[cheque]

It’s boring and underwhelming watching the England games but seriously painful listening to the moaning of the in-match commentary. I was pleased when Kane and Rice hinted at the fact that all the pundits slagging them off played in England sides that didn’t win anything either. Shearer and Lineker were at least at nearly-succesful tournaments- the way Lee Dixon talks you’d think the culmination of his England career was against Germany in 1966 rather than San Marino in 1993.

This Slovakia match feels 50/50 between crashing out with a whimper, Southgate’s-head-on-a-stick-type outrage or convincing victory, get-behind-our-brave-boys-type hubris and for the first time in my life I feel like I’d prefer the first so I can enjoy the rest of the Euros more as a neutral- England are so obviously in the proverbial “bad moment” at this tournament but I can’t find it in me to hold it against players or manager after the last couple.

Southgate’s era has obviously just run its course and so many things have to come together at exactly the right time for an international tournament that I can’t feel anything stronger than “oh well, not our year this time”.

Seeing England actually be brilliant and near-formidable cleared my mind of all the frustration of them being crap underachievers for so long that it doesn’t really annoy me any more. Obviously the feeling of the general England fan population is different but I can’t relate to it.

On a basic boring level it’s obviously the compromises caused by trying to work around the lack of options at left back and defensive midfield that have done for England in this tournament, that and stalwart Southgate-era players having gone off the boil to the extent that they’re unpickable. But it’s the little knock-on effects of those things and the club-level factors with the individual players that kind of spiral round and create the dysfunction. Similar to how so many little things all add up to everything going right against all odds, like when Greece won Euro 2004. It’s fascinating really. I always feel like so much of what makes teams work is basic mad little interpersonal shit that we have no idea about.

The most interesting thing about this tournament in general for me so far is how few of the big nations have “turned up” and how few heroes have been performing to their expected level- at this rate the golden boot winner will have three or four goals! Only Spain look 100% scary. 

[petejh]

If football teams were publicly-listed companies I'd 100% be buying England right now. Very undervalued, large upside potential, minimum downside remaining, sound management, good fundamentals. Semi-finals my prediction.

[spidermonkey09]

They're 7/2 favourites to reach the semis so you're not alone.

[Wellsy]

I mean it's not exciting and they could be playing better but they did top their group. Like, they literally could not be in a better position.

Honestly all the constant whinging is boring and also England fans/pundits seem almost psychotic at times

[danm]

I think I read one too many Reddit posts to be fair, and my piss well and truly boiled. It sounds like my general sentiment is agreed with though, too much whinging from fans/pundits and not enough supporting the team.

[galpinos]

I am fascinated by the fact with have three of the best forwards in their respective leagues in Kane, Bellingham and Foden, but seem to be unable to get a decent performance out of any of them.

To quote Barney Ronay in the Guardian (and ensure my centerist dad status is maintained...)

Square pegs in round holes is a problem we keep hearing. But why are the pegs so square?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/27/austria-are-everything-england-are-not-and-never-have-been-euro-2024

[spidermonkey09]

Cesc Fabregas was saying similar to be fair, so its not just the preserve of smug gits like Ronay (decent article though). Foden should be capable of doing more than one thing, of playing in more than one way.

[mark20]

Wow that was painful. I was almost a bit gutted when Bellingham scored as I couldn't be arsed with another 30 mins. But hopefully the players can get a boost from turning that around and start playing a bit more positively in the next game. Mainoo looks good in midfield and Palmer and Toney gave something different when they came on.
Now will Southgate realise his starting line up doesn't work and make changes for the next match?

[SA Chris]

My heart can do without that kind of thing. Talk about making it hard for yourselves.

[spidermonkey09]

Shocking apart from 5 minutes where we scored twice. But hey, we're through. Hoping the siege mentality in the squad starts to bear dividends soon. Going to be interesting to see how we set up next weekend with Guehi unfortunately suspended (that ref was shit). I was also impressed with Toney. But Southgate got out of jail there in a big way. Not making substitutions in the second half was inexplicable; it worked out it the end but we shouldn't have been reliant on an absolute worldie of a goal in the 95th minute.

[Ged]

Now will Southgate realise his starting line up doesn't work and make changes for the next match?

No.

[galpinos]

Shocking apart from 5 minutes where we scored twice. But hey, we're through. Hoping the siege mentality in the squad starts to bear dividends soon. Going to be interesting to see how we set up next weekend with Guehi unfortunately suspended (that ref was shit). I was also impressed with Toney. But Southgate got out of jail there in a big way. Not making substitutions in the second half was inexplicable; it worked out it the end but we shouldn't have been reliant on an absolute worldie of a goal in the 95th minute.

I am pretty impressed with the mentality that goes, "I've been s**t this entire tournament bar the first 30 minutes of the first match and this is our last chance to score, I'll have a crack at a flying volley". Lovely stuff.

