[benno]

I seem to have something in my eye...

That's fucking beautiful.

[SamT]

Nice evening at the Cornice last night rather marred by an out of control dog tearing up and down the crag/river.  Chasing ducks, shaking wet fur on folks etc.  Fricking annoying.
I witnessed at least one person suggest they put it on a lead which they dutifully ignored. In fact I think it was being encouraged to leap in the river to chase sticks.

Owner seemed utterly oblivious to any annoyance darling pooch might have been causing.  Not sure what the status of the river is there (thinking SSSI, crayfish etc etc ), but I'm sure having a dog charge up and down it is not part of the code of conduct.

  

[spidermonkey09]

I sympathise. I bloody love dogs and will always say hello to them at the crag. However that sounds really irritating and the owner a twat.

My current bugbear is barking dogs at the crag. I know its rarely all tranquillity and peace at sport crags but I could really do without some ****ing barking dog while I'm enjoying being outside!

[SamT]

Barking, dropping sloberry sticks/balls on your rope/mat, chasing wildlife, crapping, shaking wet fur on you/ropes, generally jumping up at you... couple that with owners that think the sun shines out of the their backsides and that everyone at the crag will adore them...

Bah fckuing humbug.

[gme]

Climbers really are the least tolerant bunch of people these days.

Its only a dog, chasing a stick into a river and back. Suggest its doing a lot less damage to the valley than the climbers and other humans.

Did you fail to redpoint  your route that day?

[Ally Smith]

I was there too - that was a total twat of a dog.

I can tolerate the tail wagging, friendly nuzzles and occasional excited bark, but letting the hound loose to do as it pleases and chase ducks up and down the river ain't on.

The other dogs there were so much better behaved, except when their owner had opened the mackerel tin and they got a bit greedy!

[SamT]

I know it wasn't just me.

Gavin - I was in quite a tolerant mood actually, if he'd caught me on a bad day, I'd have been having strong words and giving the dog short shrift.

The same guy/dog was at Horseshit a couple of weeks ago, same story.

The owners twattish behavior was exemplified when he bellowed "Fuuuucccckkk Yoouuu" at the top of his voice after failing near the top of clarion call at the end of the evening. 

As I understand it, I think its the Derbyshire Wildlife trust that own the woods/dale, which is a SSSI.  Climbers are tolerated and I think the likes of Kris and the BMC access reps have had long discussions with regards the placing of bolts/unsightly belay chains etc etc.   

Behaviour like this does not do our kind any favours what so ever.

[bigironhorse]

I'm really not a dog person at all but I don't mind dogs at the crag if they're just sat there or even if they come over to say hello. But I've experienced my lunch being eaten and mud walked all over my ropes and pads and it pisses me right off. Not to mention annoying barking. And the way the owners act like you've delivered them the greatest insult when you mention that they could keep it under control. "come away from that horrible man charlie."   

[andy popp]

I grew up with dogs and have always been happy around them. But I was bitten by one in an unprovoked attach at a crag several years ago and it has definitely me more uncomfortable around dogs that are not under a modicum of control.

[Hydraulic Man]

Slightly off topic but the Bellenderitis at the Cornice seems to have grown this year and become contagious.

Not sure when it became the norm to block the path with your gear and rope and expect people to walk round it but have seen this more than once this year. 

Never mind being tolerant but a bit of common sense and courtesy wouldn't go amiss.

[gme]

I know it wasn't just me.

Gavin - I was in quite a tolerant mood actually, if he'd caught me on a bad day, I'd have been having strong words and giving the dog short shrift.

The same guy/dog was at Horseshit a couple of weeks ago, same story.

The owners twattish behavior was exemplified when he bellowed "Fuuuucccckkk Yoouuu" at the top of his voice after failing near the top of clarion call at the end of the evening. 

As I understand it, I think its the Derbyshire Wildlife trust that own the woods/dale, which is a SSSI.  Climbers are tolerated and I think the likes of Kris and the BMC access reps have had long discussions with regards the placing of bolts/unsightly belay chains etc etc.   

