[Johnny Brown]

The Fly is not V9. V7 tops. Adam Wainwright was not climbing 7c+ in the eighties. I'm seeing a general theme here - information from yorkshire is vague at best, downright bullshit at worst.  Whether that is a factor in yorkshire appearing so prominently in this list I wouldn't like to say....


...and before any peakie slagging starts, I've done my time as a caley local, so speak from experience....

[r-man]

Inertia Reel Trav was done in the mid 90s

I think the Superman SS was first done by Malcolm

The rockfax guide has it listed as 1980s. Was it definitely the 90s?

I just guessed at the Superman ss - surprised it took so long for someone to correct me! Off the list now though - unless the sitstart is non-eliminate?

[r-man]

I'm seeing a general theme here - information from yorkshire is vague at best, downright bullshit at worst. Whether that is a factor in yorkshire appearing so prominently in this list I wouldn't like to say....

To be fair, I found the grades for the fly and the wainright problem on an old out of date site. I'm not sure it's as much a question of bullshitting, more of hazy facts and the chinese whisper effect - though of course I could be wrong. I'm sure there were a lot of good climbers in Yorkshire in the 70s, I'm just mystified that no-one seems to know much about f.a.s in other areas.

But here's the current tally, by area.

Yorkshire: 7
Peak: 1 or 2 (first V10 uncertain)
Northumberland: 1 or 2 (first V10 uncertain)
Lancashire: 4

[Johnny Brown]

Some early hard stuff at Pex too... though undergraded generally so unknown.

Impression I got was that anything 'new' in yorkshire was immediately retro-claimed as 'done years ago and easy too youth'. Hence I'm a bit sceptical of some dates... admittedly the little crags up there do lend themselves more to bouldering though, no doubt they were climbing as hard as anywhere in the seventies.

[r-man]

Some early hard stuff at Pex too... though undergraded generally so unknown.

Yeah, I thought there must be. Needs local knowledge I guess.

Impression I got was that anything 'new' in yorkshire was immediately retro-claimed as 'done years ago and easy too youth'. Hence I'm a bit sceptical of some dates... admittedly the little crags up there do lend themselves more to bouldering though, no doubt they were climbing as hard as anywhere in the seventies.

Well, maybe. But apart from Railway slab, there has hardly been a single suggestion for any sub-V9 stuff in any other area, which I find a bit odd.

Anyway, just thought of one to fill the V6 slot, until someone thinks of a better idea:

V1 - The Crack pictured in the Yorkshire Grit Guide? - Simon's Seat - ? - 1900ish?
V2 - Parr's Crack - Brownstones - Eric Parr and friends - 1948-49
V3 - Traverse? - Shipley Glen - ? - 1920
V4 - Wall of Horrors Direct Start - Almscliff - Joe Brown (onsight) - 1950s?
V5 - Syretts roof - Almscliff - John Syrett - early 70s?
V6 - Above and Beyond the Kinaesthetic Barrier - Burbage South - John Allen - 1976
V7 - Red Baron - Shipley Glen - Mike Hammil - 1976
V7 - Desert Island Arete - ? - ? - 60s/70s?
V8 - Super Bald Arete - Ilkley - ? - ?
V8 - Jerry's Arete - Bridestones - Jerry Peel - 70s? (originally had better footholds)
V9 - Cental Wall Direct - Dib Scar - Rob Gawthorpe - 1982
V10 - Unrepeated dyno - Bowderstone - Pete Kirton - Early 1980s?
V10 - Walk on by - Curbar - Rob Gawthorpe - 1983
V11 - Vienna - Bowden Doors - Pete Kirton - 1981 (before holds got bigger)
V12 - Inertia Reel Traverse - Jerry Moffatt - Roaches - 1980s?
V13 - Isla de Enchanta - Trowbarrow - John Gaskins - 1999
V14 - Kaizen - Woodwell - John Gaskins - 2001
V15 - Walk Away ss - Fairysteps - John Gaskins - 2002

And you'd think that if John Allen was doing worrying highball V6s in 1976, there must have been people doing safer but harder problems at that time in the Peak. Any ideas?

