls and throw up some panels.

Climb Rochdale was the last time I went (I think it was Nik's stag do how ever long ago that was) a quite decent wall and it could be again, but it needs radical surgery to survive.

[bigtuboflard]

Looks like the dangerous matting isn't their only fault when it comes to customer safety http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/climb-rochdale-fined-14000-over-699207

[Sloper]

1. That was the previous owners.
2. I could give a rats arse if the kitchen was infected by cockroaches as I don't go to a wall to eat.
3. I wonder if there's anyone with more than 15 minutes experience (other than in a call center) running the place?

[Muenchener]

It's nowhere near as bad as your description of Rochdale, but a common problem I see is circuits that are too homogenous in difficulty. This can result in having one circuit where you can do most things in a couple of goes and not find them very interesting, but have no chance whatsoever on anything on the next harder circuit.

You even get this at otherwise very good walls, e.g. I was in Cafe Kraft in Nürnberg a couple of weeks ago after fleeing from hailstorms in the Frankenjura.

Admittedly I mostly have this experience at walls where I'm an occasional or one-off visitor, and it might be less of a problem for locals who are able and willing to start projecting the next circuit, but I have seen places that do it better with a bit of overlap or a less drastic transition.

[bigtuboflard]

1. That was the previous owners.

My error. Doesn't sound like things have improved though.

[Oldmanmatt]

It's nowhere near as bad as your description of Rochdale, but a common problem I see is circuits that are too homogenous in difficulty. This can result in having one circuit where you can do most things in a couple of goes and not find them very interesting, but have no chance whatsoever on anything on the next harder circuit.

You even get this at otherwise very good walls, e.g. I was in Cafe Kraft in Nürnberg a couple of weeks ago after fleeing from hailstorms in the Frankenjura.

Admittedly I mostly have this experience at walls where I'm an occasional or one-off visitor, and it might be less of a problem for locals who are able and willing to start projecting the next circuit, but I have seen places that do it better with a bit of overlap or a less drastic transition.

No this is an immense problem. I have battles with our setters constantly, particularly at the lower end circuits. They struggle to grasp what "absolute beginner" means and cannot seem to understand that smoothly overlapping circuits of varied and increasing difficulty, enable people to progress without utter shutdown or getting bored. The attitude that "V1/V0/VB is beneath me" is going to lose some people their jobs soon...
My favourite quote "If I can do it in my flip flops, it's V1", translates to permanent toilet cleaning duties and removal of setting privileges.

It's damn hard to keep on top of though.
And 12 sets of holds = £12000 at least. Matting, £15-30K to replace and if you're not getting the footfall?

Ladies and Gentlemen, let me introduce you to "The Edge" (deceased, RIP).

[Sloper]

It's nowhere near as bad as your description of Rochdale, but a common problem I see is circuits that are too homogenous in difficulty. This can result in having one circuit where you can do most things in a couple of goes and not find them very interesting, but have no chance whatsoever on anything on the next harder circuit.

You even get this at otherwise very good walls, e.g. I was in Cafe Kraft in Nürnberg a couple of weeks ago after fleeing from hailstorms in the Frankenjura.

Admittedly I mostly have this experience at walls where I'm an occasional or one-off visitor, and it might be less of a problem for locals who are able and willing to start projecting the next circuit, but I have seen places that do it better with a bit of overlap or a less drastic transition.

There were no circuits, there was no craft, there was no thought.

Grades indoors can be difficult, I generally find the problems at The Climbing Works to be very easy for the given grade when they rely on guile but bloody hard when strength/power is required, but mentioning TCW and CR in the same sentence is almost an offence to TCW.

This wasn't about grades being a bit off or there being a serious gap between say 6a-c and then 7+  it was about problems being set by someone who had no idea of route setting and probably very little experience of bouldering.

