[tomtom]

Am I allowed to say ass? What if the elephant is female, reads this and is offended? Will it forget about it?

Ah bugger, this is complicated.

Bugger is certainly bang out of order. As is C*nt and other offensive words like B0no.

[SpanishJuan]

Is there any wayof replacing the word UKC with a emoticon that plays . Tomtom, wash your mouth out, How dare you use the B**o word

[Snoops]

This forum has always been a breath of fresh air and the thread in question contributes to that. Jeez if we get things in prospective you have the daily star and sun printing titties every day to 10% of the country, let alone all the FHM's and Loaded's.

It might not be a technically PC, but 95% of the time has been non-offensive. If your going to axe it, the only reason is to appease the 2 % of people that actually seem to be bothered, (i.e UKC).

I think you're going to encounter this conflict between preserving the UKB ecosystem and making cash from UKB more often in the future. Perhaps it's best if you decide now what your priorities are? It's your site now and you can do what you want with it. Locking down DFBWGC is clearly the best commercial move, and I don't think anyone would blame you if you went that way. It will be a (tiny) sad moment for me however, and I hope you don't... 

This guy has it right, where are your long term interests? Keeping the forum in its original spirit, or cleaning it and commercialising it.
(PS I'm not having a pop, I'm not the one whose invested and I respect you'd like some income)

But--- I say defo got to keep it.

[rich d]

I say that DFBWGC sums up some of what UKB is about. It's taking the piss, being funny, cruel and not really caring what anyone thinks. My wife doesn't think it's a negative to women, she thinks it's a bit of a piss take and a bit juvenile but nothing more. She also said if she was a climber and wasn't on it she'd be gutted...
Have UKC been moaning about the dead fit blokes that go climbing thread? Probably not - so aren't they being sexist there? as a man I find it offensive that the self proclaimed knights of the internet aren't standing up for my rights as a man.
Didn't UKC post this as a Friday night vid?http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=50551  with the following thread http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=382863 not much evidence there of not objectifying women. I know it causes you guys grief when we call Mick Ryan a **** so I won't, but they should put their own house in order first - before commenting on others. Why don't we all ask them to remove that video and the accompanying thread?
For fucks sake - don't let them sanitise the irreverence of UKB, it's one of the many things I love about the site. 
Next I won't be able to slag Alex Ferguson off on the football threads - in case it offends scum fans.

Richard

[mrjonathanr]

What is this "irony" that you speak of?

The irony that the freedom which enhances the site also has some downsides. I think it's about a tipping point: I feel uncomfortable with a small number of posts because they're pretty schoolboy-lech level and sometimes get criticised within the thread. In the majority of cases that's untrue however and it is acceptable (to me) banter and pics of attractive women without being harassing or chauvinistic ie disrespectful.

I would say that comparisons with whatever else is out there eg Nuts, The Sun are irrelevant. Just because you can find something worse doesn't entitle you to move downwards: the only issue is the desirable direction and standards of UKB.

I represent one viewpoint however. Others may feel differently. If commercial interests dictate the need to pull such a thread - fair enough. Hypocritical moral outrage isn't to my mind a valid reason however.

[Stubbs]

I would say that comparisons with whatever else is out there eg Nuts, The Sun are irrelevant. Just because you can find something worse doesn't entitle you to move downwards: the only issue is the desirable direction and standards of UKB.

Otherwise we mights as well start comparing the forums with 4chan

[Paul B]

I think Stu (as others have noted) summed it up well, it all depends on the direction you wish to take the forum. I'd struggle to see how it could be a commercial viability in its current form but moving it towards that of the other channel will lead to it losing its identity (and possibly core members and not simply because of DFBWGC).

I'd go for the don't touch it option.

Personally I'd go even further: I'd argue that the comments from drunken late nighters should have been left in. In the cold light of morning I'm fairly sure the forum would have kicked into self-policing mode and the offending post would have well and truly been objected to, no doubt, with the posters eating a slice of humble pie, proving the forum works in its current form. The karma systems applies here as well. By applying moderation of any sort you are setting a standard for what is and what isn't acceptable which is surely going to mean moderation becoming more widespread across the forum, is it really necessary? Has self policing failed?

I've overstepped the mark on here more than my fair share of times and every time I think it has been resolved. From an outsiders view I can see how a lot of the comments could be deemed offensive but a lot of banter references back to other threads/events, sometimes even years, this extends to the wall/crag/twitter. Nobody looking in is going to have a clue how to take these comments and on face value they simply don't look good. This is proven in the original post.

Out of the online forums I use I have to say that UKB is probably the most welcoming of them all, many of the others could be summed up as hostile and with a list of rules as long as your arm.

[Doylo]

Screw UKC, they should mind their own business.  There is rarely anything worth reading on their forum (unless of course your interested in queries about waterproof zips and the like). Agree that the outcome of this issue depends on what direction the owners want to take the site.  For me the thread in question sums up the refreshing irreverence of the site which is a major part of its charm. 

