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poll: Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing. (Read 66238 times)

shark

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poll: Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 10:17:43 am
UKB has a long running thread called “Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing” (DFBWGC for short)Now in its 3rd incarnation the current thread has over 2,000 post and 200,000 views. Clearly it is popular and for obvious reasons. Typically a post will include a picture of a woman climbing and commentary of various kinds ensues. My personal view was that it’s a harmless juvenile indulgence and refreshing antidote to a politically correct world.

Since acquiring UKB we (Toby and I) have received various missives from UKC demanding we do this or that which we have politely declined. The latest stone lobbed over the fence was CC’ed elsewhere to enlist wider support in the industry to apply pressure on us to make changes they felt were appropriate. Clearly we don’t welcome this sort of interference which stems from historical antagonisms that hopefully we can all move on from. They do their thing – we do ours.

However, amongst other things the email contained an accusation that DFBWGC was misogynist. This struck a chord with an industry professional who felt it was “insulting to women”. Mentally I wrote this off as “you can’t please them all”. However, the following morning at Raven Tor I bumped into UKB regular Joe Le Sausage and his partner Vicki. I chatted about DFBWGC and was surprised that they also both had a negative view. Vicki raised some points that I hadn’t considered before which made me think again :-\. I thought this required further investigation and consequently Toby and I canvassed further opinion by email asking the following: 

Which of the following views do you have, broadly speaking, on the DFBWGC thread:
1.    It’s misogynist – I’d like to see it removed
2.     It’s offensive – I’d like to see it removed
3.     It’s laddish – I can live with it
4.     It’s a bit pathetic – I can live with it
5.     It’s a bit of fun – I like it
6.     It’s a celebration of female climbers – I like it

Here’s the feedback:

Vicki Robinson  (author of Everyday Masculinities and Extreme Sport: Male Identity and Rock Climbing)
'My view is that overall, the thread goes beyond being 'just a bit of fun' (though some of the entries could, arguably, be seen as that). I don't think it really celebrates women climbers, apart from their looks that is. Not too many women in there who aren't 'traditionally' attractive, even if they do climb E9 I noted!

I think misogynist is a trifle strong, but I can see how some women climbers (and some men) could well be offended by sporting women being so trivialised. I think the entries vary from having a laugh and making (crap) jokes -(which actually is more what the thread is about -men showing off to
each other and not  really about women climbers..)- and then some posters crossing a line which goes from taking the piss, to being sexist, and therefore offensive to some.
 
If I was a woman climber who used the site, it would piss me off it was there. There seems to me two options, zap it as some posts are offensive, not to say repetitive, tedious and  humourless or start a thread on male climbers to show that instead of being so pathetic they should be out on the grit more.."
 
Katherine Schirrmacher
 This is a tricky subject. I am well aware that all this started out as a laddish down the pub type of thing. But I’m also aware this thread is ongoing for a number of years, which to my mind means there’s something more to it.  Believe me women would not spend this long on this sort of subject.  Of course we discuss things like this on a superficial level but then let it go after an hour down the pub. If it’s just a laddish discussion I’m really not that bothered but I am when it goes further commenting on age, how over muscular they are (meaning this may not be attractive even though it’s necessary to climb well) or thinness as these issues are more worrying (and this thread does touch on this kind of thing).
To be honest I’ve been shouted down about these kind of issues before so I’m loathed to get involved.  This is a form of sexism in itself where a minority group (in this case women) aren’t able to fully express their thoughts and I’ve learnt on certain subjects like this just to let it go over my head.......This kind of thread certainly gives the impression that it’s a male dominated site.  There are other threads on there that just generally give the impression that it’s not a place where lots of female climbers input their views.  The site doesn’t appeal to me at all and generally there aren’t many female posters.

Other responses:

Respondent 1: “After consultation with the women in the office we'd probably go for a 3/4 i.e. not mad about it but can live with it. Kind of prefer it when the women are actually climbing - but guess you can't police each photo!”

