[cha1n]

Can anyone offer a rough estimate of what it costs to do the following conversions to a Sheffield 2 bedroom terrace:

- Convert attic to a bedroom with a Velux on each side and proper stairway.
- Convert cellar to a usable room that isn't a damp hole.

Just wondering if anyone has had this done reasonably recently, if not I'll get in touch with a local builder perhaps and see what they quote. This is more for assessing the rough value of a property, not for doing myself (yet).

Cheers!

[shark]

Can anyone offer a rough estimate of what it costs to do the following conversions to a Sheffield 2 bedroom terrace:

- Convert attic to a bedroom with a Velux on each side and proper stairway.
- Convert cellar to a usable room that isn't a damp hole.

Just wondering if anyone has had this done reasonably recently, if not I'll get in touch with a local builder perhaps and see what they quote. This is more for assessing the rough value of a property, not for doing myself (yet).

Cheers!

If done to building regs a proper stairway to the attic in a 2 bedder wouldn't usually be worth it as the stairwelll would rob too much room from the first floor - also the joists would have to strengthened raising the floor height and the ceiling height lowered to incorporate the insulation thereby minimising the usable space. Maybe budget £10-15K.

A usable cellar as a further bedroom say would likely require the floor lowering, foundation walls underpinning, dampproof membrane  system with maybe an underfloor pump. Maybe budget £15-20K.

Above assumes building regs. If done without, cutting corners and cash in hand to a cheap builder a lot less but it will cause problems when reselling if you don't have the buiding regs certificate.       

[tomtom]

Often have to put in rsj's to support loft extn and fireproofing now.

[cha1n]

Thanks for the comments, that's really useful.

It's interesting looking at a few of the terraces that come up that have the attics done but are still listed as 2 bedroom, I assume that's because it's not been done to regs.

Regarding the cellar, I meant converted to a standard where you could store stuff in it without it going mouldy in a few months (like our current cellar in our rented house), certainly wouldn't want to use it as a normal room.

It's crazy looking at some houses in S8 that were bought 4-5 years ago for circa. £80k and they are now selling them for £125-130k. Seems a bit greedy for 4 years, even if that have spent 20k on it doing it up. Still, I shouldn't complain too much, it's still great value compared to Bristol (where I'm from)!

[butters]

I suspect the attic will be listed as a boarded out or something along those lines so there is no building regs applicable. It can't officially be registered as a bedroom but you could use it as one should you wish.

House prices are mental at the minute - since the changes in stamp duty there is no longer the ceiling that existed at 125K and prices have altered accordingly. House around Meersbrook are now going on the market at close to 140k now whereas a year ago they would have been 125k or just under.

Just glad I bought my house late last year.     

[cha1n]

Ha, yeh you got lucky there butters.

It makes me angry at my gf for turning down my suggestion that we go look at a 3 bed terrace that backed onto meersbrook park and was on for 105k early in the year. Needed too much doing apparently but would easily go for 140k atm if it'd had 15k spent on it.

[a dense loner]

With regard to house prices being mental, they're only mental if it's somewhere "desirable". In other areas of Shef they can't give them away. It's like every other city in that respect. Decent houses in these "desirable" areas sell within a week. Caveat I'm talking about 100-150k houses

[lagerstarfish]

It's crazy looking at some houses in S8 that were bought 4-5 years ago for circa. £80k and they are now selling them for £125-130k. Seems a bit greedy for 4 years, even if that have spent 20k on it doing it up.

doing a significant bit of work in one of these terraced houses takes over the whole house and makes life pretty hard for a while - it's challenging for anyone with kids to do this on a house they live in - it's those families who need the extra space, so they're stuck with competing for converted properties

also - often, those families don't have the spare cash, spare time to earn more cash or the borrowing capacity to do a conversion, relying on what the mortgage companies will lend - who are more willing to lend for properties in good condition

don't underestimate the disruption to your life while building work is going on

[Paul B]

It's crazy looking at some houses in S8 that were bought 4-5 years ago for circa. £80k and they are now selling them for £125-130k. Seems a bit greedy for 4 years, even if that have spent 20k on it doing it up. Still, I shouldn't complain too much, it's still great value compared to Bristol (where I'm from)!

Why is this greedy?