Behaviour like this does not do our kind any favours what so ever.

Sounds like the owner is the twat not the dog. Did anyone tell him to sort it out.

I have had dogs all my life so used to them and I like to see dogs running about having fun rather than being tied up and personally dont think its a big deal, mine is rarely on the lead. They are out having there fun whilst we have ours. Its a pain if your food gets nicked but funny if its your mates.

And i really do think there is no comparison to the environmental impact of them chasing a few ducks, catching the odd rabbit, or jumping in the river, to the damage humans do. I have never seen them leaving rubbish anywhere for a start.

[abarro81]

I instinctively hate rowdy and annoying dogs at the crag, in the same wasy as I hate it when people play music at the crag, but I'm not entirely sure why, probably 'cos I'm a grumpy bugger.

[reeve]

Sounds like the owner is the twat not the dog. Did anyone tell him to sort it out.

I have had dogs all my life so used to them and I like to see dogs running about having fun rather than being tied up and personally dont think its a big deal, mine is rarely on the lead. They are out having there fun whilst we have ours. Its a pain if your food gets nicked but funny if its your mates.

And i really do think there is no comparison to the environmental impact of them chasing a few ducks, catching the odd rabbit, or jumping in the river, to the damage humans do. I have never seen them leaving rubbish anywhere for a start.

Personally I'm not a dog kinda guy, but I'm happy to see them at the crag. But I'm really shocked that anyone would think that a dog chasing wildlife down Chee Dale could be acceptable. If nothing else, this could threaten access. I would be surprised if DWT saw it as acceptable.

On a less serious note (unless I felt hangry) if a dog nicked my lunch I'd be mightily unimpressed and demanding the owner's lunch for my own!

[kac]

It was said that the person was asked to put the dog on a lead and he didn't. Clearly its the owner whos the idiot and not the dog but does it really matter. If actions like this did piss off the wildlife trust or anyone else  it's hardly a good defence to say thay we do way more damage climbing is it?

[GazM]

And i really do think there is no comparison to the environmental impact of them chasing a few ducks

At this time of year some ducks are likely to be nesting or have dependent young, so a dog could easily wipe out the next generation.  Disturbance by humans, while unwelcome, isn't going have such a direct affect.

[kc]

https://www.derbyshirewildlifetrust.org.uk/nature-reserves/chee-dale

Something about dogs on this link and on the sign posts at the station.

They obviously don't mind dogs walking on the path unleashed as the reserve manager has an untethered dog but they and the water bailiff have been very vocal with people that let their dogs enter the river.

[gme]

https://www.derbyshirewildlifetrust.org.uk/nature-reserves/chee-dale

Something about dogs on this link and on the sign posts at the station.

They obviously don't mind dogs walking on the path unleashed as the reserve manager has an untethered dog but they and the water bailiff have been very vocal with people that let their dogs enter the river.

Is that not more likely to be linked to spoiling the very expensive, very exclusive fishing?

[gme]

And i really do think there is no comparison to the environmental impact of them chasing a few ducks

At this time of year some ducks are likely to be nesting or have dependent young, so a dog could easily wipe out the next generation.  Disturbance by humans, while unwelcome, isn't going have such a direct affect.

Thats the problem with peoples idea of the environment, its all about the fluffy little critters. If a dog was to catch a duck (that rarely happens) and wipe out a generation the impact is absolutely minimal and balance would be restored in a matter of years. But its very visual.
Humans driving out there. going down the dale, polluting the river via the fields or sewage works (all of Buxtons sewage goes in the river, i wouldn't drink it), the other pollution linked to the production of all the climbing gear we use etc etc. has a million times more effect than anything a dog can do.

And cars are the biggest killer of wildlife in the UK by a long long way.

[reeve]

And i really do think there is no comparison to the environmental impact of them chasing a few ducks

At this time of year some ducks are likely to be nesting or have dependent young, so a dog could easily wipe out the next generation.  Disturbance by humans, while unwelcome, isn't going have such a direct affect.