[tc]

Alan Rouse began climbing at the age of 16 in 1968, the year of the foot and mouth epidemic.  The Breck was close to his home in Wallasey and it was here that he developed his fierce finger strength and mastery of face climbing, a style at which he excelled. His school friend and climbing partner Nick Parry recalls two highly significant new problems done by Rouse in 1968/9:
“Over several months he managed to put together the girdle of Bluebell Wall, a continuous series of 5c moves and made the first continuous traverse that summer."
 (that's “Breck 5c” or 6a/b in real money! Rouse's application of the grading system was famously harsh. The traverse is now rated V6, 6b)

[tc]

Greg Griffiths and Mike Collins both made hard additions at the Breck in the late 1970s, with Collins' “Mid-Level Traverse” of Bluebell Wall, V8+, 6c most notable amongst them. 1979 I think

[tc]

The Beatnik was first top-roped in 1959 by Jim O' Neil. Rouse and Boysen both soloed it in 1971 after top-rope practice. Probably about V5 then, highball V7 now.

[tc]

There's a shit load more but you'll have to wait, boys 'n girls  :wink:

[r-man]

The Beatnik was first top-roped in 1959 by Jim O' Neil. Rouse and Boysen both soloed it in 1971 after top-rope practice. Probably about V5 then, highball V7 now.

Impressive, but is the hard bit boulderable, or is it more of a route? And does Helsby 6a (rockfax gives it E5 6a) really equate to V7?  :shock: Do you mean it has got harder since the FA, and was an early V5, or the grade has gone up and it was actually an early V7? I've put it in at V5 for now...

Greg Griffiths and Mike Collins both made hard additions at the Breck in the late 1970s, with Collins' “Mid-Level Traverse” of Bluebell Wall, V8+, 6c most notable amongst them. 1979 I think

Well, we haven't got a V8+ yet, so that goes in, unless it's an eliminate?  

Alan Rouse...managed to put together the girdle of Bluebell Wall, a continuous series of 5c moves and made the first continuous traverse that summer."
(that's “Breck 5c” or 6a/b in real money! Rouse's application of the grading system was famously harsh. The traverse is now rated V6, 6b)

Good stuff. Replaces Above and beyond. Why have I never heard of the Breck before? Where is it exactly - I'm guessing somewhere in Merseyside?

Also, Ron Fawcett climbed Neon Dust in 1983, same year as Walk On By....

V1 - The Crack pictured in the Yorkshire Grit Guide? - Simon's Seat - ? - 1900ish?
V2 - Parr's Crack - Brownstones - Eric Parr and friends - 1948-49
V3 - Traverse? - Shipley Glen - ? - 1920
V4 - Wall of Horrors Direct Start - Almscliff - Joe Brown (onsight) - 1950s?
V5 - Syretts roof - Almscliff - John Syrett - early 70s?
V5 - The Beatnik - The Breck - Al Rouse and Martin Boysen - 1971
V6 - Bluebell Wall Traverse - The Breck - Al Rouse - 1968
V7 - Red Baron - Shipley Glen - Mike Hammil - 1976
V7 - Desert Island Arete - Earl Crag - ? - 60s/70s?
V8 - Super Bald Arete - Ilkley - ? - ?
V8 - Jerry's Arete - Bridestones - Jerry Peel - 70s? (originally had better footholds)
V8+ - Mid-level Traverse - The Breck - Mike Collins - 1979
V9 - Cental Wall Direct - Dib Scar - Rob Gawthorpe - 1982
V10 - Unrepeated dyno - Bowderstone - Pete Kirton - Early 1980s?
V10 - Walk on by - Curbar - Rob Gawthorpe - 1983
V10 - Neon Dust - Frogatt - Ron Fawcett - 1983
V11 - Vienna - Bowden Doors - Pete Kirton - 1981 (before holds got bigger)
V12 - Inertia Reel Traverse - Jerry Moffatt - Roaches - 1980s?
V13 - Isla de Enchanta - Trowbarrow - John Gaskins - 1999
V14 - Kaizen - Woodwell - John Gaskins - 2001
V15 - Walk Away ss - Fairysteps - John Gaskins - 2002

[Bonjoy]

Neon Dust is only V10 for the direct, the original traversed in above this. What year was the direct done in?

[hongkongstuey - work]

Inertia Reel Trav was done in the mid 90s

I think the Superman SS was first done by Malcolm

The rockfax guide has it listed as 1980s. Was it definitely the 90s?

