[JamesD]

Besides if you want a really awesome stimulant stack, everyone knows its all about the choline/caffeine/ALCAR/Rhodiola Rosea homebrew shizzle....chew some nicotine gum shortly afterwards, and fly up those problems, literally

Ha. A double espresso or two gets me to the fine line of flying up the problem / being too jittery to climb!

Oh wow, there is so much cooler stuff out there than caffeine, caffeine is such an unrefined stimulant, taking caffeine on its own is kind of like using a sledgehammer to hit a tiny nail into the wall.
The above gives you hardcore energy but the ability to focus, instead of being over run with jittery nervousness you get from too much caffeine; You know that incredible tunnel vision like focus, where you can almost block out the whole world and everything around you and see nothing but the task ahead.....that kind of focus, for instance something like this:

http://www.myprotein.co.uk/capsules-tablets-softgels/health-and-well-being/zoned/

with some caffeine and/or nicotine gum depending on how mental you are feeling, can give you such an insane boost its awesome, not something I have used for a while though lol, need to get my daily caffeine consumption under control first!

[Paul B]

Last year some time I got a bit bored with climbing and quite psyched for weights. I cleaned up my diet, dropped alcohol and got all SCIENTIFIC with my diet, supplements etc and the change in body composition was huge. I only wish I'd taken some before/after pics.

The thing with what you say Nik is that some people don't want to have to get rid of their bad habits/diet and miss the meaning of 'supplement' all together. The same people often argue that whats in Myprotein and Maximuscle products is of differing quality even when shown (independant) lab tests that prove otherwise. 

[Paul B]

with some caffeine and/or nicotine gum depending on how mental you are feeling, can give you such an insane boost its awesome, not something I have used for a while though lol, need to get my daily caffeine consumption under control first!

I wanted to try and feed dobbin some of myproteins pulse supplement but haven't as of yet managed. When I do = 

[JamesD]

Last year some time I got a bit bored with climbing and quite psyched for weights. I cleaned up my diet, dropped alcohol and got all SCIENTIFIC with my diet, supplements etc and the change in body composition was huge. I only wish I'd taken some before/after pics.

The thing with what you say Nik is that some people don't want to have to get rid of their bad habits/diet and miss the meaning of 'supplement' all together. The same people often argue that whats in Myprotein and Maximuscle products is of differing quality even when shown (independant) lab tests that prove otherwise. 

Likewise Paul, I did the same, cleaning up your lifestyle, good training, good diet, good supplement regime can make you feel like super man. Oh yeah....I know those guys, the ones that are happy to pay double the price for the same thing from Maximuscle, always found that amusing 

[Adam Lincoln]

with some caffeine and/or nicotine gum depending on how mental you are feeling, can give you such an insane boost its awesome, not something I have used for a while though lol, need to get my daily caffeine consumption under control first!

I wanted to try and feed dobbin some of myproteins pulse supplement but haven't as of yet managed. When I do = 

Was looking at this the other day. Do you rate it Paul? http://www.myprotein.co.uk/formulas/mp-formulas/pulse-%28800g%29/
Be keen to hear your thoughts.

[nik at work]

There's some mad badgers out there Paul, and no mistake.

[Paul B]

I didn't use it adam. The green tea extract was enough to make me feel a bit jittery already.

I did rate the sesamin (they rarely seemed to be stocked up though) but be warned burps with this aren't nice. Nor are they nice with thermobol; re-occurring cayenne pepper anybody?

[JamesD]

with some caffeine and/or nicotine gum depending on how mental you are feeling, can give you such an insane boost its awesome, not something I have used for a while though lol, need to get my daily caffeine consumption under control first!

I wanted to try and feed dobbin some of myproteins pulse supplement but haven't as of yet managed. When I do = 

Haha, good blend, but can't say I am a fan of chocamine, always seems to give me a headache after a few weeks usage, which then goes as soon as I stop using the chocamine containing supplement, weird eh.