Respondent 2: “That'll be a 3 from me.  Don't think it's misogynistic at all.  Was all prepared to get irritated when I looked at the thread but it didn't bother me at all (maybe I've not seen it all!).  Would be fairly surprised if many female climbers would have a problem with it but there's bound to be a few....and then a second email....Was just thinking a bit more about the thread and had a look at a few more pages.  Guess I'd go for a 3/4.  It's the comments that could be a problem.  Was thinking how I'd feel if there were pictures and comments of myself or a close friend, and I would probably be pretty upset if I'm honest!  Still, doesn't mean I think the thread should be pulled.  Guess I just accept that men are men”

Respondent 3: “Hmmm. Well it's not pr0n, is it? The photos seem to be mostly reprints of existing photos. Though I'm not familiar with the majority of the women, I'm guessing they are pro's?

 “I found some of the exchanges funny - seems like there's a guy willing to defend/find something appealing about each of the women. Plus there's quite a bit of "inside" banter/giving shit between the posters which is very common on any forum.

Otherwise, it's just juvenile and stupid - probably like the posters themselves. As long as the posts were in good fun, not blatantly lewd/crass or inappropriate such as posting photos of 13 year olds, then I could live with it. My feeling is that men will always find a way to ogle and objectify women especially in a rather anonymous format such as an online forum. So instead of fighting it, set up a system that allows it to have a wink-wink, nudge-nudge, bathroom humour existence.

Would it be possible to have a rating scale that other posters could flag posts as misogynistic, obnoxious, etc thereby publicly shaming the poster and/or blocking them from posting again? I think it could work to let the posters self-police. My guess is that there are a certain number of lurkers who are pretty decent human beings and who would quietly report a poster if crotch shots of 13 year olds started appearing. A lot of forums have a disclaimer that lets posters know that they will be banned or reported for a variety of reasons, although I don't know what "authority" you - the owner - would report them to. My guess is that the egregious offenders will just set up another fictitious profile and keep posting. I don't know how you solve for that.

I didn't quite understand the rating criteria being used, possibly because the british slang was not familiar to me. But if a photo of me appeared I guess I wouldn't care so much because I'd have the opportunity to flame or respond to any comments. I find the possibility of me appearing on such a forum quite remote since it would mean that either a friend/acquaintance posted the photo or some pathetic dude surreptitiously took a photo and posted it. If said friend posted the photo, they would have to deal with me in person, if a stranger posted the photo then they would have to deal with me and all my friends. It's a no-win situation for the poor poster. I think that most of my female friends would feel the same way. Of course there's a certain % of women (and men) who will be incredibly offended by this kind of forum but people are offended by anything. You could probably have a forum posting pictures of cute baby kittens at climbing crags and someone out there will be offended”.

Respondent 4: “I’d like to see it removed] and I would be horrified if I appeared on it. I wonder if those girls who appeared on the thread gave consent....because for me, It feels like harassment”.

Respondent 5: “As far as the thread (which I have seen before and have read several pages)....I'd opt for 6 It doesn't bother me. I could see myself posting to a similar thread but with dead fit "men".....If I appeared on it, I would be indifferent. I'd probably read it amusingly or check it out and not really read anymore”.

Respondent 6: “for me it was both 3). it's laddish, but i can live with it and 4). it's a bit pathetic, but i can live with it. I don't think i would appear on it, if i did, i would not be too thrilled! i wouldn't be horrified but i would be more flattered if i was on there because i climbed something well and looked great too! It was more the comments that were a little lame yes? with that said, if the comments stay relatively clean then i don't see the harm of it, i can see it being pretty popular amongst men. Its not something i would go back and visit though, but maybe its because i prefer scantily clad men ;).”.

Clearly the views are divergent. However, none of the above felt it was misogynist but only one went option 6 i.e. It’s a celebration of female climbers – I like it. However, if all the comments that were made on the DFBWGC thread were left on or certain discussions were allowed to get out of hand the view would almost certainly be very different. From a moderating point of view it is perplexing on when to draw the line when the line is so blurred. Moderation is light at UKB and if in doubt we generally leave posts in. Lest you think I am being overly precious here, a couple of recent comments (late night and no doubt alcohol fuelled) that have clearly overstepped and been removed are as follows: “She won't be as annoying when she's sucking on my cock!” and “Let's face it, she might be a daft ambitious hillwalker, but you'd still ram her full of spunk until she started sweating it out”

So whither DFBWGC ? :-\ 

On the evidence of responses it is not, as UKC claim, misogynist and so overall does not breach our current Moderating policy such as it is. However, it is troublesome for us from a commercial and individual post moderation perspective. On the other hand it is an institution on UKB - but then again as an institution it gives the (we believe false) perception of an engrained sexism which undermines and trivialises female climbers.