Its gotta be pre mid-90's - I moved to Stoke in 1995 and it had certainly been done before then

[tc]

The Beatnik is at Helsby, not at the Breck.
Stevie Haston visited the Breck in 1979 and upped the ante with a vicious problem that is still reckoned to be around the Brit 7a/V10 mark or “harder than V10s at Hueco”, according to Haston.

[r-man]

The Beatnik is at Helsby, not at the Breck.
Stevie Haston visited the Breck in 1979 and upped the ante with a vicious problem that is still reckoned to be around the Brit 7a/V10 mark or “harder than V10s at Hueco”, according to Haston.

Woops, I did mean to put Helsby. Where is the Breck though? I'm curious.

Does Haston's problem have a name? And has it had any repeats?

V1 - The Crack pictured in the Yorkshire Grit Guide? - Simon's Seat - ? - 1900ish?
V2 - Parr's Crack - Brownstones - Eric Parr and friends - 1948-49
V3 - Traverse? - Shipley Glen - ? - 1920
V4 - Wall of Horrors Direct Start - Almscliff - Joe Brown (onsight) - 1950s?
V5 - Syretts roof - Almscliff - John Syrett - early 70s?
V5 - The Beatnik - Helsby - Al Rouse and Martin Boysen - 1971
V6 - Bluebell Wall Traverse - The Breck - Al Rouse - 1968
V7 - Red Baron - Shipley Glen - Mike Hammil - 1976
V7 - Desert Island Arete - Earl Crag - ? - 60s/70s?
V8 - Super Bald Arete - Ilkley - ? - ?
V8 - Jerry's Arete - Bridestones - Jerry Peel - 70s? (originally had better footholds)
V8+ - Mid-level Traverse - The Breck - Mike Collins - 1979
V9 - Cental Wall Direct - Dib Scar - Rob Gawthorpe - 1982
V10 - Helsby Problem - Helsby - Stevie Hastion - 1979
V11 - Vienna - Bowden Doors - Pete Kirton - 1981 (before holds got bigger)
V12 - Inertia Reel Traverse - Jerry Moffatt - Roaches - 1980s?
V13 - Isla de Enchanta - Trowbarrow - John Gaskins - 1999
V14 - Kaizen - Woodwell - John Gaskins - 2001
V15 - Walk Away ss - Fairysteps - John Gaskins - 2002

 

Neon Dust is only V10 for the direct, the original traversed in above this. What year was the direct done in?

Oh. Dunno. I've only got the rockfax, which says nothing about directs or indirects - just that often people scuttle off to the valkyrie crack after doing the hard bit.

What about Narcissus? I've seen people trying that with a bunch of mats. Boulder problem or route? And how hard? V6/V7?

[dave]

know this might sound a daft queation, but if regular superman starts on that low break at like waist height, then where does the sitter start, cuz i cun't see no holds beneath that.

[Ru]

Starts underneath the roof at the back, slightly right. Another example of a peak classic where the extra difficulty comes from climbing the original part, but with your hands and feet now covered in crap.

[dave]

fuckin hell Ru its almost like you're reading from a guidebook.......

[Bonjoy]

Neon Dust in the rockfax bouldering guide is the direct part of ND direct. Neon Dust was originally climbed with a traverse in from the side as a route to the break, the direct was presumably added later. Narcicus is a route. Don't you have any guidebooks??

[Ru]

fuckin hell Ru its almost like you're reading from a guidebook.......

Well spotted. It was originally a description for this problem, and I quite liked it. But then I didn't put Crag X in the guide. Luckily Peak Limestone isn't short of muddy sit starts to I could recycle it.

[tc]

Woops, I did mean to put Helsby. Where is the Breck though? I'm curious.

Does Haston's problem have a name? And has it had any repeats?

 

Breck Road, Wallasey. Go there -- it needs the traffic. But wear gloves and don't look the locals in the eye  :wink:

Yes, it's called "Haston's Problem" and 'the move' was repeated on a top rope by Keith Jones back in the day.

And then there's Pex Hill, which will probably fuck up your list yet again  :twisted: with stuff like Monoblock

The whole history thing is a bit of a project at the moment and should see the light of day sometime in the next few decades, other work/ climbing permitting...

[r-man]

Neon Dust in the rockfax bouldering guide is the direct part of ND direct. Neon Dust was originally climbed with a traverse in from the side as a route to the break, the direct was presumably added later. Narcicus is a route. Don't you have any guidebooks??