The best or should I say "scariest" stimulant I tried, was a double dose of Get diesel's Ready4war alongside my normal dose of his creatine supplement Nos Ether, I literally blasted through my normal workout in half the usual time, pretty much had zero rest between sets, and then woke up the next morning with such bad DOMS it hurt to move for the whole day, but WHAT A WORKOUT!

I really like Controlled labs Purple wraath for improving muscular endurance, and strength endurance, plus the EAA's massively help recovery, I started going for large doses of EAA's to replace what I would get from my PWO protein shake, and then cut out protein shakes whilst doing this a while back, and my results were awesome!
A lot more expensive than shakes, but you'll see why if you do it, the results speak for themselves

[dobbin]

Energy pills you say? Hmmm. My interest is piqued.

Folog made me make the switch onto MyProtein (think we bought Hercules?) recently when he was ordering a job lot, and its not as ming as I thought it would be taste wise and I think i have lost a bit of weight since changing. Although, this could be the restriction of my diet down to just three ham hocks a day.

I like the idea of the non jittery energy booster tablets - they sound dynamite. Often I leave the orifice to go to the crag with no chance to make a flagon of coffee first, so am left quaffing over-caffeinated sugary drink company, and whilst derived from Chuck Norris piss, its also full of sugar and probably going to give me an insulin spike and subsequent trough. Certainly I feel sluggish after over-caffeinated sugary drink company where I dont on coffee.

I used to have some creatine serum stuff. Was convinced it worked, but got more consistent results (and cheaper) out of starbucks!

[JamesD]

Energy pills you say? Hmmm. My interest is piqued.

Folog made me make the switch onto MyProtein (think we bought Hercules?) recently when he was ordering a job lot, and its not as ming as I thought it would be taste wise and I think i have lost a bit of weight since changing. Although, this could be the restriction of my diet down to just three ham hocks a day.

I like the idea of the non jittery energy booster tablets - they sound dynamite. Often I leave the orifice to go to the crag with no chance to make a flagon of coffee first, so am left quaffing over-caffeinated sugary drink company, and whilst derived from Chuck Norris piss, its also full of sugar and probably going to give me an insulin spike and subsequent trough. Certainly I feel sluggish after over-caffeinated sugary drink company where I dont on coffee.

I used to have some creatine serum stuff. Was convinced it worked, but got more consistent results (and cheaper) out of starbucks!

Creatine serum, the con of the century!

Get yourself some proper creatine, if you want an amazing stimulant free supplement stack, I highly recommend controlled labs, one of my favourite companies,
1-2 months on this stuff should give you a nice jump up:

http://www.cheapuksupplements.com/shop/product.php/359/green_magnitude

http://www.cheapuksupplements.com/shop/product.php/358/purple_wraath

and if you want a decent post workout shake, their one is brilliant ( in terms of indgredient profile, taste is ok)

http://www.cheapuksupplements.com/shop/product.php/697/golden_finish

Plus you gotta love the name, sounds like some deviant pr0n film 

[SA Chris]

tasty stimulant = ginger chews!

[Rocksteady]

That Purple Wraath stuff sounds so good I wonder how I can function without it?!

Re: weight loss, I think trying to draw parallels with other sports such as running or even gymnastics are not necessarily helpful. As we all know, a key limiter in climbing is finger strength. As fingers are so small and their strength is largely based on tendons/ligaments and not muscles, weight loss makes a much bigger impact than any sport/exercise where the muscles/cardiovascular system is the primary driver.

Obviously taking yourself down to absolute waif levels isn't great for longterm health and may ruin your energy levels/strength completely, and make you more prone to injury. But getting into single digit body fat while keeping your exercise levels high is not going to be impossible and probably will be really beneficial. I have no probs with the appliance of SCIENCE from supplements, but generally can't be bothered with the mixing etc - give me a Yazoo chocolate milk (2 for 1 at Tesco) as a post-climbing nutrient any day.

