[i.munro]

you are using it to mean that at the minimum you feel British climbers are scum, but that there are others nationalities who may well fall into the "scummy" category.  There is no implicit or explicit exemption of non-British climbers at all in this sentence.  

Now this may not have been the feeling you wished to convey,

Thankyou, that was exactly the clarification I wished to make as everyone then jumped from there to include
"but other nationalities are wonderful" or "that specifically means me & I can show that I'm not" neither of which I meant or wrote.

[slackline]

you are using it to mean that at the minimum you feel British climbers are scum, but that there are others nationalities who may well fall into the "scummy" category.  There is no implicit or explicit exemption of non-British climbers at all in this sentence.  

Now this may not have been the feeling you wished to convey,

Thankyou, that was exactly the clarification I wished to make as everyone then jumped from there to include
"but other nationalities are wonderful" or "that specifically means me & I can show that I'm not" neither of which I meant or wrote.

T'internet is a fickle beast.

[sharkey]

For some reason Mr Munro thinks the continentals are angels? with his anti chalk rants, can any sane person who has seen the effect pof has on holds really be so oblivious to the facts! This pontificating is so bloody pointless anyway as all climbers operating at a reasonable standard use chalk in font or elsewhere anyway.

I have met mr Munro he is a miserable twunt, he gave me a lecture about chalk abuse at some venue in font, i think you will find his admiration of the French is more to do with the auld alliance than anything else, he is Scottish afterall as he told me in a midlands accent.

[lagerstarfish]

For some reason Mr Munro thinks the continentals are angels? with his anti chalk rants, can any sane person who has seen the effect pof has on holds really be so oblivious to the facts! This pontificating is so bloody pointless anyway as all climbers operating at a reasonable standard use chalk in font or elsewhere anyway.

I have met mr Munro he is a miserable twunt, he gave me a lecture about chalk abuse at some venue in font, i think you will find his admiration of the French is more to do with the auld alliance than anything else, he is Scottish afterall as he told me in a midlands accent.

Is Mr Munro a 3000' high Scottish twunt?  I hereby declare myself to be the funniest man on the internet, furthermore....

1) I myself am perfect and can do no wrong.
2) therefore everything I do is not wrong
3) I use chalk.
4) from 1 and 2 via modus tollens, using chalk is not wrong
5) from 2 and 3 via modus ponens, using chalk is not wrong
belt and braces proof (or tautological shite)

sorted

for further information, see my paper on The Ontolgical Argument For The Use Of Chalk in The Journal of New And Unnecessary Rantings April 2007

Might I also suggest that in future people write what they mean as clearly as possible?
Well I do suggest it whatever.

[Houdini]

Might I also suggest that in future people write what they mean as clearly as possible?

Well, you can suggest it; but one might as well a)  Piss in the wind, or b)  Ask people to stay on topic instead of stymieing debate w/ pages of pointless drivel about a whole lot of THE BORE that couldn't be further away from the issues at hand.

   

[chummer]

Back to the rather important point, access to Albarracin is sensitive because the local Mayor doesn't give two shits about climbers compared to the visitors there to visit the historical and archaelogical sites who he sees as bringing in business for his town which relies on tourism. ie, if what we do there as climbers displeases other visitors it will displease him and he would close access for climbing quicker that you can bury your post lunch turd. This HAS already happened a few years ago and the 'local' climbers managed to persuade him to grant access if certain conditions were kept to. Its really quite simple, respect these 'rules' and encourage others to do so or fuck off somewhere else. Just because other climbers can be disrespectfull cocksuckers doesn't mean you have to follow suit. Just because people are Spanish it doesn't mean they're local to the crag and are going to behave well. We climbed with a 'local' guy who was part of the team who got it reopened and he was encouraging brushing overchalked holds, using tape for tick marks and not yelling and screaming. Brushing does make a difference, tape is better for tick marks as you leave the rock clean and don't have to rely on other peoples inaccurately marked ticks, and screaming in a nice quiet forest just pisses everyone else off. As for shit, well it seems most British climbers are pretty good at hiding their shit, so why can't we simply adhere to the other 'rules' stated on the BOULDERALBERRACIN.COM website and encourage others in your group to do so. 

