[Bradders]

quite a bit down form the spring's highpoint of 39kg.

James - out of interest, what size edge was this on and how much did you weigh at the time?

Guessing this was about when you smashed Zoo York out of the park (?) so interested as a benchmark.

[jamesturnbull97]

quite a bit down form the spring's highpoint of 39kg.

James - out of interest, what size edge was this on and how much did you weigh at the time?

Guessing this was about when you smashed Zoo York out of the park (?) so interested as a benchmark.

Yes, I did a lot of fingerboarding through December, January and February which along with climbing on my board is 100% what I'd put my form on in the spring on.
I do all my fbing on a small campus rung which is about 20mm and I'm guessing I'd by in my usual 70-73kg bracket so I guess it was around 55% of body weight.

[Bradders]

Really interesting, cheers.

[user deactivated]

I appreciate what you are saying and I have given the subject a lot of thought. Having been burnt in the past I don't share your level of faith in indoor training programmes to deliver outside or to a planned peak. I also think the many and varied benefits of turning up and trying hard outside are generally underestimated.

Psychologically training almost exclusively indoors would be demotivating and make me grumpier than I already am. I've skewed my life and worked towards having the freedom to climb on real rock as often as I want and it would be perverse to sacrifice that freedom now I have more time on my hands than ever
     

Hey Shark, just curious (not saying this is a good idea) but have you ever tried doing consistently less climbing / training. Just rocking up to the crag or wall and trying hard twice a week for example. Sort of putting climbing to the bottom of the pile but still being psyched to do your best? And using all that free time to chill 😬. I wonder if goal orientated training can spill over into self fladulation both mentally and physically that can’t be fun and ends up being a barrier.

[tomtom]

[Fiend]

See you at the end of the summer for the Lleyn and South Stack post-bird-ban shark. Don't get too strong as you can't pull too hard there.

[teestub]

self fladulation

flagellation?

[T_B]

Hey Shark, just curious (not saying this is a good idea) but have you ever tried doing consistently less climbing / training. Just rocking up to the crag or wall and trying hard twice a week for example. Sort of putting climbing to the bottom of the pile but still being psyched to do your best? And using all that free time to chill 😬. I wonder if goal orientated training can spill over into self fladulation both mentally and physically that can’t be fun and ends up being a barrier.

A mate of mine once described climbing as a "ball and chain". Once it feels like that it's definitely time to re-evaluate! Having another interest/pastime can be good for pysche, but I doubt it's good for your top-end performance. Those who I see really reaching their potential in a sport live and breathe it. I reckon you can operate at, say 90% of max, by doing a lot less climbing. But if you're trying to break a grade in your 30th or 40th year of climbing, you probably need to do a lot of deadhanging, not chilling

[Will Hunt]

You don't have to knock climbing on the head to keep it fresh. Bouldering, sport, easy trad, headpointy trad, highballing - it's a broad church. Visiting new crags and ticking off routes you haven't done before is a great way to keep things new and interesting. Provided you keep your hand in with a session or two a week of what might be considered "training", it doesn't need to come at the detriment of strength.

[SA Chris]

Nah bollocks. Try some thing new you are utterly terrible at and see massive improvements, rather than marginal gains / cycles of peaks and troughs. As much as I love it, I have to accept my peak of climbing performance was a good decade or more ago. I'll never give it up completely though.

[user deactivated]

self fladulation

flagellation?

Haha thank god for ukb..... thanks Tim a prompt reminder to ‘flagellate’ 

[teestub]

I thought it might be a combination of self flagellation and self adulation!

[shark]

Those who I see really reaching their potential in a sport live and breathe it. I reckon you can operate at, say 90% of max, by doing a lot less climbing. But if you're trying to break a grade in your 30th or 40th year of climbing, you probably need to do a lot of deadhanging, not chilling

Nice thought Dan but what Tom says above is more plausible. As it happens I've just been looking back at old Power Club entries from 2010 which was a good year when I did K3 (which I rate as my hardest redpoint still) and the Toilet in the Autumn and was a surprised how much basic strength training and fingerboarding I did, not just in the winter but throughout the year. This year I pretty much just climbed outside from mid April onwards with very little fingerboarding and strength training and didn't do very well on the Oak in the Autumn despite a lot of that climbing being bouldering. Same in 2015 when I did well on the Oak I did big fingerboard sessions once or twice a week as well as going to the Tor from start of May to mid July when I went to Squamish for 3 weeks and when I came back I styarted on the Oak again and whilst I just climbed I think I had built a good base as well as getting light.   