Yeah, I meant the rockfax route guidebook. I don't have the BMC definitive thing. Where on earth did Neon Dust go - the easy way up is up Valkyrie surely? - and it's just right of that. I thought it was Oedipus that traversed in. I'm very confused.  :?

[Greg C]

Whats this unrepeated dyno on the Bowderstone?  :?  Is it the slapstick dyno? Cos if it is I'm sure someone must have repeated it.

[Greg C]

Also I don't think you should have problems which have been altered, on the list, as its hard to establish just how much harder or easier they are now, why not just stick to intact problems?

[r-man]

Breck Road, Wallasey. Go there -- it needs the traffic. But wear gloves and don't look the locals in the eye  :wink:

Perhaps one reason it doesn't get any traffic is that no-one seems to talk about it/know about it. It isn't on the ukc crags database for a start, and there are only one or two brief mentions of it on the web - most of those out of date. And if ever someone asks about bouldering in the area, people always refer them to Pex, maybe Helsby and Frodsham, maybe Brownstones a bit further away, but no-one ever mentions The Breck. Yould create a crag in the ukc database, then at least keen boulderers in the area might stumble across it and spread the word...

Yes, it's called "Haston's Problem" and 'the move' was repeated on a top rope by Keith Jones back in the day.

For some reason it's not in the Western Grit Rockfax. Perhaps, again, no-one knew about it?

And then there's Pex Hill, which will probably fuck up your list yet again  :twisted: with stuff like Monoblock

Yeah, I had a suspiscion Pex would pop up at some point.  :wink:


V1 - The Crack pictured in the Yorkshire Grit Guide? - Simon's Seat - ? - 1900ish?
V2 - Parr's Crack - Brownstones - Eric Parr and friends - 1948-49
V3 - Traverse? - Shipley Glen - ? - 1920
V4 - Wall of Horrors Direct Start - Almscliff - Joe Brown (onsight) - 1950s?
V5 - Syretts roof - Almscliff - John Syrett - early 70s?
V5 - The Beatnik - Helsby - Al Rouse and Martin Boysen - 1971
V6 - Bluebell Wall Traverse - The Breck - Al Rouse - 1968
V7 - Red Baron - Shipley Glen - Mike Hammil - 1976
V7 - Desert Island Arete - Earl Crag - ? - 60s/70s?
V8 - Super Bald Arete - Ilkley - ? - ?
V8 - Jerry's Arete - Bridestones - Jerry Peel - 70s? (originally had better footholds)
V8+ - Mid-level Traverse - The Breck - Mike Collins - 1979
V9 - Cental Wall Direct - Dib Scar - Rob Gawthorpe - 1982
V10 - Haston Problem - The Breck - Stevie Hastion - 1979
V11 - Vienna - Bowden Doors - Pete Kirton - 1981 (before holds got bigger)
V12 - Inertia Reel Traverse - Jerry Moffatt - Roaches - 1980s?
V13 - Isla de Enchanta - Trowbarrow - John Gaskins - 1999
V14 - Kaizen - Woodwell - John Gaskins - 2001
V15 - Walk Away ss - Fairysteps - John Gaskins - 2002

[r-man]

Whats this unrepeated dyno on the Bowderstone?  Is it the slapstick dyno? Cos if it is I'm sure someone must have repeated it.

Dunno. Ask Andy Harris.

Also I don't think you should have problems which have been altered, on the list, as its hard to establish just how much harder or easier they are now, why not just stick to intact problems?

Yeah, I was thinking that as well. The thing is, it does mean that problems could move off the list if someone messed them up, and I like the idea of establishing a permanent list of milestones - though of course there's never going be any way to be totally accurate. And it also means that problems that have since got harder would have to be taken off - the end result might be that the list just favours the more solid rocktypes, which isn't really a true reflection of bouldering history.  But you're right that it does make it hard to gage them by current standards, as all we have to go on is word of mouth.

What does everyone else think?

Problems that would go:

V5 - The Beatnik - Helsby - Al Rouse and Martin Boysen - 1971
(since got harder.)

V8 - Jerry's Arete - Bridestones - Jerry Peel - 70s?
(originally had better footholds)

V11 - Vienna - Bowden Doors - Pete Kirton - 1981 (before holds got bigger) - would be replaced by Careless Torque