[Will Hunt]

Denmarks tactics were to be extremely physical and essentially frustrate England,

Whoa whoa. Isn't it the other way round, that England are experts at putting themselves between the opposition and the ball, forcing themselves to be toppled to get free kicks? Not diving per se, but being very canny about going to ground. It's not me saying that, I know nothing about the game, but the commentators said it multiple times.
"This bloke [who'd just been awarded a free kick] is the most fouled player in the premier league two years running".

[galpinos]

"This bloke [who'd just been awarded a free kick] is the most fouled player in the premier league two years running".

Grealish has quick feet, he gets fouled a lot because the ball's gone by the time the tackler's foot gets there. I'm not his biggest fan but think he has been decent for England this tournament.

[tommytwotone]

Ditto Sterling. Yes the foul for the pen was dubious at best, but when you have the courage and skill to run at a defence there's always a chance that those things can happen.

As an England fan since Mexico '86, I've always been frustrated by our tactical reluctance to not challenge an opposition in that way, instead relying on 4-4-2 formations, and (usually) swinging crosses in that the opposition deals with easily.

[cheque]

Pickford still gives me the willies though, crikey.

In what way, like Slender Man?

Can’t speak for Galpinos but Pickford regained his often disconcerting flappiness last night.  For a player who’s picked more for his distribution than his shot-stopping (but who had been great with both so far) it was stressful to see him slice not just clearances but balls he had more time with. Of all the knockout games so far it was only the Ukraine one where the dread thought of “if it goes to pens they have the better keeper ” wasn’t there and obviously it’s the same for the final.

Like Foden he seems to be channeling the spirit of 1996 with a dreadful throwback hairstyle too. 

I’m not sure Italy are clear favourites but the facts are there- unbeaten for years, 100% tournament record so far (albeit with one shootout), manager with a proven record in club football, lots of very good players, best in the world at “game management” etc. I think if they go ahead in the final then we won’t be able to get back into it.

It’s hard to deny that they have a pre-destined vibe to them but bizarrely and excitingly England do too. It would be great fun to watch as a neutral I’m sure. Whether the home advantage is that good a thing I’m not so sure of though. I reckon we’d have beaten Denmark in the 90 if the match was in Baku or somewhere- stuff like booing constantly whenever the opposition has the ball has the opposite to its intended effect. At least that brass band aren’t allowed in at the moment.

It's still not quite as prestigious as a world cup though!

Yep, but quite is the operative word there. Also, our grandparents’ generation won the World Cup once so, as any Scottish, Welsh, Irish or Northern Irish football fan will tell you, we’re the best in that for ever so it’s more important that England win this one to prove we’re indisputably the best country. 

Denmarks tactics were to be extremely physical and essentially frustrate England,

 Isn't it the other way round, that England are experts at putting themselves between the opposition and the ball, forcing themselves to be toppled to get free kicks? Not diving per se, but being very canny about going to ground.

England have become experts at this under Southgate and Denmark are an easy team to do it against. Whose fault that is is certainly a point of debate…

Exactly why Grealish is the most fouled player is quite a long thing to explain but his presence is guaranteed to win free kicks in particular areas of the pitch and that’s why he was brought on when he was and subsequently taken off when he was (ouch!) as well.

It’s far from entirely “the other way round” though. Denmark defended very deeply for a huge amount of the game (almost all of England’s goals in this championship have been from close range and Denmark crowded their own six yard box constantly to frustrate this) and were playing for penalties long before the start of extra time. Look at the stats, particularly the passing and shots. It was a cagey game with both teams exploiting the others’ weaknesses, which England did better. Not classic viewing but I think a true neutral would agree that England were still the team that “played more football” despite the obvious unattractive elements.

[tommytwotone]

My two cents - being an England "fan" is problematic for any number of reasons, mainly all the Sun-reader jingoistic bollocks.

Someone pointed out the other day that whenever we play Germany, they are always referred to as "The Germans", not German the country. That does not happen when we play any other nation.

While I'm chuffed to bits to see England doing well, I think the icing on the cake is the degree to which the aforementioned Sun readers are hopefully feeling really conflicted at getting behind a bunch of what they previously dismissed as see as wet / woke, knee-taking, Marxist do-gooders.

This slipped under the radar, but Gary Neville summed it up last night, talking over images of Southgate celebrating:

"The standard of leaders in this country the past couple of years has been poor. Looking at that man, he’s everything a leader should be, respectful, humble, he tells the truth."

