[abarro81]

I'm interested in people's thoughts on consistency vs variety. Thinking strength training here - how much have people got good/bad/indifferent results sticking with, say, the same structure to their fingerboard workouts for extended periods of time (like 8+ weeks rather than switching something up after 4 weeks)? Obviously within the workout structure you might be increasing the weight you're hanging with each week, I'm just thinking hang times, rest times, no of hangs, that kind of thing.
Any thoughts from the strong?

[Nibile]

Any thoughts from the strong dedicated?

First of all, I've never fingerboarded in "blocks" of x weeks, I've just fingerboarded for the whole time, so probably my experience isn't very helpful.
Within the last years, since buying the BM (2010), I switched from two hour long sessions to half an hour sessions. I saw a lot of progress.
My first sessions were like 6x10" hangs on basically each hold x6. I cycled the holds to have more rest between identical prehensions. I immediately found out my back2 were ridiculously weak.
Then I started doing also "PE sessions" with 30" hangs, or even 1' hangs, or circuits (hangs, lock offs, pull ups).
With time I cut the number of holds and progressively the number of sets, getting to 3 sets. he
At the time I had progressed to one arm hangs on most holds.
It wasn't until I tweaked things again that I started serious improvement.
The new sessions were basically simple two handed hangs with added weight on every hold, cycled. 3 sets were more than enough. I went up to adding 12 kg to every prehension, with the most challenging being index and ring monos, slopey pockets, 45° and small pockets back2.
I felt like I was overlooking the crimp.
Training the crimp on the BM isn't easy.
So I made a new crimp session that I perform on the system board and on the BM.
On the BM I warm up, then I do front2 full crimp on small rung; middle2 half crimp on small rung. 2 sets max hangs. Then on the system, one arm hangs full crimp on decent edges.
Then on the system, one foot on, one arm static hangs with added weight, full crimp.
Then on the system, one foot on campusing with added weight, full crimp.
All max hangs.

The usual BM session is now dedicated to half crimp and openhanding.
Back3 on incut rung, one max hang, one submax hang, incomplete rest in between, x3.
Half crimp on incut rung with added weight. 1 hang super max.
Monos combinations on index and middle. Pinky are useless: hyper painful and they're so small that they don't catch the hold and slide out. Embarassing.
One arm monos on index and middle.
2 sets or more depending on feel. All max and all with a serious shoulder and elbow engagement.
Checked that now I can two arms hang index and ring monos with 20 kg on, easily.

I want to alternate these two session at the beginning of every microcycle (one week). So I tend to do each session twice in a month, but with board climbing, weights, time available, Summer temps, it's not easy. I found out that even with big lay offs, like 4/5 weeks, I kept the gains or even improved in both sessions.
So, I find that you have to be consistent in variety. Changing regularly - not chaotically - but sticking at it.
Short sessions, few sets, long rests, max hangs.
I tested the PE at the end of a session, and despite skin issues and exploding forearms, the holds felt like jugs.
HTH.

[Luke Owens]

My forearms just exploded from reading your post Nibs...

[abarro81]

I found out that even with big lay offs, like 4/5 weeks, I kept the gains or even improved in both sessions.

Ha. We are very different - after 4/5 weeks off something like fingerboarding I'm usually totally crap at it, even if I've been bouldering all that time!

I guess my question is more this:
now that you have these 2 hangs sessions that you like, what are your views on keeping them the same and just alternating them every 2 weeks for months on end (adding weight as desired/required) vs. coming up with totally new sessions after a few months using those ones... ?

[Stu Littlefair]

Is this during a phase of pure strength training, or fitting in with a larger program of endurance work?

For the former, since progress on the fingerboard is quantifiable I'd be tempted to stick with one regime until you could see signs of a plateau, and then change it up.

Personally I'd consider alternating "base" phases (e.g. Anderson style repeaters with kg) with "peak" phases (e.g CWP max hangs or possibly Eva Lopez style hangs). Add a week or two rest at the end of the peak phase.

[Nibile]

I found out that even with big lay offs, like 4/5 weeks, I kept the gains or even improved in both sessions.

Ha. We are very different - after 4/5 weeks off something like fingerboarding I'm usually totally crap at it, even if I've been bouldering all that time!

I guess my question is more this:
now that you have these 2 hangs sessions that you like, what are your views on keeping them the same and just alternating them every 2 weeks for months on end (adding weight as desired/required) vs. coming up with totally new sessions after a few months using those ones... ?

Hmmm...
I'd say I stick with them mainly for two reasons.
I've seen really good progress. Both sessions are still capable of giving me serious Doms in forearms and that amazing feeling in your hand and fingers that tell you you've really worked hard.
I don't do them as often as to plateau anytime soon. One every fortnight or more. So, with little frequency, I think that changing too much could be detrimental. Also, in terms of prehensions, these sessions work everything.
Then, it's all max hangs. So maybe I would like to insert some PE sessions, mainly foot on campusing, but I can lap problems for that.
I absolutely cannot increase volume neither intensity. Increasing volume would mean less intensity and that's something I don't want to do.
Also, factor in that I only climb on a 53 degrees board with little screw ons for feet, so I can't do easy sessions on that. Every bouldering session is quite intense on fingers.
But on the other hand I'm open to suggestions.
The other thing is that I have little time and cannot afford big sessions and lots of experimenting.