[dave]

Ok so here are the offical rules for albarracin:

1.- All the boulders nears to the prehistorical painting are unclimbables. Don’t climb the boulders visibles from the main
route or from the trails, also if you see old chalk tracks.

check - i've never seen any climbers, brits or otherwise doing this.

2.- The climbing is forbidden in the Sectors: Madriles/Acantilados, Psykokiller, Peninsula and Valle de Madera (only the
bottom part) from January 10 to August 15, for nification of protected birds: take a few meters of respect distance, (Delimitation
panels installed on the access trails).On a general description are all the sectors that are closers to the Canyon
situated on North-East side of The Paisaje Protegido park.

check - i've never been to these areas out of season.

3.- Minimize at maximum the visual impact of the magnesium on the rock: use only the indispensable quantity, brush
before and after climbing and tleave all your garbage (cigarettes, fingers strap, ecc...). Possibly use eco-magnesium (with
rock-similar colour pigment - see the Metolius one - )

check, we only used the "indispensable quantity", brushed stuff off and didn't drop litter. I never saw any evidence of rock-coloured chalk being used. even though its "rock coloured", you'd notice it.

4.- Parking only in the autorized areas (P signals), and don’t drive in forestal routes.Camping and light free fires are
strictly forbidden.

does sleeping in the carpark count as camping? when we were there there were dozens of groups camping, maybe 60-100 people in the carpark, stereos going, bongos being played, didgeridoos banging out ethnic peace-rhythms.

5- Don’t “paint” the boulders with stripes or other signs for your dynos! If is necessary, use an adhesive band or your
strap and remove it after climbing. ABSOLUTELY don’t use POF or pine’s resine.

check, though others clearly were - the big roofs in techos being case in point. I can't see this being entirely visiting climbers.

6- NEVER use metallic brushes, even on unclimbed boulders.

We saw some spaniard/s with wire brushes, I also saw pof on holds after a french group had moved through.

Did someone mention screaming and shouting? you should have seen some of the french group there in october, the screaming was ridiculous, they were at Sol one say, we could hear them from valle de madera. ditto we could hear them at techos when we were at psychokiller.

All in all, i don't see any evidence for suggesting british climbers are less responsible or more inclined to break the rules than continental europeans. of course i can't speak for all cases, i can only go on what we did/saw on 2 visits in 2007.

[Bonjoy]

Its really quite simple, respect these 'rules' and encourage others to do so or fuck off somewhere else. Just because other climbers can be disrespectfull cocksuckers doesn't mean you have to follow suit. Just because people are Spanish it doesn't mean they're local to the crag and are going to behave well. We climbed with a 'local' guy who was part of the team who got it reopened and he was encouraging brushing overchalked holds, using tape for tick marks and not yelling and screaming. Brushing does make a difference, tape is better for tick marks as you leave the rock clean and don't have to rely on other peoples inaccurately marked ticks, and screaming in a nice quiet forest just pisses everyone else off. As for shit, well it seems most British climbers are pretty good at hiding their shit, so why can't we simply adhere to the other 'rules' stated on the BOULDERALBERRACIN.COM website and encourage others in your group to do so. 

1. Stop banging head on wall
2. Remove chip from shoulder
3. Read what people have actually posted
4. Observe that UKB boulderers appear to have adhered to all the rules (with dubious exception of coloured chalk)
5. Realise you are preaching to the converted, therefore coming across as patronising and annoying
6. Consider thinking more before posting

[chummer]

 :oops:Fair one bonjoy, no preachin intended. no chip on shoulder either,I think my tone was a little out , got into a bit of a rant, easily done but no need eh?. just got bored of petty argueing between some users when i thought the original thread was about access sensitivity. Wasn't it?

[Bonjoy]

No worries. I can see why people get wound up. It is a brilliant place, hanging on an access knife-edge

[chummer]

nice one Bonjoy