[fried]

My limited experience of walls in the U.K is the same; friendly staff, happy to chat and help punters at whatever level.

[SA Chris]

All your complaints would be silenced if you went to Aberdeen beach Leisure Centre's wall

http://www.scottishoutdoors.co.uk/outdoors/walldirectory/beach/index.cfm.htm

good points

1) It's cheap
2) It's deserted
3) It will make you all tear eyed and nostalgic for early 80s walls.

[tomtom]

Another RockCity nomination. It's not terrible per se like Slopers description of Rochdale - but it's appalling value for money - and frustrating as so many little things could be done that could make it better..

Despite living 3 miles away I chose to drive 60miles to go elsewhere...

[Danny]

Kendal Wall. I first visited the place as a young teenager (~15 years ago) who was keen to get into climbing but didn't know much about it. My enthusiasm was met with what could at best be described as cold indifference. Admittedly, that was many years ago, so maybe times have changed for contemporary newcomers. I have had a few sessions at Kendal in recent times (on the odd occasion that I've been visiting family back home) and the new bouldering wall and route setting is mediocre to poor. A lot of the angles are bad, which doesn't help, but the setting is notably balls. However, the new staff seem to be much nicer.

Re: comments about a lack of a good spread of problems through your own ability range: I'm sure there's a little truth in this between walls, but if you think about it most people have quite a narrow difficulty window between problems they can do very rapidly and problems they can't touch. Unless you're after a load of power enduro problems and nothing else it seems unlikely that this will ever change.         

[Muenchener]

Re: comments about a lack of a good spread of problems through your own ability range: I'm sure there's a little truth in this between walls, but if you think about it most people have quite a narrow difficulty window between problems they can do very rapidly and problems they can't touch. Unless you're after a load of power enduro problems and nothing else it seems unlikely that this will ever change.       

The abrupt phase transition from "2-3 goes" to "absolutely desperate" had occurred to me and I'm sure there's some truth in it. But then all the more pyschologically important to have a "blue circuit 5C to 6B" and a "red circuit 6A+ to 6C", because if the red circuit starts at 6B+ then it's immediately desperate and I as the paying customer might not like that.

[davej]

another vote for Kendal some of the worst problem setting i've seen.

[tomtom]

I'm not a huge fan of the Kendal wall either (seemed split up and disjointed - and pricey for a one off visit) but not been for a couple of years - and I hear there are new bits there now.


On setting - I think there is a real skill in setting interesting easy problems. I find Ian vickers does a good job of the easier problems at Logport wall rather than the usual big holds pull...

[Nutty]

Keswick? I thought the top rope ~30 degree wall was a great idea, especially when someone falls off and becomes a human wrecking-ball. The bouldering was rubbish as well, not helped by out-of-control kids running around. Only went because it was torrential all day and we were nearby. Wouldn't bother again.

[mr chaz]

I'd like to nominate Creation in Birmingham. Whilst it may not be the worst wall ever, I think it deserves nomination because of the massively wasted potential of this place (this strictly applies to the bouldering area - no idea on the quality of the roped climbing).

A few years ago they redid the bouldering area, expanding into space from the recently acquired skate park next door and the result was majorly disappointing; the angles are crap, too many vertical walls with corners/arêtes etc and the couple of overhanging sections are small and tbh pants. The setting is pretty ok at best, probably partly due to the poor hold selection.
The campus board is the worst I've ever seen. It's on a slightly overhanging wall but there isn't any clearance for your legs/feet as the rungs haven't been suspended out from the wall, making it pretty much unusable. 
Their one redeeming asset, the moon room, which contains a moon board and a steep (50-60 degree I reckon?) overhanging wall has been closed for the last 6 months whilst they replace the matting. Apparently it has taken 6 months because the sewing machine broke! Also the problems in here get changed roughly twice a year it seems.

Now if they could put some kind of comp style wall in the large empty space at the back this would be a great competition venue, with enough space for a decent crowd (never gonna happen!  ).

[andyd]

I'd like to nominate Creation in Birmingham. Whilst it may not be the worst wall ever, I think it deserves nomination because of the massively wasted potential of this place (this strictly applies to the bouldering area - no idea on the quality of the roped climbing).

