[Nibile]

I think the standard Moonboard is 3.15 meters high, but I understand that falling off in awkward positions is always a bad thing for your back. This depends mostly by the kind of setting that people do on the Moonboard, in which almost every move - especially at the top - involves a dyno and a cut loose.
My advice goes as follows: have your back checked by another doctor; train on steep problems without cutting loose.
For the second, if you're building your own board, focus on the footholds and on moves - and hand holds - that will not allow a cut loose without falling.
Work on core tension.

[Nibile]

Oh, and do deadlifts.

[abarro81]

Just to add a different opinion, I would recommend not doing deadlifts. Or kettlebell swings. The small possibility of gains is not worth the risk IMO - do other core instead.

[petejh]

I second the deadlifts and kettlebells. I had ten years of back problems culminating in 2014 with a perma-damaged sciatic nerve and back surgery. I started kettlebell workouts within 18 months following surgery, and deadlifts a bit later. Provided you stick with good form and don't go too heavy they can be a very effective tool for strengthening and stabilsing the whole chain. Everyone's different though and it depends on your circumstances.

I train on the moonboard lots and falling/jumping from the top of that and other boulderiong causes me no issues.

Another vote for doing 2-4 move problems for power. And build a 50 degree woody in your garage if you really don't want to build a stronger back that can withstand falling from above 3 metres.

[teestub]

Just to add a different opinion, I would recommend not doing deadlifts. Or kettlebell swings. The small possibility of gains is not worth the risk IMO - do other core instead.

What risk?

[shark]

Katy Whit knackered her back deadlifting I think.

I took the risk and it did my lower back the world of good.

 

[abarro81]

The danger of hurting yourself.
I did a little deadlifting a few years back and it made no real difference to anything. Tried it again at the start of this year, and kettlebell swings... not been able to train core since Feb because of it. The 0.1% gain you might get from it isn't worth the risk compared to rings, upside down sits, TRX, floor core etc IMO

[lagerstarfish]

When lagers was recovering from his ankle injury he used to fall (on mats) with a parachute roll at the end. I sometimes do that when dropping off the top of some wall problems.

I still do this - the difference in back pain is amazing - everyone should do it when dropping from the top of a bouldering wall - I wish I had learned this when I was younger

[teestub]

The danger of hurting yourself.
I did a little deadlifting a few years back and it made no real difference to anything. Tried it again at the start of this year, and kettlebell swings... not been able to train core since Feb because of it. The 0.1% gain you might get from it isn't worth the risk compared to rings, upside down sits, TRX, floor core etc IMO

This sounds the danger of shit technique, which also exists in fingerboarding, campus, TRX etc etc. Any training at the suitable intensity carries a risk of injury. Appropriate technique training at an easy load followed by a steady ramping up of effort is required in any training activity.

Having a Phasmatodean morphology may make you more succeptible to injury in hip hinge exercises.

[petejh]

Alex didn't you also fuck yourself doing finger training, or was that actually on a route/boulder? The point being you can injure yourself doing pretty much anything, either through misfortune or mistake. Get your point about risk, but.. don't agree really

I find it hard to believe it isn't instinctive for everyone to roll over after jumping down in order to reduce impact on joints.. but then I suppose I just have to think of watching how some people land after jumping down from the stone wall after walking out of the diamond. Like a sack of cement hitting the pavement.. looking at you Luke 

[abarro81]

I've tweaked fingers bouldering outside, bouldering inside, route climbing outside and fingerboarding... but all of those are things I believe to be "worth the risk"
1 and 3 - thats just being a climber. My two recrurring/chronic issues came from climbing outdoors.
2 and 4 - I think the gains to be had from indoor bouldering and fingerboarding are again worth any risk. That said I wouldn't do things like spend a whole session boning crimps on a steep board because it wouldn't be worth it. Fingerboarding has only ever been minor tweaks. These are also very hard to get around if you want to get strong - almost every strong climber will advocate one of/both of these, which is very much not true of lifting.

IMO deadlifting can easily not be done, and you can do other stuff instead. The small gains available are not worth the risk IMO. Obvs people can make up their own minds, and coaches are divided on thinking its useful or a waste of time/energy, I just wanted to provide a contrary voice to the ukb deadlifting massive

[TobyD]

I have to say I largely agree with you Alex, my feeling is that you probably injure yourself to some extent because you have done a lot of specific training for relatively tweaky hold configurations - pockets for Era Vella or hard crimping at the tor for example. Obviously it's also because you have skinny girl fingers.

If one were, for example Megos or similar, and had all the time in the world to train, impeccable movement skills, and fingers of steel, a bit of deadlifting might give an extra couple of percent. It certainly seems as though it would have worth, but its specificity is so low I can't see that investing anymore than a tiny per cent of time in it would be worthwhile.

