[Wood FT]

It’s not wrong and definitely not stupid.

People enjoy the skateboarding but don’t get it as a sport. BMX split as some of it is racing, which is far more exciting than the freestyle stuff.

Plus all of them have speed. For the general public Bouldering is a shit watch unfortunately skating, bmx, diving are not.

They looked like those circus elephants who have been trained to ride a tiny bike.

Now we're talking! Tenner on Dumbo, cut his ears off for improved aerodynamics.

[edshakey]

Before tomorrow morning, is this thread going to morph back into discussing the actual comp, as opposed to sport climbing's role in society? I was going to ask a question about Janja, but wouldn't want to disturb the chaos

[ali k]

Just caught up with the final. Exciting?…yes…in a lottery kind of way I guess. Satisfying?…no.

Normally the excitement comes from the fact that a good performance puts that individual higher up the leader board and potentially into a medal position. Not just switches around all the other results below them in a seemingly random way.

Oh, and that zone on Boulder 3 should have been one hold higher, as it looked piss up to it then a stopper move which only Ondra held. If someone can maybe pass that on to Percy?

[IanP]

Just caught up with the final. Exciting?…yes…in a lottery kind of way I guess. Satisfying?…no.

Normally the excitement comes from the fact that a good performance puts that individual higher up the leader board and potentially into a medal position. Not just switches around all the other results below them in a seemingly random way.

Oh, and that zone on Boulder 3 should have been one hold higher, as it looked piss up to it then a stopper move which only Ondra held. If someone can maybe pass that on to Percy?

Agree in general, very exciting finish but somewhat unsatisfying in terms of measuring sporting excellence.   Thought the lead climbing was by far the best bit, modern route setting really seems to work on lead with steep / sustained routes looking exciting and managing to get decent separation.  Boulders disappointed a bit, problem 2 was by far the best I thought.

On the Ondra side he simply didn't climb well enough, lucky with bye in the speed, really not very good in the bouldering and didn't even look that good (by his standards) in the lead.  Would have felt anti-climatic if he'd got gold.

Have said all that still looking forwards to the womens, will we see a Janja masterclass?

[Wellsy]

Okay so here are my thoughts

1) the lead final was very exciting because of the scoring system which meant that Schubert's final run made a massive difference to the final result.

2) Speed climbing is a bit of a circus which is too distinct. Speed being in the same format fucked it up.

So my solution would be (assuming we have speed climbing at all)

There are four events. A Bouldering Comp, a Lead Comp, a Speed Comp, and a Climbing Triathlon. Speed qualifiers are two goes, pick your best time, Speed finals are the same cos the race-off is dumb. The Bouldering Comp is four problems in the qualifiers, 3 problems in the finals. The lead is... three routes each time, and you use the same scoring system as the 2020 combined format, so a multiplier. Which means the lead is then exciting cos the points multiplier means that things stay interesting all the way through, but also the lead climbers get to have their own focused event.

Then you get the climbing triathlon which is exactly like the event we just had EXCEPT speed finals are two runs pick your best time and then rank all the time rather than the race-offs.

I think that'd be fun, that'd give events for specialists that reward their individual disciplines, an event in which being broadly capable is necessary, and also gets rid of the stupidity of the speed race-offs, but also keeps the excitement of the lead (because that was genuinely a fantastic end to the men's comp in terms of entertainment)

[GraemeA]

Now we're talking! Tenner on Dumbo, cut his ears off for improved aerodynamics.

Bit rude about Colin ;-)

[Bradders]

Just finished catching up. Really exciting finale, but really this says it all about the result:

The gold medal has gone to the 5th fastest speed climber, the worst boulderer, and the 4th best lead climber.

Take a bow, Sport Climbing!

That to me is just bizarre, regardless of how exciting it was. I know you can only work with what's in front of you and Gines-Lopez did that, but for me a fair result on the basis of actual achievement on the day would have been Coleman gold.

I don't think we should be too worried about the women's event though. None of the men today could be called speed specialists whereas for the women they're far more prevalent, but also thankfully pretty crap at the other disciplines so hopefully their scores will be 1x8x8=64 and 2x7x7=98 or something.

On a different note, I totally get why non-climbers would find the bouldering comp a bit of a snooze fest. In all honesty I used to think the same. There's far too much standing around for it to work well as an engaging spectator sport, not to mention the fact that the scoring is nowhere near as simple as the other two disciplines which again makes it hard to follow and sustain interest. The only way I can think to fix this would be to make it a flash comp, which might be a nightmare to set for but would mean everything is much more immediate and fast paced, yet also easier to follow and still a great way to select the very best athlete on the day.

[teestub]

The only way I can think to fix this would be to make it a flash comp, which might be a nightmare to set for but would mean everything is much more immediate and fast paced, yet also easier to follow and still a great way to select the very best athlete on the day.