I'd previously have nominated Rock Over in Manchester for this award but by god Climb Rochdale is a clear winner of the golden 

[Muenchener]

I wasn't that inspired on my one visit to Rockover in Manchester either, but I wouldn't describe it as out & out crap.  Not any of the other modern bouldering walls I've been to either. Clearly some walls - Tom's place in Loughborough as an obvious e.g. since I've never been to TCW - have more inspired setting than others, but a modern wall needs to be pretty spectacularly mismanaged as per your story to achieve actual crapness.

I agree "oh dear the 6A circuit is boring but I can't do anything on the 6C circuit" is a rather minor complaint, but I struggle to think of a wall where I've experienced anything much worse than that lately. Maybe I'm either lucky or not sufficiently discriminating.

[Sloper]

The Climbing Hangar in L'pool is excellent although some of their staff need to realise that they're at work, they work in the leisure industry and demonstrate some basic levels of customer service, but despite the surly scouse approach of ignoring the paying punter we go fairly regularly because it's a bloody good wall.

Any owner of a bouldering wall should realise that the routes are their product, and the matting allows people to enjoy the product, everything else is fluff.

[moose]

Slightly off-topic as I like the place, but today I was unimpressed by the Leeds Wall's decision to have a grey, a black, and a black&grey problem all overlapping in one of the main bouldering bays!  Made for a confusing session, what with the terrible lighting (a perennial bugbear), and the policy of having grey screw-ins, which are tricky to distinguish from the black screw-ins used for the "elite" circuit, in for everything.   Still, good practice for Almscliff - getting used to that nagging sensation that someone's just about to upbraid you for using an off-limits hold!

[account_inactive]

Hull Rock Shitty is probably the worst wall I've ever visited. £9.50 to boulder. Despite plenty of new holds and decent setters it fails on so many points it's untrue. I work in Immingham so it's the closet wall to visit of an evening yet I find myself in Leeds or Sheffield instead. Theres so much wrong that I can't even be bothered to list the short comings.....just burn the place down!
Oh and if you're reading this Rock City, sending out social media adverts inviting me (as a member) to beginners lessons is rather pointless and annoying

[Oldmanmatt]

Hull Rock Shitty is probably the worst wall I've ever visited. £9.50 to boulder. Despite plenty of new holds and decent setters it fails on so many points it's untrue. I work in Immingham so it's the closet wall to visit of an evening yet I find myself in Leeds or Sheffield instead. Theres so much wrong that I can't even be bothered to list the short comings.....just burn the place down!
Oh and if you're reading this Rock City, sending out social media adverts inviting me (as a member) to beginners lessons is rather pointless and annoying

.
Unfortunately, you can't choose who the ads go to. Farcrbuck think they know far more than their customers...

[Stubbs]

Moose were you waiting for someone to do routes with at Leeds Wall? I'd be surprised if anyone went there to boulder these days with the two vastly superior options available in Leeds now!

[account_inactive]

Hull Rock Shitty is probably the worst wall I've ever visited. £9.50 to boulder. Despite plenty of new holds and decent setters it fails on so many points it's untrue. I work in Immingham so it's the closet wall to visit of an evening yet I find myself in Leeds or Sheffield instead. Theres so much wrong that I can't even be bothered to list the short comings.....just burn the place down!
Oh and if you're reading this Rock City, sending out social media adverts inviting me (as a member) to beginners lessons is rather pointless and annoying

.
Unfortunately, you can't choose who the ads go to. Farcrbuck think they know far more than their customers...

These are directed ad's to members. Non members are people who need beginners lessons. I'm sure the odd person may pass than info on but it's a poor way to market. Similar to putting up adverts in your changing room for non climbers (this also happens). I'm trying real hard to to rant about the place......just best to say nothing at all

[moose]

Moose were you waiting for someone to do routes with at Leeds Wall? I'd be surprised if anyone went there to boulder these days with the two vastly superior options available in Leeds now!

