[Durbs]

Possibly a shitstorm in a tea-cup, but Joe Kinder has kind of been outed as a bit of a misogynistic, fat-shaming bully by Sasha DG and Courtney Sanders...

Doesn't look too pretty from the outside, and he's kind of apologised for past behaviour, but interesting (in a car-crash kind of way) to see various climbers-of-note weighing in on both sides...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BiVS-kjBw3q/?hl=en&taken-by=joekinder

https://www.instagram.com/p/BiU1UJQAusi/?taken-by=sashadigiulian

https://www.instagram.com/p/BiVj9XAnMSv/?hl=en&taken-by=courtneyasanders

[remus]

Surprised you missed out the choss collective opinion piece https://www.instagram.com/p/BiWO-iuDdGY

[jwi]

When is it appropriate to tell someone that they are fat and ugly?

[Durbs]

There's definitely history there - but perhaps suggesting someone who previously has had eating disorders is massively overweight goes beyond banter.

[teestub]

+1 to you just for the title

[Will Hunt]

Surprised you missed out the choss collective opinion piece https://www.instagram.com/p/BiWO-iuDdGY

There's plenty of satirical Twitter and Instagram accounts out there which poke fun at the more risible behaviours that climbers engage in. I haven't looked at Joe Kinder's stuff, but if it amounts to just sending people messages telling them they're fat or they have a big forehead it's just pathetic. It's not even funny - there's no wit there at all.

This, on the other hand, made me laugh:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BhyHR4PDNnH/

[Johnny Brown]

Maybe I'm too far away from this but I'm struggling to see that bikini pic as a serious dig at SG's weight. Presumably there was worse?

[Doylo]

Black Diamond have dropped him and he’s deleted his insta.

[T_B]

I’m surprised at the level of outcry towards BD for dropping him (on IG). But then misogyny and bullying is a more accepted part of the culture in the US than in Europe, I suspect.

Good job BD and respect to whoever made the call.

[teestub]

Maybe I'm too far away from this but I'm struggling to see that bikini pic as a serious dig at SG's weight. Presumably there was worse?

I’m assuming it was the text that went with the picture that was the issue.

[gme]

I am possibly in the minority but just find all this laughable.
I grew up with piss taking and still live with it and enjoy it now.
These people use social media to promote them selves and seem to take it all very seriously. The level of promotion is sickening pictures of over-caffeinated sugary drink company, posh flapjack or 15 types of balm for different types of grease constantly pumped out usually in a very unsubtle cheesy manner. They deserve to have the piss ripped out of them mercilessly.
Boss eyes, height, fatness, hair colour,big foreheads, weight etc etc  all fair game to me.
However only if you know the person. If you don’t it’s not fair game.
Just another step to make climbing into a sacrine sweet sugar coated Disney sport.
Social media needs more of it, especially Instagram which is generally just vomit worthy.

[jwi]

You can always unfollow a self promotor. And for sure, take the piss out of them if you want, but this world need fewer men who judge women by their appearance, not more, and the world needs no one calling people with a history of eating disorders fat. Unconsolidated messages calling someone ugly is also quite out of order. If two were willing to step forward in public, I'd assume that he's done the same to many others.

Men calling women ugly in public is reinforcing a patriarchal power structure, were women are silenced and taught that only their looks give them worth. It is well known (I can give references to studies to anyone doesn't know how google scholar works) that women are less likely to speak in situations where they suspect that they then will be judged by their appearance (no such effect is found for men – so hold the false equivalences).

Taking the piss out of someone who's bragging about multipitch routes she's been dragged up by her stronger partner, without judging her looks, is not exactly challenging.

[gme]

I don’t think you should differentiate between men and women but both should be open to piss taking equally.
Seem ok for politicians to be called the worst names under the sun And we think it’s funny.
I call my fat mates fat and my skinny mates call me fat. Not going to cry about it as I could loose a few pounds.
If you self publicise I think it should be a two way street.

[gme]

I however would not say anything online I would say to someone’s face which I think is the issue at the minute.

[ferret]

Joe's a very talented climber, but it's been a while since he could hold his own with best of the best. As such I imagine his sponsorship hinges a lot on his online presence. More the "brand ambassador" than sponsored hero. As such you need to take care to elevate yourself above the socially accepted norms, as in this case those norms are often rightly up for debate. Worth remembering that what constitutes acceptable banter is quite different in the US compared to the UK

[abarro81]

+1 to gme's post

[andy popp]

+1 to JWI's

[Paul B]

The level of promotion is sickening pictures of over-caffeinated sugary drink company...

Is it just me who wonders if the people sponsored by these brands actually consume said over-caffeinated sugary drinks? Or whether the fact that they don't (or certainly less often than you'll find one in their IG posts) bothers them at all?

+1 to gme's post

I'm so glad you said this.

[gme]

Abarro81 is one of the nasty people who called me fat.

[Doylo]

Sportiva have dropped him. He’ll have to do his IRATA now ...

[teestub]

As per Doylo’s post https://instagram.com/p/BifQnytA59P/ the ‘acting professionally’ bit is quite key.

GME if you found one of your employees had an Instagram account where he’d been calling coworkers fat slags, would that be ok with you?

[SEDur]

Edit: on second thought, the above post is correct

[gme]

[quote

GME if you found one of your employees had an Instagram account where he’d been calling coworkers fat slags, would that be ok with you?
[/quote]
I have had to deal with this a number of times but totally different to this. This is a public figure using social media to promote themselves.
People who don’t agree with me on here, that I already guessed would out number me, do you think that the name calling and general nastiness that goes on with politicians is acceptable. It would appear many do yet when it’s some poor little climber it’s not right.
What about franky Boyle. Does it become ok to poke fun at people and call them names if it’s funny. Or is it ok if most don’t like the person like say Jeremy Hunt.

[gme]

I can get how calling some one fat who has an eating disorder ( no idea if this is the case) is possibly going to far but the other complaint related to someone having a big forehead. If you getting yourself upset about that you really do need to get a grip.

[teestub]

So you agree that because it’s someone for whom instagram is essentially their place of work, it is unacceptable or not? I got a bit confused.

Do you mean the general public calling politicians names, or what passes for debate that goes on in the House of Commons? Both appear childish and don’t achieve a great deal.