A few years ago they redid the bouldering area, expanding into space from the recently acquired skate park next door and the result was majorly disappointing; the angles are crap, too many vertical walls with corners/arêtes etc and the couple of overhanging sections are small and tbh pants. The setting is pretty ok at best, probably partly due to the poor hold selection.
The campus board is the worst I've ever seen. It's on a slightly overhanging wall but there isn't any clearance for your legs/feet as the rungs haven't been suspended out from the wall, making it pretty much unusable. 
Their one redeeming asset, the moon room, which contains a moon board and a steep (50-60 degree I reckon?) overhanging wall has been closed for the last 6 months whilst they replace the matting. Apparently it has taken 6 months because the sewing machine broke! Also the problems in here get changed roughly twice a year it seems.

Now if they could put some kind of comp style wall in the large empty space at the back this would be a great competition venue, with enough space for a decent crowd (never gonna happen!  ).

I knew this one would come up...
Firstly, I'm not a great fan of this sort of thread. I feel it always gets a little personal.
I think it's worth remembering a couple of things...
For £6, I think you get your money's worth on the first visit. You've paid, and know what you're getting. If you continue to go and pay, that sends out the wrong message to the owners (it's fine and I'll keep coming). Very few people complain (we are indeed, British).

Then there's the clientele. They're not boulderers. Most of the money comes from school groups/scouts/youth clubs etc. The money goes there rather than the bouldering wall area.

Lastly (and historically) there have never been many climbers who are capable or experienced enough to set in the bouldering area who live in Birmingham that are willing to work there for the pay offered (see my second point).

I hope that explains a few things. I've never worked there but the owners were always very kind and generous to me when I lived there. Never forget that all of these walls are businesses and money is the ultimate goal. It's not a public service. If you don't like it, say something or vote with your feet.

( :sorry:I put the campus rungs in because I wanted a board. I used it and it help me to train a weakness. It worked for me and the angle is correct. If your feet are flailing around hitting the wall you're doing it wrong.)

[Ti_pin_man]

Interesting thread.  Well done. 

Generally I find centres that are only bouldering are miles ahead of mixed climbing places.  The climbing is fun and interesting and challenging.  Those where route setters are also doing roped routes tend to just not get bouldering. 

Examples are the excellent Craggy2 and Climb Newcastle, both pure bouldering and both 10/10 from me for their setting.  Sadly white spider is my nearest.  It's ok but not as good.  I continue to give them feedback and they are building a big bouldering comp wall so hopefully they've heard me moaning.

This is all I can suggest... Tell them why you don't enjoy it.  They won't know unless they get told!! 

[abarro81]

I put the campus rungs in because I wanted a board. I used it and it help me to train a weakness. It worked for me and the angle is correct. If your feet are flailing around hitting the wall you're doing it wrong.)

I've never seen this set-up, but in my experience any campus board which is not set out from the wall with reasonable clearance (height and depth) is total crap. So it's not just him 'doing it wrong'...

[andyd]

I put the campus rungs in because I wanted a board. I used it and it help me to train a weakness. It worked for me and the angle is correct. If your feet are flailing around hitting the wall you're doing it wrong.)

I've never seen this set-up, but in my experience any campus board which is not set out from the wall with reasonable clearance (height and depth) is total crap. So it's not just him 'doing it wrong'...

It does have clearance at the bottom, just not as much as you'd like perhaps. I put the rungs on, I didn't build the structure.

[mr chaz]

Yeah, I agree the staff are friendly and tbh I know that Creation is really catering for a different market. It's never going to be a boulderer's wall as such but it has it's place.
They had a campus board up in the moon room above the doorway which was much more usable (for me anyway!), not sure why they got rid of it?
I'm mainly just frustrated that the moon room has been shut for so long... when it opens again I will rejoice and make my return

[chris_j_s]

I have had a few sessions at Kendal in recent times (on the odd occasion that I've been visiting family back home) and the new bouldering wall and route setting is mediocre to poor. A lot of the angles are bad, which doesn't help, but the setting is notably balls. However, the new staff seem to be much nicer.

It's interesting how different peoples experiences can be! I don't think the setting is always the best there but I wouldn't say it was mediocre or poor and they do get a good variety of setters in these days to stop it getting samey.

Regarding angles I think they've got most angles covered in the new bouldering areas - what do you mean by bad angles?

[slackline]

They had a campus board up in the moon room above the doorway which was much more usable (for me anyway!), not sure why they got rid of it?

Because it was in front of a doorway perhaps?

I'd imagine having to dodge someone campusing as you enter/exit a room is as frustrating as idiots who stand in front of doorways having conversations, oblivious to the fact that they are causing an obstruction.

[Dexter]

I'd like to nominate Creation in Birmingham. Whilst it may not be the worst wall ever, I think it deserves nomination because of the massively wasted potential of this place (this strictly applies to the bouldering area - no idea on the quality of the roped climbing).