[SA Chris]

express themselves.

It's one on one

Express themselves

They can't be wrong

When something's good

It's never gone

[SA Chris]

Someone pointed out the other day that whenever we play Germany, they are always referred to as "The Germans", not German the country. That does not happen when we play any other nation.

Often hear French team referred to as "The French", likewise "The Dutch"?

[spidermonkey09]

Essentially what Cheque, Galpinos and TTT said, although I thought it was a fairly clearcut penalty. There was an appeal on Kane in the second half which was even clearer and should also have been given.

England are canny as you say but Denmark are a team of big men who tried to dominate physically, especially in midfield. Rice in particular was manhandled all evening, as was Mount. You could see them both getting wound up about it, testament to the Danish tactics working. I also thought the ref was very (over)tolerant of this manhandling for the vast majority of the game with some weird moments of inconsistency, the pen being one, but the unintelligible decision to book Maguire for challenging in the air being another. Was amazed there weren't more yellow cards. Edit, just remembered the bizarre decision that led to the free kick that Denmark scored from, penalising Shaw for doing not very much. The pen was 50/50 but there was plenty that went the Danes way, so I don't think anyone can have any serious complaints on that front

[spidermonkey09]

Someone pointed out the other day that whenever we play Germany, they are always referred to as "The Germans", not German the country. That does not happen when we play any other nation.

Often hear French team referred to as "The French", likewise "The Dutch"?

Yeah, there's a lot I agree with in TTTs post but this point is plain wrong. I heard constant references to the Danes last night!

[northern yob]

Just so the beer bellied, nazi tattooed, brexit and Tory loving cockneys who claim to represent England can cry into their flat, warm Carling.

Says the woke, middle class, coffee snob who lives in his van, and was always last pick at football in school.

You can’t beat a good stereotype

[tommytwotone]

Maybe, but I know which side of the argument I'd rather be on.

[SA Chris]

penalising Shaw for doing not very much.

Looked like he had him in a tackle hold that wouldn't have looked out of place in a rugby match IMO.

[Andy F]

Just so the beer bellied, nazi tattooed, brexit and Tory loving cockneys who claim to represent England can cry into their flat, warm Carling.

Says the woke, middle class, coffee snob who lives in his van, and was always last pick at football in school.

You can’t beat a good stereotype

I played for the school team and live in a 4 bed semi. But the rest is pretty spot on. And I'm proud to be woke.

Also, what does Rice add to the midfield? Henderson is a far better player and adds much more to the team. It was noticeable that during the huddle before extra time Henderson lead the team talk after Peewee, while (the massively overrated Kane) shuffled off. He's the real team captain.

[Will Hunt]

UKB at its hand-wringing best. Surely a bit of international craic is all part of the fun of the tournament? I thought this was a fun exchange (the Danish text reads "we eat you for breakfast"):
https://www.indy100.com/viral/the-sun-bacon-england-danish-b1879798

The Danish paper's is especially good. Lock up your villagers!

If we ever play Ze Germans again I won't be happy unless the team wheels onto the pitch in a Sherman tank, which then blasts a flag from its main gun which unfurls to read "They don't like it up 'em!"

The Germans could respond by creating an effigy of the £ symbol and having an enormous 4-storey high animatronic Merkel set it alight.

[northern yob]

Just so the beer bellied, nazi tattooed, brexit and Tory loving cockneys who claim to represent England can cry into their flat, warm Carling.

Says the woke, middle class, coffee snob who lives in his van, and was always last pick at football in school.

You can’t beat a good stereotype

I played for the school team and live in a 4 bed semi. But the rest is pretty spot on. And I'm proud to be woke.

It wasn’t aimed at you to be honest, just a generalisation..... I more than fit into the stereotype! Just thought that us woke climber types shouldn’t be throwing stereotypes around even if we prove the point that they are generally true to some degree....

I think that for the first time in my lifetime we look like a team of winners! Southgate has done an amazing job with the culture of the squad, and despite the nazi’s, what this team actually represents is a diverse multicultural Britain, not afraid to make tough choices and stand by them to be counted. They have courage and are prepared to lose. They are also in it together, maybe the country could learn a thing or two from them...

It’s a final and anything could happen. Win or lose they’ve certainly made me feel proud about my country for the first time in a while. I think they’ve done us proud.