Conclusion

DFBWGC has been and no doubt will continue to cause problems for us with respect to moderating specific posts and by putting off some potential sponsors particularly when the competition makes it their business to draw specific attention to it and characterise UKB as encouraging misogyny. For these reasons I propose giving DFBWGC an honourable burial by locking the topic and moving it to the shit heap

Anyone care to oppose the motion? Comments and votes please...

P.S. Thanks to everyone who responded to our questionnaire and provided views - especially Vicki Robinson and Katherine Schirrmacher.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 03:02:19 pm by thesiger, Reason: changed title name »

Johnny Brown

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#1 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 10:38:03 am
Quote
have received various missives from UKC demanding we do this or that which we have politely declined. The latest stone lobbed over the fence was CC’ed elsewhere to enlist wider support in the industry to apply pressure on us to make changes they felt were appropriate.

I find this rather more intriguing than the question of DFB. What has anything on here got to do with them? Other than direct slander obviously.

Quote
particularly when the competition makes it their business to draw specific attention to it and characterise UKB as encouraging misogyny

Pretty sad. You would think their domination of the market would put them above such things. I know and like them all as individuals but grow the fuck up.

shark

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#2 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 10:44:17 am
I completely agree with everything you say but collectively it would be better all round not to get wound up by it (hard I know and I was) and keep this topic on DFBWGC.

nik at work

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#3 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 10:51:33 am
It seems to be the comments that are causing the problem rather than the pictures, so making it a thread you could only post images in and no text (and as such would be purely objectifying the women) would be fine?? Hmmm...

I'd agree that the popularity of the thread does give the impression that the site is male dominated, but then it is isn't it?

Seems like a nothing problem to me but if it's easier to get rid of it than keep it then so be it. Seems some people maybe have a bit too much time on there hands (both thread critics and contributors I imagine).

Didn't Magpie have a Dead Fit Blokes Who Are Called Chris And Who's Surnames Begin With S H A And End With R M A And Who Go Climbing thread thus maintaining sexual equality or something...

Serpico

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#4 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 10:58:29 am


Since acquiring UKB we (Toby and I) have received various missives from UKC demanding we do this or that which we have politely declined. The latest stone lobbed over the fence was CC’ed elsewhere to enlist wider support in the industry to apply pressure on us to make changes they felt were appropriate.


I know you want to keep this about DFBWGC but people should be able to comment on this.
UKC's actions are utterly pathetic, and as I'm also a registered user on that site I'd like to know what else they've been up to so I can decide whether that's a site I want to be associated with.

slackline

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#5 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 11:16:22 am
Well UKC have over the years hosted a number of banners with "Dead fit birds who go/are climbing" as part of the advertising to encourage people to click through, so they should perhaps think about the glass house they inhabit (In fact at present they have a banner for Montane on their site that objectifies men by having a bloke in his pants with a climbing harness/rope/helmet.  Thats just not on!).  Besides which why the fuck they think they have the right to take anyone else to task over how they run their website beggars belief.  If they wanted control over the domain ukbouldering.com then they should have made Bubba an offer (although I can guess what the response would have be). 

The fact is though, whether right or wrong (and I generally think its wrong) the use of sex to sell within the climbing industry is as rife as anywhere else.   A number of recent pictures to the thread were from the archives of Rock and Ice, some people take "artistic nudes" and make calendars out of them that they sell for a nice profit.

Providing all "media" agree to not use images of "pretty" women/men climbing, which would be fair and even handed, then I don't see why UKB should be singled out.

If the thread as it stands were removed people could (and may well) continue to post pictures except in a new thread for each set of pictures, which in turn would require heavy moderation.

As Nik says there is the threads anotnym (see here and more recently here).

Unfortunately without heavy moderation I don't think you can restrict a thread to only pictures and no comments.

As to people not liking the thread, no one forces anyone reading the site to click on and read/view the thread, all have fairly honest and representative thread titles allowing screening.  There are some that I don't bother with regularly because they're of no interest to me, e.g. Football and most of the cycling threads.  Doesn't mean I can't enjoy the rest of the content on the site.