[Sasquatch]

My forearms just exploded from reading your post Nibs...

Mine too...

Barrows -

...usual "not an expert" caveat...

I've found similar to you that after 4-5 weeks off of FBing, I come back feeling quite weak.  However, the progress is usually quite fast so that I'm quickly back to max strength.  If I were training more for events that would be fine, but as I'm not and I want to be strong fit all the time (don't we all), it's less than optimal.  Secondarily, I am looking at a longer view to the whole process, and want to continue getting stronger for at least the next 5 years. 

Based on that I've redeveloped my program to be a continuous 4 week cycle - 3 weeks of progression followed by a deloading week.  The 1st week is higher volume, and lower intensity than week 2 of the previous cycle.  The second week should be close to the same intensity as week 2 of the previous cycle with a bit more volume, and week three should be an improvement in Max.  I should also mention that I'm doing more than FBing on this same cycle.  Wtd Pullups, Wtd Rows, Campusing, Core, Shoulder, otheer Wts, bouldering and Climbing are all included each week.   

I'm only into the second cycle though, so I can't speak to how it will do in the long run.  So far it feel good and I'm seeing good strength gains.  I'm approaching it much like Stu said, and will be watching carefully for any plateau's.  If I plateau for two cycles, I'll probably switch it up.  I decided to go down this route as it fits my overall life balance, while hopefully continuing to get stronger/better at climbing

[bendavison]

Personally I'd consider alternating "base" phases (e.g. Anderson style repeaters with kg) with "peak" phases (e.g CWP max hangs or possibly Eva Lopez style hangs). Add a week or two rest at the end of the peak phase.

This makes most sense to me. I reckon 4-6 weeks where the majority of sessions are of the same/similar structure, then rest then change structure. If you have enough time then throw in a session a week which is different. E.g 4-6 weeks repeaters/Anderson style 2 sessions a wk plus 1 max hang sesh. Hit the board, then repeat with more focus on short hangs. Maybe...

[tommy_k]

Nibile, that sounds quite impressive! 
Ever have troubles with your fingers (pulleys, capsules, tendons) with such a high intensity program?

Checked that now I can two arms hang index and ring monos with 20 kg on, easily.

The small monos? 

[abarro81]

Personally I'd consider alternating "base" phases (e.g. Anderson style repeaters with kg) with "peak" phases (e.g CWP max hangs or possibly Eva Lopez style hangs). Add a week or two rest at the end of the peak phase.

This makes most sense to me. I reckon 4-6 weeks where the majority of sessions are of the same/similar structure, then rest then change structure. If you have enough time then throw in a session a week which is different. E.g 4-6 weeks repeaters/Anderson style 2 sessions a wk plus 1 max hang sesh. Hit the board, then repeat with more focus on short hangs. Maybe...

So this is what I was counting as 'variety'. The tricky thing with it is that it's hard to fit with weekend climbing as I can't really do multiple Anderson sessions midweek, and I'm not sure about doing max hang sessions multiple days in a row or 3rd day on (again midweek). Maybe I just need to be dedicated and do some hanging on Sundays as well as climbing.. The alternative is something like 1 max hang and 1 Anderson session per week, but then I was struggling to decide whether it'd need changing up every month or so or not. Perhaps best to just switch if stagnation occurs with that method. Will do some more thinking..

Cheers all!

[Nibile]

Nibile, that sounds quite impressive! 
Ever have troubles with your fingers (pulleys, capsules, tendons) with such a high intensity program?

Checked that now I can two arms hang index and ring monos with 20 kg on, easily.

The small monos? 

Yes, the small monos.
I've had my fair share of injuries and niggles (last one yesterday night...) but mostly from being an idiot.
 

[Pako]

I too find that the best approach for fingerboarding is to stick to a good high intensity regime and do it once every week or more, and occasionally twice a week, then rest for a while. Of course while I am resting from fingerboarding, I am bouldering more, so when I get back to the BM my fingers are stronger than before. I find that fingerboarding is most useful to gauge how my strength is progressing, and to work on weaker areas like back 2 and slopers. The place that I actually make my fingers stronger is my board though. It is just nice to see quantifiable signs of progress by hopping on the beastmaker and seeing how long I can one arm hang some edges.

[bendavison]

Since you've got what Nic coined acquired strength deficiency syndrome, why not try max hang tues and sat or sun and Anderson style on thurs? Add in Wednesday motherboard sessions and Oz ain't gonna know what's hit it! Other than a fatty.

That way allows a fair bit of variety when needed too. Max hangs could be Eva Lopez style, CWP style, nibile style etc etc...

[Nibile]

nibile style etc etc...

Hopefully you mean this

[bendavison]

Exactly


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[abarro81]

Yeah, Max hangs Tues nn Anderson Thurs is currently on the prog. I'll start doing some hang-boulder weekend combos like in the winter I think too