I personally don't find upper body power-weight ratio helps me that much in the face of weak/injury-prone fingers, weak core and dodgy technique! When I was into martial arts at a 10% fat 70kg I could bench 80kg for reps and 110kg one rep max, and can pretty much always do a one-arm chin up with either arm at any weight between 70 and 75kgs, but I'm still not a strong climber because my fingers seem to be chronically weak compared to most people's and I can't easily seem to maintain a solid core from toes to finger tips.

Rambling a bit...in conclusion, eat what you want, drink what you want, supplement what you want, train how you want, climb what you want.
But if you want to climb hard, probs getting below 10% body fat (as a guy) isn't going to hurt, and you can probs maintain muscle strength enough for it to make a difference where it counts - in your fingers.

[slackline]

Get yourself some proper creatine, if you want an amazing stimulant free supplement stack, I highly recommend controlled labs, one of my favourite companies,

  You eat dogs!  Watch out, Magpie will have you for that. 

[Fiend]

I wanted to try and feed dobbin some of myprotein... ...When I do = 

Dear god, he's a married man and all!

[JamesD]

Get yourself some proper creatine, if you want an amazing stimulant free supplement stack, I highly recommend controlled labs, one of my favourite companies,

  You eat dogs!  Watch out, Magpie will have you for that. 

Nooooooooooo I love dogs, and cats.....is that strange?

I don't know many people that really like both, my girlfriend does, but she owns a cat and not a dog....to be fair I think I would love a dog if I could look after it properly, but the hours we both do would make it impossible

[Carnage]

I like to use the odd protein shake and find them beneficial but why do they make me fart so badly?  I mean *really* badly

[Falling Down]

I like to use the odd protein shake and find them beneficial but why do they make me fart so badly?  I mean *really* badly

made of eggs?

[Carnage]

Nah - I'm on the whey stuff.

Maybe its just me - must be my digestion process.   

I just feel sorry for the missus...

[dobbin]

I remember years ago Ned's brother bought him a litre carton of egg whites. Fucking hell. Even recalling that this happened has turned my stomach.

[JamesD]

Nah - I'm on the whey stuff.

Maybe its just me - must be my digestion process.   

I just feel sorry for the missus...

You need to load yourself up with water immediately before and right after, most people don't drink nearly enough water when they are training, and since whey passes through your stomach very quickly you need to make sure you get the water in there too.
I found this helped me anyway, besides protein farts are no where near as bad as herbal burps, or fish oil cap burp  those are the worst!

[Lund]

I like to use the odd protein shake and find them beneficial but why do they make me fart so badly?  I mean *really* badly

Maybe you're lactose intolerant?  Some of the shakes esp. with whey concentrates contain a fair bit of lactose.  There are some with almost none in.  You could try that instead...

[Jeff25]

Nooooooooooo I love dogs, and cats.....is that strange?

I don't know many people that really like both, my girlfriend does, but she owns a cat and not a dog....to be fair I think I would love a dog if I could look after it properly, but the hours we both do would make it impossible
[/quote]

think its time for this thread to hit the log pile. no offence like 

thanks to all who answered the question. Sounds like single digit body fat is not an unhelathy target. Ill try and do a slow and steady weight loss from my current 14% level and see how it goes.

with regard to diet, ill be cutting out on unnecessary crap - as per James and other recomendation and see if this is enough. ill try a tin of tuna rather than protein shakes etc.

[The Sausage]

er, tuna is not a particularly sustainable option. Waitrose tinned Makarel is Marine Steward's Council certified, it's 68p a tin, full of Omega3, and much tastier than tinned tuna, which is basically cat food. They also do line caught tinned cornish pilchards and sardines, both of which are great.

Eat well, and support sustainable british fishing industry at the same time. That's 2 birds, 1 stone...

[lagerstarfish]

The way you gush on about it, Sausage, one would think that Waitrose are the John Lewis of the food world or something.

[JamesD]

Funny you should say that.....


http://www.johnlewispartnership.co.uk/