A few years ago they redid the bouldering area, expanding into space from the recently acquired skate park next door and the result was majorly disappointing; the angles are crap, too many vertical walls with corners/arêtes etc and the couple of overhanging sections are small and tbh pants. The setting is pretty ok at best, probably partly due to the poor hold selection.
The campus board is the worst I've ever seen. It's on a slightly overhanging wall but there isn't any clearance for your legs/feet as the rungs haven't been suspended out from the wall, making it pretty much unusable. 
Their one redeeming asset, the moon room, which contains a moon board and a steep (50-60 degree I reckon?) overhanging wall has been closed for the last 6 months whilst they replace the matting. Apparently it has taken 6 months because the sewing machine broke! Also the problems in here get changed roughly twice a year it seems.

Now if they could put some kind of comp style wall in the large empty space at the back this would be a great competition venue, with enough space for a decent crowd (never gonna happen!  ).

I knew this one would come up...
Firstly, I'm not a great fan of this sort of thread. I feel it always gets a little personal.
I think it's worth remembering a couple of things...
For £6, I think you get your money's worth on the first visit. You've paid, and know what you're getting. If you continue to go and pay, that sends out the wrong message to the owners (it's fine and I'll keep coming). Very few people complain (we are indeed, British).

Then there's the clientele. They're not boulderers. Most of the money comes from school groups/scouts/youth clubs etc. The money goes there rather than the bouldering wall area.

Lastly (and historically) there have never been many climbers who are capable or experienced enough to set in the bouldering area who live in Birmingham that are willing to work there for the pay offered (see my second point).

I hope that explains a few things. I've never worked there but the owners were always very kind and generous to me when I lived there. Never forget that all of these walls are businesses and money is the ultimate goal. It's not a public service. If you don't like it, say something or vote with your feet.

( :sorry:I put the campus rungs in because I wanted a board. I used it and it help me to train a weakness. It worked for me and the angle is correct. If your feet are flailing around hitting the wall you're doing it wrong.)

I disagree with the setting comment, I knew a lot of people who were good setters and were willing to work but they didnt seem to want their help, this wasn't an issue of pay as some were willing to do it free. The main issue is or was the lack of variety of setters. One or two people setting isnt going to give much variety of styles even if theyre the best in the world.

The campus rungs weren't great as I would say I'm decent at campusing and the lack of leg swinging ruins it, it also means that you cant do anything dynamic or big. That being said I never really used them as the rungs were too big.

That being said the moon room was always pretty great and to be fair the matting did need sorting.

As said before lots of wasted potential and I feel the centre was better before the new bouldering wall when there was just a small one with a few good problems.

[Baron]

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/climbing-wall-manufacturers-association

http://www.climbingwallindustry.org/index.php/standards/

This is the wall I started climbing on - built mid 80's and one of the first DR walls in the country I believe:
http://www.lindseyclimbingclub.co.uk/movies/index.php

It was fun being being creative and making up problems to burn your mates off on.

[Danny]

I have had a few sessions at Kendal in recent times (on the odd occasion that I've been visiting family back home) and the new bouldering wall and route setting is mediocre to poor. A lot of the angles are bad, which doesn't help, but the setting is notably balls. However, the new staff seem to be much nicer.

It's interesting how different peoples experiences can be! I don't think the setting is always the best there but I wouldn't say it was mediocre or poor and they do get a good variety of setters in these days to stop it getting samey.

Regarding angles I think they've got most angles covered in the new bouldering areas - what do you mean by bad angles?

Admittedly I've only visited the new bouldering bit a couple of times, corresponding to to about 8 visits climbing on two different 'sets' so I can't offer any insight into the long term consistency of the problems.

The angles are often too tight to offer setters a bit of creative leeway using volumes and the like. Examples are the boxed in roof-into-barrel feature. Too small and pokey to allow good movement, and you can smear and drop knee your way out of most of it. Similarly, that narrow prow over by the fire escape is a waste of space. As for the roof in the other room, all the problems I climbed on it were terrible. The fact that  two badly made square volumes were stuck to the underside of it at the time probably didn't help.

     

[georgenorth]

I have had a few sessions at Kendal in recent times (on the odd occasion that I've been visiting family back home) and the new bouldering wall and route setting is mediocre to poor. A lot of the angles are bad, which doesn't help, but the setting is notably balls. However, the new staff seem to be much nicer.

It's interesting how different peoples experiences can be! I don't think the setting is always the best there but I wouldn't say it was mediocre or poor and they do get a good variety of setters in these days to stop it getting samey.