[petejh]

I think it depends on your individual circumstances.

If you haven't suffered with back problems which negatively affect your ability to climb then I can see how you might view things like deadlifting and kettlebells as not worth the risk (of injury). Much like I don't really need to do as much fingerboard max hangs as someone with weaker fingers than me, because my fingers are relatively strong naturally.

But if you do or have suffered back problems which stop you climbing your best then there's a lot of long-term health benefits  to be gained from doing these types of strengthening routines. (aka - not having a vulnerable fucked back)

It isn't black and white.

[Oldmanmatt]

I think it depends on your individual circumstances.

If you haven't suffered with back problems which negatively affect your ability to climb then I can see how you might view things like deadlifting and kettlebells as not worth the risk (of injury). Much like I don't really need to do as much fingerboard max hangs as someone with weaker fingers than me, because my fingers are relatively strong naturally.

But if you do or have suffered back problems which stop you climbing your best then there's a lot of long-term health benefits  to be gained from doing these types of strengthening routines. (aka - not having a vulnerable fucked back)

It isn't black and white.

 

This is very true.

This is not about climbing ability, or training for such; however if you want to climb, you need to do something about your back.

Like Pete, I’ve had issues (since a Surfing accident in ‘96). Four Epidurals and two surgical interventions. If I stop training core or let my back atrophy (Erector Spinae in particular) then I suffer.
Deadlifts, weighted dorsal raises, toe to bar, windscreen wipers with ankle weights, loads of ring stuff. Never, ever, ever, Sit-ups. Replace with palm to knee crunches and leg raises.

[Nibile]

I don't want to convince anyone to deadlift, because it's like trying to convince someone that they should fall in love, and why. It's a relative risk, but does you so good.
In any case, deadlifting does not mean being stupid and maxing out on 2xBW on your first session.
You can get excellent results just by doing some volume with 1xBW or a little more, greasing the groove and mastering the technique.
Climbers are extremely unbalanced between anterior and posterior chain, and just some new little stimulus is more than enough to sort things out.

[nai]

Before you dive in and start cranking out some of the stuff mentioned here could I suggest you look into core engagment and correct form while you perform any of these exercises.  Vitally important if you have back issues and don't get it right you'll be exposing your spine to potentially worse issues.
You need you glutes squeezed, pelvis tucked, belly tight and your back must not arch, it's like you're forming a protective barrier around the spine.  Watch a few videos, they'll likely be dull but not as dull as being flat out with your back in spasm trying to simply rock your knees from side to side
It's probably easiest to practice in a plank or dish/hollow body before moving on to more complex stuff, see how many times you lose concentration and let something go over the course of a minute, likley quite a few to start with.

[ashtond6]

Not gonna do deadlifts, I do appreciate the advice though. It's nice to know these issues can be linked to a weak core.

For anyone interested, I went tonight and did a good bit of rolling which was great, I really focussed on falling well.

I also focused on not cutting loose and pushing extra hard with feet.

Then at the end of the session on a body tension problem, a hold spun and I hit the mats like a sack of shit 
It was fine though as the rest of the session was much less 'impacty'

Thanks all

[Luke Owens]

Alex didn't you also fuck yourself doing finger training, or was that actually on a route/boulder? The point being you can injure yourself doing pretty much anything, either through misfortune or mistake. Get your point about risk, but.. don't agree really

I find it hard to believe it isn't instinctive for everyone to roll over after jumping down in order to reduce impact on joints.. but then I suppose I just have to think of watching how some people land after jumping down from the stone wall after walking out of the diamond. Like a sack of cement hitting the pavement.. looking at you Luke 

That'll be the weight of my ballooned forearms dragging me down after a Diamond sesh 

... I don't recall seeing you doing any ninja rolls though 

[powderpuff]

I have a back condition which flares up every now and again. I've noticed that concentrating on my posture at all times and making sure i regularly carry out exercises which counter act the rounding of the shoulders which is cased by bouldering makes a big difference.

[petejh]

... I don't recall seeing you doing any ninja rolls though 

By their very nature you don't 'see' a ninja roll.   

[Sasquatch]

... I don't recall seeing you doing any ninja rolls though 

mmmm. i love sushi....

[DAVETHOMAS90]

I don't want to convince anyone to deadlift, because it's like trying to convince someone that they should fall in love

Only from you Lore! 

And yes to everything else you said.

The takeaway from this thread appears to be, if you want to "Train power without ruining your back", .. then train power, and not mileage 

Seriously though, remember, training power is not about what you climb (pull, press or whatever) but how you do it. It's about climbing Powerfully! The issues here are a compound of problems falling/jumping off/landing, and possibly not isolating the specifics of what you want to train.

I've found "inverted deadlifts" a great way of working the movement, core, body tension etc without the perhaps more injurious lifting of iron:



Not me btw.

[Nibile]