[user deactivated]

I thought it might be a combination of self flagellation and self adulation!

That’s the tension right there mate.

[Oldmanmatt]

self fladulation

flagellation?

Flatulation <3

[36chambers]

self fladulation

flagellation?

Flatulation <3

Flatulation 3<

[user deactivated]

Hey Shark, just curious (not saying this is a good idea) but have you ever tried doing consistently less climbing / training. Just rocking up to the crag or wall and trying hard twice a week for example. Sort of putting climbing to the bottom of the pile but still being psyched to do your best? And using all that free time to chill 😬. I wonder if goal orientated training can spill over into self fladulation both mentally and physically that can’t be fun and ends up being a barrier.

A mate of mine once described climbing as a "ball and chain". Once it feels like that it's definitely time to re-evaluate! Having another interest/pastime can be good for pysche, but I doubt it's good for your top-end performance. Those who I see really reaching their potential in a sport live and breathe it. I reckon you can operate at, say 90% of max, by doing a lot less climbing. But if you're trying to break a grade in your 30th or 40th year of climbing, you probably need to do a lot of deadhanging, not chilling

The value of chilling can’t be underestimated Tom 😎Seriously though it seems to be the only approach he hasn’t tried. I’d bet that the best chance of Simon getting up the oak is to spend a few months climbing once or so a week. Stopping before tired. Going to new venues. And having no more than 2 1.5 hour board sessions a week. Give up all the extraneous stuff like dead lifts, core and weighted pulls and generally have a fun chilled out time

[Doylo]

Wish it worked like that Dan!

[Will Hunt]

If only someone would tell all those Olympic athletes who push themselves to the point of being sick day-in-day-out. I'm sure they'd be glad of a good rest.

[teestub]

I didn't realise being sick was in the olympics, is that a new addition for Tokyo?

[moose]

If only someone would tell all those Olympic athletes who push themselves to the point of being sick day-in-day-out. I'm sure they'd be glad of a good rest.

Most of us aren't youngsters pushing the limits of human ability though!

I went from sport 7a to 8a+ just climbing as hard as I could every weekend, no midweek action at all.  The last couple of years, I've been finger-boarding and using a woodie midweek.  I feel that activity has been worthwhile for a sense of satisfaction and as a stress reliever, but it hasn't massively increased my accomplishments: gone from 8a+ to 8a+/b'ish, which well might have happened under my old regime. And, into the bargain, I seem to spend far more time worrying about niggling various musculo-skeletal issues! 

I am beginning to suspect that for the more mature chap, whose level is pretty much established, not feeling worn-down and avoiding injury is more important than marginal gains from training: save yourself for the weekend and don't give yourself excuses about being tired or having sore skin from training .

[tomtom]

Recovery certainly takes longer in my 40’s....

[jamesturnbull97]

If only someone would tell all those Olympic athletes who push themselves to the point of being sick day-in-day-out. I'm sure they'd be glad of a good rest.

Most of us aren't youngsters pushing the limits of human ability though!

I went from sport 7a to 8a+ just climbing as hard as I could every weekend, no midweek action at all.  The last couple of years, I've been finger-boarding and using a woodie midweek.  I feel that activity has been worthwhile for a sense of satisfaction and as a stress reliever, but it hasn't massively increased my accomplishments: gone from 8a+ to 8a+/b'ish, which well might have happened under my old regime. And, into the bargain, I seem to spend far more time worrying about niggling various musculo-skeletal issues! 

I am beginning to suspect that for the more mature chap, whose level is pretty much established, not feeling worn-down and avoiding injury is more important than marginal gains from training: save yourself for the weekend and don't give yourself excuses about being tired or having sore skin from training .

Just eat plenty of avocados, that got me from 8a-8c   

[Will Hunt]

What would Ben Moon do?

[user deactivated]

Wish it worked like that Dan!

You’ve got a point there Doylo, a regime of lock off’s, push ups and weighted crunches while listening to the Real Thing soundtrack at midnight is in order

Like moose said, my impression is generally one of boom-bust training cycles, endless fatigue, constant benchmarking, over training and repetition. The only things lacking seem to be rest, variety, adventure, and fun at a guess (only guessing). I agree with moose really, after I gave up all that stuff and started doing the latter I improved quite quickly. The key being rest and variety I reckon. Of course it’s no good comparing oneself to an Olympic athlete because that would be a waste of time.