Thats the problem with peoples idea of the environment, its all about the fluffy little critters. If a dog was to catch a duck (that rarely happens) and wipe out a generation the impact is absolutely minimal and balance would be restored in a matter of years. But its very visual.
Humans driving out there. going down the dale, polluting the river via the fields or sewage works (all of Buxtons sewage goes in the river, i wouldn't drink it), the other pollution linked to the production of all the climbing gear we use etc etc. has a million times more effect than anything a dog can do.

And cars are the biggest killer of wildlife in the UK by a long long way.

Of course the world faces bigger issues than ducks being mauled by a dog at a crag: climate change, war in the Middle East, starvation, grotesque inequality, the various types of pollution you mention. But they are all complex problems which will require complex ways of managing them. If there is a dog which is causing disruption to wildlife at a crag this has a very simple solution: put it on a lead. Nothing else is okay.

[Nutty]

Wiping out a generation of mallards would be minimal impact, but something rarer?

I wouldn't underestimate the environmental impact of dogs - where does the food for these carnivores come from?

I'm not particularly a dog person, but even if I was I can't see how you can argue that letting a dog run loose and pissing off the climbers who were there, potentially compromising access by pissing off the wildlife trust and possibly pissing off the fishing interests as well is absolutely fine.

[kac]

But theres not a lot that we can do about that is there. There is also a serious environmental impact in having a dog but no one is saying that they should be banned. It is just asking that people take responsibility for their dogs so that they dont pose a threat to wildlife, a nuisance to others and as a follow on a threat to access crags. I'ts a pretty simple and reasonable request that really doesn't need a defence does it?

[Monolith]

I wouldn't underestimate the environmental impact of dogs - where does the food for these carnivores come from?

Not such an easy classificatory matter. Dogs can subsist on a vegetarian or vegan diet; one of the world's oldest recorded dogs was a Border Collie that lived until 25: https://v-dog.com/blogs/v-dog-blog/bramble-the-collies-secrets-to-living-to-age-25

 

[highrepute]

I've seen the carbon footprint of a dog described as comparable to car. With a large dog being comparable to a large car (suv) and small dog being comparable to a small car. That was not a vegan dog mind.

[GazM]

GME you're conflating two arguments there. Of course all humans have a bigger global impact than that of a few dogs chomping a few mallard chicks, but this is the Dogs at Crags thread, not the Friends of the Earth thread!

I work on capercaillie conservation in the Highlands and at this time of year we're really sensitive about how people manage their dogs in areas where caper breed. In a small population every chick counts. It's really hard getting people to understand that at some places at some times of year, Fido should be kept under close control.  In Scandinavia they have 'leash laws' to protect ground nesting birds during the breeding season. Its an offence to have your dog running wild and you can be fined, and it's just accepted as the norm.

Also, I'm a dog owner, so know how hard it is to practice what I preach!

[Will Hunt]

polluting the river via the fields or sewage works (all of Buxtons sewage goes in the river, i wouldn't drink it)

Not my patch so I don't know any specific information about the works, but yes, if there is a sewage treatment works upstream then it will discharge treated sewage effluent to the river. I've no idea what limits on ammonia, BOD etc apply to the works but if you wanted to find out you could ask the Environment Agency - it's a matter of public record.

If you're interested you could even check out what water quality is like in the catchment by looking here:
http://environment.data.gov.uk/catchment-planning/WaterBody/GB104028057820

By my reckoning the Wye appears to enjoy remarkably good water quality, particularly in relation to those determinands that you'd associate with discharges of sewage effluent (Ammonia, BOD, Phosphate), all of which pass the requirements of the WFD. The only thing that fails WFD standards in the waterbody is Zinc, which is probably due to old mine workings in the catchment?

But no, you wouldn't drink the water would you? Because it's untreated river water, and thus not fit for human consumption 
Where would you prefer that the treated sewage effluent from Buxton end up? Humans take water from the environment, generally in the uplands; they use it, they clean it; and then they need to put it back, generally in the lowlands where people live. Otherwise there'd be no bloody water left and all the fish would die.