SA Chris

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#6 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 11:16:59 am
What Serpico said. Meddling like that is nothing short of tragic.

Johnny Brown

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#7 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 11:19:03 am
The Dead fit blokes thread managed 38 pages; perhaps the overlords should pay Magpie to keep it updated to even out the balance?

Quote
Can we get an ass shot on that one? I like him...

Or will 'this sort of thing' have to go too? I'm not sure anyone who is offended by it would get on too well with the rest of the site.

Moderation will have to increase with traffic; I don't envy what they have to do at UKC. But I'd stick to individuals not overall content.

Grubes

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#8 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 11:25:28 am
Since acquiring UKB we (Toby and I) have received various missives from UKC demanding we do this or that which we have politely declined. The latest stone lobbed over the fence was CC’ed elsewhere to enlist wider support in the industry to apply pressure on us to make changes they felt were appropriate.
I know you say you want to keep this as a talk about DFBWGC, but surely them asking you to change your site to others in the industry (potential sponsers?) a form of slander?

On DFBWGC if you are still going to get the comments and pictures appearing in different thread. i.e.
significant repeats XXX repeats XXX route.
AN Other replys nice one well done. shes fit as well

Its your site to run as you see fit not for external influences to control imo. I like the thread. But if its going to cause you problems close it. Also isn't there a DFMen thread somewhere?

slackline

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#9 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 11:36:55 am
Since acquiring UKB we (Toby and I) have received various missives from UKC demanding we do this or that which we have politely declined. The latest stone lobbed over the fence was CC’ed elsewhere to enlist wider support in the industry to apply pressure on us to make changes they felt were appropriate.
I know you say you want to keep this as a talk about DFBWGC, but surely them asking you to change your site to others in the industry (potential sponsers?) a form of slander?

Define : slander so not really, I'd call it nosey at best, an attempt at bullying at worse.

If the birds thread is to be ditched, then the blokes thread should too ( for equality of the sexes and all that jazz  :wank:).
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 11:43:49 am by slack---line »

chris_j_s

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#10 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 11:40:39 am
I know you want to keep this about DFBWGC but people should be able to comment on this.
UKC's actions are utterly pathetic, and as I'm also a registered user on that site I'd like to know what else they've been up to so I can decide whether that's a site I want to be associated with.

 :agree:

I suddenly have a lot more sympathy for Jens Larssen (which is something I thought I'd never say!). I bet he gets a lot of spam from a UKC representative that no one ever knows about too.

Regarding DFBWGC I think it's laddish but a bit of harmless fun really. If it has to go I wouldn't be that fussed but I agree with Grubes, it must be your decision rather than one forced upon you by some other site with zero stake in UKB. It's going to be difficult to drop it without giving UKC the satisfaction of having wielded their influence over you IMO.

tomtom

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#11 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 11:59:44 am
An interesting post - and set of questions.

My perspective....
I stopped posting on DFBWGC* after getting a punter point - and a DM from another poster about one of my posts (look up my punter point history if you want to find out what - I've kind of forgotten..). This made me have a long(ish) look at what I had done and I thought that I would stop posting there if it were causing people/persons offence. It had not occured to me that what I had thought was quite innocent/daft to post may have caused offence and when that was pointed out I stopped. I've not posted on that thread since - maybe thats a bit drastic, but a simple rule to myself etc...

So I think that maybe the best way forward here is....

1. Move the DFBWGC to the log pile - but make it postable/editable as such (isnt that what happens?) so its pretty clear that the thread is in the smuttier/dafter/grimmer end of the thread spectrum. The NSFW thread is far worse in places IMHO.... Where it is at the moment in shooting the shit makes it maybe a bit too obvious... bury it down a layer or two so its still there but not so up front...

2. Let it continue to be self regulated - but that also means we (as a group) need to be willing to chastise/punter people when they're stepping out of line...

3. Moderation - not really sure its needed any more than it is.. there is next to no moderation here (which is why it is ace) but occasionally I've seen the odd thread/message get zapped when its clearly out of order.. lets just keep it at the level it is now? I dont know the nitty gritty, but are there a few members who have zapping rights - so there is a uber-low level of moderation already?