One person out at a time, 10 mins on the clock, 6 problems to try, only tops matter 🔥🔥🔥

[petejh]

Pretty much all been said. I thought it was a great spectacle and was on the edge of my seat at the end. Delighted for Schubert, thought Coleman was solid, Lopez the jammy cunt who kept his cool and fluked a gold but fair play and what a good luck story! Which is what televised sport is great at doing - being surprising and enthralling and making you engaged with the event and the competitors.

Nemo's off the mark imo, sport is it's own thing and outdoor climbing isn't a sport, its a pastime. No wonder competitions are moving away, especially from outdoor bouldering - possibly the worst spectator sport ever for non-climbers! The 'real' outdoor climbers who think it's wrong that competition climbing is moving away from its roots can go and cry into their beers in good company along with the cutting edge alpinists, champion fell runners (and Grand Tours cyclists?). Us 'real' climbers will know them as the mountaineering, bouldering, route-climbing legends they are in their respective niche specialisms.

Will and a couple of others are too far down a jumpers for goalposts rabbit hole to appreciate the sporting chaos. GME has it almost 99.9% spot on, all I'd say is if the speed was tweaked to best time over two attempts rather than head-head, then the combined format would be a pretty much perfect combination of enthralling spectator sport with a fair scoring system. Bouldering is going to get lost on the watching public though unless it changes to flash or some other tweak to make it watchable - this shouldn't be a surprise when you think what bouldering's like in real life, who would pay to watch someone stand around staring at their fingers and do two moves every 3 minutes. Worse than sailing.

And Speed is at least still climbing. In triathlon the Brownlees have to excel at riding a bike, swimming across a lake and running, three dissimilar events. Daly Thompson is lauded as an Olympic great for being good at chucking a spear a long way across a field, running fast around the track and being quite good at jumping over a high bar amongst other daft challenges. And anyone who thinks speed isn't a valid sport.. Olympic 'athletes' compete at throwing a ball on a chain, shooting air pistols, and seeing how far they can jump across a sandpit.

[sdm]

One person out at a time, 10 mins on the clock, 6 problems to try, only tops matter 🔥🔥🔥

If we're going to give out medals for aeropow training, can we at least do it properly and make it a foot on campusing competition?

[Doylo]

At least it was so hard to watch / tucked away there shouldn’t the expected upsurge in climbing participation. BMC will have to pay for some billboards in major cities instead.

[ali k]

Speed is at least still climbing. In triathlon the Brownlees have to excel at riding a bike, swimming across a lake and running, three dissimilar events. Daly Thompson is lauded as an Olympic great for being good at chucking a spear a long way across a field, running fast around the track and being quite good at jumping over a high bar amongst other daft challenges.

I don’t have a problem with speed at all. It’s definitely a sport. But all these other combined events are a bit contrived, yes, but the scoring at least makes sense. When a triathlete crosses the line you know they’ve won - simple. Conversely, wind surfing I thought was shit cos in the women’s event that I watched the person who came first in the final didn’t win gold because of a previous race. Totally confusing and not at all satisfying.

And that was the problem for me at the end of the men’s final. Schubert’s run seemed to affect the final results in such a bizarre and confusing way it was impossible to understand what had happened unless you had a spreadsheet to hand. So it was exciting, but only in a tombola type way.

The fact that Lopez looked almost embarrassed to have won also said a lot.

[SA Chris]

I think the setters have nailed it.

Agree, but I think the bouldering would be a bit more universally appealing if the problems had been a bit more dramatic. I know we don't like them much but there wasn't the parkoury type stuff, or hanging upside down off toehooks in the final, which look more impressive than hard crimping. Guess with only 3 probs there isn't much scope.

[turnipturned]

In triathlon the Brownlees have to excel at riding a bike, swimming across a lake and running, three dissimilar events.

Not sure you can draw a comparison with triathlon. While different disciplines, they use similar energy systems, hence the reason you have sprint distance, olympic distance and iron mans etc! Not 750m swim, a leg of the Tour de France and a 100m sprint.

Also, Triathlon is a race. If you are first out on the swim, it doesn't necessarily give you some wildly disproportionate likelihood of winning a medal. You have to be consistent. Appreciate Yee is significantly better at running, but as an example, he didn't come last in the cycling event that somehow win Gold.

I thought its was a good success, entertaining to watch, but the scoring system was dumb. It most other sports, you have some kind of idea who is going to do well based on previous results leading up to the games. Thats why 'the underdog' is so exciting. This event is just random bollocks.

[Durbs]

Late to this party already, and it's only 12 hours ago...

BUT - the finals were a very exciting spectacle which is surely the point of a showcase sport in the Olympics?

Not to take anything away from Gines-Lopez, but I think it's fair to say his gold was fairly based on luck; false start from Duffy and then Tamoa fluffed it.
If Tamoa had stayed on, and (presumably) one, he would have won Gold, and G-L comes 6th (I think). Obviously, that's a MASSIVE "if", and you can also then say "if this..then that..." but to have had such a massive impact on the overall standings is a little crazy.