Nope, amazing as it may seem, I chose to boulder there! Admittedly, I normally go to the Depot for a "proper" beasting, but I was tired (Kilnsey on Weds and Sat) and had other stuff to do, so a quick session at Leeds fit the bill.  I've always liked the style of problems at Leeds - steep and basic - good for a quick-fire, all-over work-out without shredding the skin too much (off to Malham tomorrow). Cheap too (£5 for boulder only).  Just a shame about the lighting and occasional colour clash problems.

[Oldmanmatt]

Moose were you waiting for someone to do routes with at Leeds Wall? I'd be surprised if anyone went there to boulder these days with the two vastly superior options available in Leeds now!

Nope, amazing as it may seem, I chose to boulder there! Admittedly, I normally go to the Depot for a "proper" beasting, but I was tired (Kilnsey on Weds and Sat) and had other stuff to do, so a quick session at Leeds fit the bill.  I've always liked the style of problems at Leeds - steep and basic - good for a quick-fire, all-over work-out without shredding the skin too much (off to Malham tomorrow). Cheap too (£5 for boulder only).  Just a shame about the lighting and occasional colour clash problems.

Not been familiar with the place (read never been there), so what does poor lighting mean?

[moose]

It means that the main bouldering area is very dimly lit - to the extent that distinguishing the colours of holds is difficult (especially on dull days when there's not much illumination through the roof-lights).

[Oldmanmatt]

Is that what you meant? The spotlights?

[moose]

Aye, the spotlights on the two main overhanging bays on the right-hand side can be a bit insufficient.  Maybe the fault is partly with my eyes, although, I know I am not entirely alone in finding it occasionally too dimly lit to distinguish hold colours.

[Fiend]

Holy fuckrods, Sloper actually started a topical and interesting thread.

Albeit in the wrong forum.

The Matrix is still the worst "proper" bouldering wall I've been to. But it wasn't THAT bad, just crowded and warm and nothing special.

I'd nominate any wall that relies primarily on Holdz. Skin grinding knobbles and tip-trashing textures are not where it's at in training.

I can see where Moose is coming from that sometimes you just need a simple bouldering session with minimal skin loss.

[Muenchener]

Skin grinding knobbles and tip-trashing textures are not where it's at in training.

I went to the opening weekend of a new wall once. Felt like a manicure with a belt sander.

[Jaspersharpe]

I find I lose less skin on newer/cleaner holds. Of course they need a bit of chalk to take the edge off but over a session it's better than scummy frictionless ones caked in sweaty mank which = ripping off them when pulling hard.

But maybe that's just cos my fingers sweat like fuck and I overuse chalk to compensate. I also often seem to be the only person at the wall using a brush on every problem (that isn't a line of massive jugs).

On topic, I've not been to a shit wall in years cos I live five minutes from the Climbing Works. Hilariously, especially reading this, some people still moan about it.

[fried]

I love my wall.
I love the stting, the problems change every 2/3 weeks, different styles..

But fuck me, you say 'hello' when you arrive, the people working at reception look through you like you weren't there.

I went to shake hands with the owner the other day while he was trying some new probs with a 'wad' setter, you'd 've though I'd stolen his girl and had a shit in his shoe on the way out.

Don't know if this is a Parisian problem or back home is the same. I know you work in/ own a wall and that's cool, but don't forget you work in the service industry and a 'hello' costs nothing and's the best advertising you can get.

[ardeer]

Any owner of a bouldering wall should realise that the routes are their product

[Oldmanmatt]

I love my wall.
I love the stting, the problems change every 2/3 weeks, different styles..

But fuck me, you say 'hello' when you arrive, the people working at reception look through you like you weren't there.

I went to shake hands with the owner the other day while he was trying some new probs with a 'wad' setter, you'd 've though I'd stolen his girl and had a shit in his shoe on the way out.

Don't know if this is a Parisian problem or back home is the same. I know you work in/ own a wall and that's cool, but don't forget you work in the service industry and a 'hello' costs nothing and's the best advertising you can get.

I've had complaints that the boys won't stop talking...

Though it does seem to help if you are a pretty girl, in which case they will probably even lace your boots and brush every hold before you reach for it.