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#12 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 12:00:45 pm
I totally oppose the motion, it's a classic thread.

So we appreciate some women's looks?? HELLO?? Each gender finds the other gender visually attractive, it's perfectly bloody normal.

Consider this: what proportion of people posting on the thread have a female partner they love and respect, and female friends they also like and respect as quality human beings?? Hell even Andi_e has a gf (or had one). Look at the amount of devoted husbands and loving dads on the thread FFS...

Comments, fair enough, some of them go too far, I've been moderated once or twice with good reason, I accept that and am more careful with what I post. I think people are getting the message.




« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 05:38:44 pm by thesiger, Reason: YHM »

Andy B

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#13 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 12:02:25 pm
I have no particular interest in the thread, and wouldn't care if it is cut, but personally think that the light moderation and "self policing " of these forums is one of it's strongest points, and cutting threads like this would be a move away from this. Particularly when there are, as has been pointed out, equivalent threads on men.

Another consideration from a business perspective is that obviously the sexist content could potentially put off sponsors, but when DFB II and III are the second and third most visited threads, would cutting them reduce traffic on the forums in any significant way?

Drew

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#14 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 12:15:36 pm
I'm in two mind. I can see how it can be a ball-ache for the powers that be (especially when certain individuals get a little pissed and forget normal decency  :-[ ), so cutting it would save some time, effort, and possible backlash to moderation, however I think it would be a shame to get rid of it totally, when the majority of the Respondents seemed fairly non-plussed by it. I would be inclined to go for a slightly more moderated approach, to reduce any sexism, but to generally keep it as is.

If it goes, I think the pics would probably just end up in Quality Climbing Pics anyway.

I'm also inclined to agree, that what happens on this site, is nothing to do with anyone else.

GCW

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#15 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 12:26:13 pm
I too wonder why UKC feel the need to try to bully UKB.  I also find it ironic that UKC currently have an advert showing a lady's nipple (albeit partially covered in mud).  But from my encounters, I would expect nothing other than an overbearing attitude.

As far as DFBWGC is concerned, I don't tend to look at it.  I can't see it can be friticised for sexism as a DFBWGC thread already exists, as already pointed out.

Next comes exploitation.  Since all the photos (to my knowledge) are already on the web, and are simply embedded, they are already in the public domain.  The thread simple accrues thephotos into one resource.  Unless people take candid photos and post them, I can't see how UKB can be said to exploit people- consent to have pictures posted isn't an issue.

Misogyny (from the Greek) is a hatred of women.  I can't see how the thread fits that tag.  It doesn't even fit with male chauvinism.

In my opinion, as far as images go, the thread doesn't breach any rules.


Do we come to the comments- I would agree that these have been unacceptable in the past.  This, to my mind, is where the thread falls down.  Without the comments it could be argued to be a celebration of the female climber.


So what to do?  Suppressing comments seems the most logical, but also quite labour intensive, plan.  However, if it's causing a lot of hassle I can't see UKC letting it go.  Add to the the reducing number of new photos why not just lock the thread?  Let it die in it's prime rather than dragging on. 

Then comes the question of whether to delete the old threads.  If this is done, you'd have to delete all the threads, including DFBWGC etc etc etc.  Maybe lock them with an addednote that UKB has matured under new management?  (yeah, right?)

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#16 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 12:30:14 pm
Well since I whack off twice daily over said thread I'd be rather gutted to see its demise.

This is crazy.  I worry for people who find the DFBWGC thread offensive considering how much total badness there is out there on the internet, media and in people generally.  DFBWGC is way less offensive even than the likes of FHM, Zoo, Nuts etc. (not that I have subscriptions).  Get a grip folks.

(sorry if this post's 'unhelpful', just trying to inject some sanity)

Johnny Brown

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#17 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 12:32:24 pm
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DFBWGC is way less offensive even than the likes of FHM, Zoo, Nuts etc

And France.

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#18 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 12:34:08 pm
The Dead fit blokes thread managed 38 pages; perhaps the overlords should pay Magpie to keep it updated to even out the balance?
I am totally up for this, for the good of the board, obviously.  ;)

I don't see the issue with the DFBWGC thread, I would imagine most of it's opposers are just using it as an excuse to get their knickers in a twist or cause bother about something.  Yes, some of the comments are not wholly appropriate (but those are generally removed pretty fast) and I can see why they might make people uncomfortable, specifically if you are the one being discussed in less than favourable terms but generally it's just a bit laddish and fairly harmless.