Bouldering setting wasn't quite as on-point as the quali's - B1 too easy, B3 too hard.

Side note: I'm sure there was some better beta on B3? There were a couple of feet holds not being used, and no one really tried a different sequence? Unless it was just poor conditions?

But yeah - as an actual spectacle to get "the world" interested in "sports climbing", I think it was a success.
What was bullshit was putting the entire thing behind a paywall in the UK, thus defeating the point of all the buildup.

Bonus plus points:
1) Ondra never has to speed climb again
2) We (hopefully) never have to listen to Jonny Bryan commentate again

[User deactivated.]

In regards to changing the bouldering format, does it really need to be exciting? I am completely unexcited by more than half of the sports in the Olympics, but can simultaneously understand why they exist.

[abarro81]

In regards to changing the bouldering format, does it really need to be exciting?

Yeah, dressage is still in despite being boring!

I concur with the general thought that the final was very exciting, but mostly because of how much maths I had to do in my head to work out the various options of who would podium depending on where Jacob fell off. Yay for the maths olympics! 

[TobyD]

Bouldering is going to get lost on the watching public though unless it changes to flash or some other tweak to make it watchable - this shouldn't be a surprise when you think what bouldering's like in real life, who would pay to watch someone stand around staring at their fingers and do two moves every 3 minutes. Worse than sailing.

I quite like watching sailing actually, but then I used to do lots of it as a teenager.  Itd be amazing if the windsurfing could have a wave sailing component as that's a bloody amazing spectator sport,  but it would have to be held in Hawaii or Portugal every time...

[andy popp]

Bouldering is going to get lost on the watching public though unless it changes to flash or some other tweak to make it watchable - this shouldn't be a surprise when you think what bouldering's like in real life, who would pay to watch someone stand around staring at their fingers and do two moves every 3 minutes. Worse than sailing.

I quite like watching sailing actually, but then I used to do lots of it as a teenager.  Itd be amazing if the windsurfing could have a wave sailing component as that's a bloody amazing spectator sport,  but it would have to be held in Hawaii or Portugal every time...

Reading public comments below newspaper articles, there are a lot of very positive reactions (including how physically difficult it looks, something I've always felt non-climbers struggle to get) but bouldering is almost universally viewed as extremely dull. It seems to be speed and lead the general public like.

[remus]

I concur with the general thought that the final was very exciting, but mostly because of how much maths I had to do in my head to work out the various options of who would podium depending on where Jacob fell off. Yay for the maths olympics! 

Gold medal if you can do it without pausing the stream.

[MischaHY]

Honestly my excitement has been rising throughout the Olympics but I've come to realise it's just because O-Dog is now finally free to go and gurn to his hearts content on rock like he was born to do 

[James Malloch]

Side note: I'm sure there was some better beta on B3? There were a couple of feet holds not being used, and no one really tried a different sequence? Unless it was just poor conditions?

From UKC:

  OK, the info you've all been asking for...intended beta for men's B3. Percy Bishton: "Flip left hand on the pinch and go again with right hand. Maybe observation isn’t helpful sometimes if they all decide on a whack sequence. But that’s the routesetting game!"

I was saying yesterday that I thought it was odd that no one went again with the RH. Seemed like it wasn’t that much further and then you could do a big move out the the final volume. I’ll take the top for it.

[galpinos]

Reading public comments below newspaper articles, there are a lot of very positive reactions (including how physically difficult it looks, something I've always felt non-climbers struggle to get) but bouldering is almost universally viewed as extremely dull. It seems to be speed and lead the general public like.

Anecdotally, I'd agree.

From a survey of work colleagues (engineering firm full of "typical sports fans", i.e. lots of overweight middle aged men who do zero exercise bar walking from the multi story to the office who wang on continuously about football plus a few MAMILs) who watched some of it at my insistence, all liked the speed, all thought bouldering was dull, those that made it to lead (most were put off by the bouldering) enjoyed it.

[Bradders]

My goodness me Garnbret v Raboutou was tight!

I'm still convinced that head to head makes no sense from the perspective of the overall competition and scoring etc. but it's certainly exciting.

Important result for Garnbret. She may well need that 5th place, but importantly also knocks Raboutou down to 7th at best.

[galpinos]

My goodness me Garnbret v Raboutou was tight!

I'm still convinced that head to head makes no sense from the perspective of the overall competition and scoring etc. but it's certainly exciting.

Important result for Garnbret. She may well need that 5th place, but importantly also knocks Raboutou down to 7th at best.

Garnbret put in a good showing there. Will probably helps settle any nerves she had with her best two rounds to go. Will be interesting with the Japanese athletes both ahead of her. Gutted for Raboutou, Hopefully it won't affect her like it seemed to get in Duffy's head as she's worth a medal imho.