Regarding angles I think they've got most angles covered in the new bouldering areas - what do you mean by bad angles?

Admittedly I've only visited the new bouldering bit a couple of times, corresponding to to about 8 visits climbing on two different 'sets' so I can't offer any insight into the long term consistency of the problems.

The angles are often too tight to offer setters a bit of creative leeway using volumes and the like. Examples are the boxed in roof-into-barrel feature. Too small and pokey to allow good movement, and you can smear and drop knee your way out of most of it. Similarly, that narrow prow over by the fire escape is a waste of space. As for the roof in the other room, all the problems I climbed on it were terrible. The fact that  two badly made square volumes were stuck to the underside of it at the time probably didn't help.
     

I've been visiting Kendal Wall pretty regularly for the about the last 15 years and it wouldn't make it anywhere near my list of worst walls. However I'd agree with the point above about walls rarely combining great bouldering and routes. Certainly in the case of Kendal it's pretty obvious that the management just don't 'get' bouldering and the criticisms above about the poor use of space and bad setting are frequently heard amongst both regulars and visitors to the bouldering area. Sadly from the climbers point of view there's clearly more money to be made out of groups using the 'Crazy Climb', Via Ferrata(!) or Top roping areas, than from the likes of the users of this forum. This seems to have been particularly bad over the last year when the wall has been developing into more of a tourist attraction than a climbing facility, which has definitely been to the detriment of both the routes and bouldering.

Personally speaking it's just a shame that the excellent Eden Rock is too far away for an evening visit!

[Offwidth]

No this is an immense problem. I have battles with our setters constantly, particularly at the lower end circuits. They struggle to grasp what "absolute beginner" means and cannot seem to understand that smoothly overlapping circuits of varied and increasing difficulty, enable people to progress without utter shutdown or getting bored. The attitude that "V1/V0/VB is beneath me" is going to lose some people their jobs soon...
My favourite quote "If I can do it in my flip flops, it's V1", translates to permanent toilet cleaning duties and removal of setting privileges.

Great stuff and you go and spoil it with 'absolute beginner'. I know plenty pottereing around those grades after decades of lack of interest in improvement or those facing taking it easy after injury or those who have declined to this level as they get older. All customers are important and the easiest circuts are often the busiest.

[Oldmanmatt]

No this is an immense problem. I have battles with our setters constantly, particularly at the lower end circuits. They struggle to grasp what "absolute beginner" means and cannot seem to understand that smoothly overlapping circuits of varied and increasing difficulty, enable people to progress without utter shutdown or getting bored. The attitude that "V1/V0/VB is beneath me" is going to lose some people their jobs soon...
My favourite quote "If I can do it in my flip flops, it's V1", translates to permanent toilet cleaning duties and removal of setting privileges.

Great stuff and you go and spoil it with 'absolute beginner'. I know plenty pottereing around those grades after decades of lack of interest in improvement or those facing taking it easy after injury or those who have declined to this level as they get older. All customers are important and the easiest circuts are often the busiest.

Well, I'd really meant the Vb grade on that point. I have a policy that the first route on the first circuit should be doable in less than three attempts by any random person who comes through the door. Regardless of age, strength and fitness/weight (within obvious limits, but we've had some fairly challenged individuals try). The difficulty should roll smoothly up from there.
I don't believe anyone should be shutdown at their first attempt, or that they should be relegated to "just rainbow it" either.

I'm puntering around again myself, with various injuries (funny though, I know I'm not up to it, but I keep working some of the hardest problems, when no one's looking and regretting it later).




At the moment it's the purple, always set on the first wall on the left as you enter the mats (also the only fully vertical wall in the building).
The red spotties that litter the lower half of the wall are the equivalent for our less than 3 foot tall brigade....

All the Wads warm-up here too...

[dr_botnik]

Don't want to make any nominations, but a good suggestion on circuit bouldering walls is to put in a circuit of highlights at each grade. Saw this at a london wall and it helped me get a feel for the walls grading, and pointed out some of the best problems at each grade. Good for the itinerant punter.

[andyd]

Don't want to make any nominations, but a good suggestion on circuit bouldering walls is to put in a circuit of highlights at each grade. Saw this at a london wall and it helped me get a feel for the walls grading, and pointed out some of the best problems at each grade. Good for the itinerant punter.

Some much needed positivity. Nice one

[davej]

just to continue this positive vibe. Went to BeBoulder Widnes . Great staff really friendly even let us set problems!!