[ali k]

More booing during the national anthem and a fucking laser in the goalie’s eye. Scum. Subhuman scum.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57763001

[Falling Down]

The tournament has been great so far. Most games have been played at a cracking pace with loads of goals and pretty evenly matched teams having to play at their best to win.

Can’t wait for Sunday. Italy look very strong and they have guile and gamesmanship in spades, but I could say the same for the current England team now which makes for an exciting final.

It’d be amazing if England win it.

This is pretty good https://thequietus.com/articles/30189-gareth-southgate-england-politics on the politics of it all.

[danm]

The standard during this tournament is the best I've ever seen I think, it's been really impressive with exciting matches from many teams. I'm usually ambivalent about supporting England because of all the toxic baggage brought by a sub-section of the supporters, reflected by the laser pen incident and booing of the Danish anthem. Then again, there are also plenty of reasons to support and cheer on this particular team and manager: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/05/england-team-semi-final-players-racism-inequality?fbclid=IwAR1ftBbgnXhfbBLFZOlesDSvsC43T-ycLnY46jUmjnuRVGK0v5mEeAYWl2Y

[BrutusTheBear]

Not a fan of football, haven't watched any of the Euro games (my wife insists that I should watch final)!
However, I am aware of the actions and words of members of this team which I am fully impressed by.  Gareth Southgate's response to questioning around the team taking the knee was outstanding and shut the press down. The actions players themselves have taken within their communities and politically are also impressive in their understanding and solidarity towards those at the bottom of the pile.  Using their platform for the greater good.
The England Football Team/ Her Majesty's Official Opposition

[petejh]

Interesting the divide displayed on this thread between those able to acknowledge negatives while focussing (and celebrating) overwhelming positives, versus those seemingly focussed only on grumbling about negatives...
Also interesting how politicised the game has become for some people.. or rather how they're attempting to use it as a tool for pushing their political agenda. To me it's football, and great because it's nothing else but a stupid yet beautiful game. Not anything to do with party politics and who governs the country. Thought Gary Neville was a bellend for trying to introduce political opinion into a great moment in sport.

[teestub]

I hope England win and then have some sort of Smith and Carlos moment



Edit: sorry Pete, that was just athletics eh!

[galpinos]

Can’t wait for Sunday. Italy look very strong and they have guile and gamesmanship in spades, but I could say the same for the current England team now which makes for an exciting final.

If it comes down to quality of shithousery the Italians are nailed on! Looking forward to it, and I've not felt like that for quite a while!

[petejh]

Can’t wait for Sunday. Italy look very strong and they have guile and gamesmanship in spades, but I could say the same for the current England team now which makes for an exciting final.

If it comes down to quality of shithousery the Italians are nailed on! Looking forward to it, and I've not felt like that for quite a while!

Racial politics versus party politics, it's a very different thing. When an entire race has been prejudiced against for literally hundreds of years, treated as sub-human scum (ahem..) and used as slaves to enrich current power structures, then I think most people can see the power and relevance of those moments in sport.
When it's just someone living a pretty good life in an open and fair democratic state, who has a chip on their shoulder because they don't agree with the current government in power, then keep it out of sport ffs.

[Andy F]

Can’t wait for Sunday. Italy look very strong and they have guile and gamesmanship in spades, but I could say the same for the current England team now which makes for an exciting final.

If it comes down to quality of shithousery the Italians are nailed on! Looking forward to it, and I've not felt like that for quite a while!

Racial politics versus party politics, it's a very different thing. When an entire race has been prejudiced against for literally hundreds of years, treated as sub-human scum (ahem..) and used as slaves to enrich current power structures, then I think most people can see the power and relevance of those moments in sport.
When it's just someone living a pretty good life in an open and fair democratic state, who has a chip on their shoulder because they don't agree with the current government in power, then keep it out of sport ffs.

I can't stand Gary Neville (LFC vs MUFC rivalry), but he was spot on with his comments.

Southgate has been a far better leader of England than Boris the butcher has of the country. He's instilled a real team spirit in the squad, been tactically aware and his handling of the anti-woke idiots has been excellent.

[petejh]

That may be true, but he's also been a far greater leader than my line manager at work, but I don't fucking harp on about it like a stuck party political broadcast, because it's completely irrelevant to the topic of football.

Should we compare Southgate's leadership qualities to that of the president of the BMC, or the local council, if leadership comparisons are so relevant?