Can't see them beating the Swiss but at 95 minuites in I couldn't;'t see them beating Slovakia so......

[cheque]

I am pretty impressed with the mentality that goes, "I've been s**t this entire tournament bar the first 30 minutes of the first match and this is our last chance to score, I'll have a crack at a flying volley". Lovely stuff.

He’s learnt so well in his short time at the Bernabeu! If that had been a Real Madrid Champions League tie it’s not hard to imagine the pundits gushing about how they “always find a way to win”, “don’t know when they’re beaten” etc. I guess it’s easier to do that about a glamorous side you’re not invested in and who often go on to win the whole tournament.

I think a more accurate comparison for this England is the modern day Man United- a squad packed with expensive talent, all underperforming to a baffling extent, never seeming like they’re having fun and shrugging/ shouting at each other all the time, management with no idea of their best 11, making heavy weather of unentertaining draws against clearly inferior sides, but spawning results in the dying stages of matches they’ve been outplayed in and (hopefully) finishing seasons improbably well due to raising their game against good teams and getting extremely kind draws in cup competitions.

[danm]

I find the level of punditry and discourse in general sadly lacking when it comes to England and football. Lots of know it alls talking about who should play, and how the manager is so crap. And yet, I haven't heard a single attempt to examine why we are one of the best teams in modern times when it comes to the qualification process, but sub-par when it comes to the finals, particularly the knock out stages. Why this dichotomy? Could it be the hysterical pressure and expectation, or is it something else? Then there is the reporting, witless and no different to a pissed up mate detailing their emotional response to the match. Nothing of value to be learned there if you want insight rather than some tedious bore's opinion - I'll pass thanks. Four Four Two is about the only commentary that's made me think about what's happening, or not, for England and why. Anyone else feel this way?

[Duncan campbell]

Cheque is not “raising your game against good teams” the same as warming up on that route a few grades below to it limit and climbing like a bit of a muppet, then getting on the route you want to do near your limit and it all clicking and you climb well?

It does seem crazy we haven’t won anything in essentially forever, but hating on the team right now isn’t the best time for it, imagine if you fell off that big onsight/redpoint and everyone just said how shit you were and that you had completely the wrong shoes? Don’t think it would help performance tbh

It was a hard match to watch but at the end of the day we won before penalties and didn’t give up even when it seemed lost. I’m sure the team are pretty proud of that.

Edit: I’m no expert on football

[spidermonkey09]

 I think it's more likely you're just a very discerning reader Dan, who clearly knows a lot about the sport. I think the same about mainstream reporting on England cricket but there's not a lot you can do. I don't think it's reasonable to expect the BBC match report to get stuck into strategy and tactics in the manner four four two would.

[petejh]

I find the level of punditry and discourse in general sadly lacking when it comes to England and football. Lots of know it alls talking about who should play, and how the manager is so crap. And yet, I haven't heard a single attempt to examine why we are one of the best teams in modern times when it comes to the qualification process, but sub-par when it comes to the finals, particularly the knock out stages. Why this dichotomy?

Because tv/radio pundits aren't employed to offer intelligent nuanced content? They're employed (even if perhaps they don't realise it) to be 'interesting to the average watcher or listener', read: to troll. I think football punditry in the UK moved towards trolling for attention when R5's 606 programme changed, a few years ago, from a relatively 'normal' post-match analysis programme into a format of curated hysterical bickering between the idiot presenters and their baited audience.

It's the relentless march of the idiots.

Nothing of value to be learned there if you want insight rather than some tedious bore's opinion

Exactly. All that really matters is the result and your own opinion.

[mark20]

I think football punditry in the UK moved towards trolling for attention when R5's 606 programme changed, a few years ago, from a relatively 'normal' post-match analysis programme into a format of curated hysterical bickering between the idiot presenters and their baited audience.

It's the relentless march of the idiots.

I'd agree here. If you think 606 is bad, you should hear TalkSport! Although I wouldn't solely criticize football/sport analysis here, it seems to be a reflection of political talk radio being utter shite, both BBC and commercial - eg Jeremy Vine / all of LBC.
Monday Night Club on R5 usually a bit better - Rory Smith is one of the better sports journalists on these types of programmes.

[Wellsy]

Labour gov so England to now win Euros obvs

[Dac]

England (men) winning something for the first time since Harold Macmillan was prime minister; and the attendant (even greater) saturation coverage of football in the media and (even greater) expectation of future success is, to me, a price worth paying for a Labour government.

[SA Chris]

Well well.

[MarkJ]

Let us remember the prophetic words of Mark E. Smith :
"And the Dutch
are weeping
In four languages
AT LEAST "

[chriss]

I'm not a massive football fan, but watched the game and will watch the final.

Spain are clearly the favourites, but fingers crossed 🤞