[LucyB]

Despite my non-appearance on the thread (apart from once, long ago after a hint the size of a house), I have to say I am not offended by whole thing.

The banter is occasionally amusing, occasionally a tad laddish and now and again veering towards offensive. However, when that has happened I have been impressed by the ability of those posting to police themselves/ each other. I agree that if you do find it on the puerile side, then you can simply not bother looking. It makes it quite clear what to expect from the thread title.

On the plus side, the photos are often quite inspiring, when they are actually dead fit climbing birds rather than pr0n chicks who have put a pair of shoes/ harness/ bikini/ nowt on - but those in themselves have a very slight amusement value.

I think we just ran out of photos of fit blokes/ simply couldn't be arsed for the fellow 'dead fit blokes...' thread. Magpie, we must hold ourselves responsible for this lack of enthusiasm.

Misogynist? I have encountered far worse attitudes towards women outside the climbing world.

So, I reckon that people should be allowed to continue to self-monitor what goes on. The moderators don't have an easy job, but they're doing it pretty well. We also have a collective responsibility to point out/ respond to/ punter what is not acceptable.





 

[fatdoc]

I agree with mrjonathanr, Paul B & Fiend. ( bet that wont come round again often  ???)

leave it alone....

however i haven't invested in this place..
tricky one...

[slackline]

What Stu said.

If DFBirds/BlokesWGC is to be censored then surely the only joking thread will have to be cut too, and many, many other posts/threads.

Thats not to say anarchy should rule, but as PaulB says people get shot down/bought to task/puntered if they make poorly judged (/ ) posts.

[fatdoc]

the game for a laugh thread is probably the best thread here

[magpie]

Out of the online forums I use I have to say that UKB is probably the most welcoming of them all, many of the others could be summed up as hostile and with a list of rules as long as your arm.

Agreed, and I say that as a female, who doesn't climb hard or live in Sheffield, so technically I should really fit in.

I think we just ran out of photos of fit blokes/ simply couldn't be arsed for the fellow 'dead fit blokes...' thread. Magpie, we must hold ourselves responsible for this lack of enthusiasm.

I do feel bad we haven't been keeping up our side. 

[Norton Sharley]

Another vote for what Stu said so eloquently.

Do you also then need to remove other threads where, for example, we discuss bike prOn and recommend certain manufacturers over others just in case one such manufacturer or supplier becomes a potential sponsor in future?

[shark]

Thanks everyone for your replies and votes.

Overall this has demonstrated DFBWGC is loved enough to justify it being left alone. Motion overruled.

I'll lock the Poll now. We'll have some further comment and proposals in a few days.

[Snoops]

Thanks everyone for your replies and votes.

Overall this has demonstrated DFBWGC is loved enough to justify it being left alone. Motion overruled.

I'll lock the Poll now. We'll have some further comment and proposals in a few days.

   Thats democracy in motion for you. Fair play.

[Fiend]

Word, dawgs.

I was going to point out the poll being invalid because it didn't include a pastry / shoe option....but seeing as it went the morally right way anyway....

[Serpico]

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=427227

Countdown to deletion
10... 9... 8...

[Snoops]

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=427227

Countdown to deletion
10... 9... 8...

Thats f**king hilarious. Seems the righteous indignant on cocktalk are happy to oggle the female form and defend its posting. Shame their owners are so hypocritical as to 'snitch' on another site.

[rginns]

Don't see what the issue is, personally.

[Stu Littlefair]

 
 

Thanks everyone for your replies and votes.

Overall this has demonstrated DFBWGC is loved enough to justify it being left alone. Motion overruled.

I'll lock the Poll now. We'll have some further comment and proposals in a few days.

[slackline]

I think we just ran out of photos of fit blokes/ simply couldn't be arsed for the fellow 'dead fit blokes...' thread. Magpie, we must hold ourselves responsible for this lack of enthusiasm.

I do feel bad we haven't been keeping up our side. 

Contact lagers and see if he's willing to license the bridbot^TM algorithm for adaptation to those with a Y-chromosome.

[Wipey Why]

Thanks everyone for your replies and votes.

Overall this has demonstrated DFBWGC is loved enough to justify it being left alone. Motion overruled.

I'll lock the Poll now. We'll have some further comment and proposals in a few days.

  Huzzah!!!

[Sloper]

Anyone else remember the Javelin Fleece adverts from the early 80's you know the one sex sells.  Straight, Bi or Gay we're all interested.

I can appreciate that someone might not appreciate that their boy/girlfriend's picture is posted or comments made but then again, if you want to keep stuff personal don't put it on the web.

I don't spend a lot of time looking at the thread so I don't have a lot of interest but I am always opposed to censorship(t).

[Jaspersharpe]

You're ill for a couple of days and you miss all the fun. 

Great thread, great solidarity, much sense. Fuck Millie Tant, fuck total hypocrisy, fuck faux pc bullshit and fuck disgusting underhand smear campaigns which are purely commercial but which are disguised as something moral.

How low can you go? Makes me think UKB must be doing a lot right for people to get so  concerned. I like it.

Fight the (distinct lack of) power.