However, it's hardly of great benefit to the site as a whole, and there is a constant struggle for new material anyway, so if it's causing problems for you guys then chuck it, I'm fairly sure the majority of posters are capable of finding their own perving material should the need arise.

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#19 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 12:36:23 pm
I'd be happy to see it go to be honest (not saying I don't look at it, and I think I've posted in the past).  I think it is a somewhat embarrassing part of an otherwise amazing forum.  Talking to a few people who hadn't been to UKB before they had been directed here to look at DFB (or in a couple of cases to look at 2000.Dave spitting his dummy out), and even though this obviously promotes site traffic, I guess there must be consideration of what is good and bad traffic?

I think taking the POV of the climber in question, especially if a picture has been linked from their own website so they know where the traffic is coming from, is a good start.  I would be uncomfortable if pics were posted of any of my friends followed by some of the remarks in that thread.

It's a real shame that this has been addressed via comments from UKC.  I think it would perhaps have been better to keep these two problems separate (i.e started this thread without mentioning that the feedback had come via UKC). Obviously the mention of the other site gets people's hackles up, and they obviously see you as a threat (which is brilliant), but their involvement does somewhat obfuscate the issue regarding whether the threads should stay or go...

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#20 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 12:37:59 pm
If the threads (male & female) were locked the traffic would drift to other threads and these too would have to be moderated, as would videos of bouldering comps etc. etc. etc.

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#21 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 12:39:54 pm
Sorry, some of my DFBWGC in my last post refer to the Blokes thread.  Blame the phone.

Slacker, what you say is likely true.  However, having the alleged sexism/ misogynism/ pervibg spread pug rather than in a specific thread would doubtless reduce the criticism.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 12:45:11 pm by GCW »

stevej

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#22 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 12:44:43 pm
If the threads (male & female) were locked the traffic would drift to other threads and these too would have to be moderated, as would videos of bouldering comps etc. etc. etc.

But it would stem the somewhat creepy facebook stalking, hotlink embarrassment and people's first experiences of UKB being DFBWGC...

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#23 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 12:45:38 pm
no one forces anyone reading the site to click on and read/view the thread, all have fairly honest and representative thread titles allowing screening.  There are some that I don't bother with regularly because they're of no interest to me, e.g. Football and most of the cycling threads.  Doesn't mean I can't enjoy the rest of the content on the site.

 :agree:

1. Move the DFBWGC to the log pile - but make it postable/editable as such (isn't that what happens?) so its pretty clear that the thread is in the smuttier/dafter/grimmer end of the thread spectrum. The NSFW thread is far worse in places IMHO.... Where it is at the moment in shooting the shit makes it maybe a bit too obvious... bury it down a layer or two so its still there but not so up front...

2. Let it continue to be self regulated - but that also means we (as a group) need to be willing to chastise/punter people when they're stepping out of line...

As a regular poster on DFBWGC I would argue that is it generally self regulated pretty well. If someone posts something out of line they are usually shouted down with relative speed.

In addition I agree with tomtom when he says that there are plenty of other threads with lots worse on them.

I'm of the opinion that if you do move it too the log pile it is likely that posts will become worse as it is visited with less frequency and therefore self regulated less.

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#24 Re: Review - Dead Fit Birds Who Go Climbing.
September 28, 2010, 12:54:16 pm
If the threads (male & female) were locked the traffic would drift to other threads and these too would have to be moderated, as would videos of bouldering comps etc. etc. etc.

But it would stem the somewhat creepy facebook stalking, hotlink embarrassment and people's first experiences of UKB being DFBWGC...

Facebook stalking goes on anyway, I don't see how this thread promotes it beyond new names appearing in one thread, and as GCW points out, these pictures are out on t'internet anyway, so could be easily found if the intent is there.

Don't know what the hotlink embarrasment is?  I've written a fairly useful guide to posting pictures.

If people's first experiences of UKB are the DF[Birds/Blokes]WGC threads they were probably looking for that sort of content anyway!

Perhaps those pressurising UKB owners should also contact Flickr over the Climbing Girls Group.

 

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