[tomtom]

It's crazy looking at some houses in S8 that were bought 4-5 years ago for circa. £80k and they are now selling them for £125-130k. Seems a bit greedy for 4 years, even if that have spent 20k on it doing it up. Still, I shouldn't complain too much, it's still great value compared to Bristol (where I'm from)!

Why is this greedy?

Between 2000 and 2005 many house prices in the UK near doubled (or more) - trying to think of a place where this didn't happen tbh...

[cha1n]

Why is this greedy?

Let's take one house I was looking at for example, they paid £80k for it at the end of 2011 (when the asking price was 80-90), so they got a good deal. Admittedly it was a state inside, looks like they had to decorate every room and they've converted the attic - though it seems not to regs. I'm trying to work out how much that may have cost, guess at 20k? 25k? And that depends on whether one of them is a carpenter, or has friends who can do work cheap, maybe it cost them a lot less to do. So they make 25-30k profit in 4 years? I don't know, it just seems an insane amount.

I've also just read up on LTVs and seems like it's going to be a big problem here in Sheffield, where it appears to be normal to bid over the asking price because I've only just got enough deposit to get a 90% LTV and then the Mortgage company comes in and says nope, that's not worth what you've offered... Bloody houses!

[rodma]

Why is this greedy?

Let's take one house I was looking at for example, they paid £80k for it at the end of 2011 (when the asking price was 80-90), so they got a good deal. Admittedly it was a state inside, looks like they had to decorate every room and they've converted the attic - though it seems not to regs. I'm trying to work out how much that may have cost, guess at 20k? 25k? And that depends on whether one of them is a carpenter, or has friends who can do work cheap, maybe it cost them a lot less to do. So they make 25-30k profit in 4 years? I don't know, it just seems an insane amount.

I've also just read up on LTVs and seems like it's going to be a big problem here in Sheffield, where it appears to be normal to bid over the asking price because I've only just got enough deposit to get a 90% LTV and then the Mortgage company comes in and says nope, that's not worth what you've offered... Bloody houses!

still nothing to do with greed, it's to do with what people are prepared to spend and what they are prepared to spend is what the current value is.

[cha1n]

still nothing to do with greed, it's to do with what people are prepared to spend and what they are prepared to spend is what the current value is.

It's quite hard to work out what current value is though, because from what I've heard, nobody is getting houses for the asking price (in the areas I'm looking).

If I knew how the mortgage providers valued the house then I could look at trying to work out what's going on but I haven't quite figured that out yet! Anyway, appreciate the info, getting a bit now. Will start a separate thread if I want to rant further!

[a dense loner]

The only value a house has is what someone is prepared to pay for it. If you're looking at something priced 120k in an area where people want to live then you're going to have a hell of a lot of competition. The only way to separate the competition is very basically offer more money than the next person, you do this by either being cash rich, a big deposit, or a first time buyer but even this doesn't count for that much anymore. People always want to buy for the lowest possible price and sell for the highest possible price.
Why would you need to know how a mortgage provider values the house? How does this affect your judgement? They'll value it at 120k, they'll market it at this if 3 people really want it the price will go up til someone will pay 140k (for instance), this increase of 20k may affect you if you can't afford it. Ie the bank still values the house at 120k, it's up to you then to sort out the shortfall. In other words the bank will not lend you 140k for something they deem to be only worth 120k

[dave]

The only greed is by the banks who are/were keen to lend massive amounts knowing long term they make cash on the interest, and greed by estate agents knowing they're paid a percentage so do anything to jack prices up. When demand outstrips supply, which it does in the nice areas on city's like Sheffield then prices go up, especially if banks will lend to allow it. You think its greedy on the part of the vendors? When someone sells their terrace and "makes" £25-40k (has happened to me twice) where do you think that money goes? Unless they die, downsize or move to a cheaper dares it just goes in to the next house. You never see that money.

In contrast to this, most estate agents on a percentage are making about 10x the money on fees on the same house that they were say 15 years ago, for doing the same or less work.

[cha1n]

Why would you need to know how a mortgage provider values the house? How does this affect your judgement? They'll value it at 120k, they'll market it at this if 3 people really want it the price will go up til someone will pay 140k (for instance), this increase of 20k may affect you if you can't afford it. Ie the bank still values the house at 120k, it's up to you then to sort out the shortfall. In other words the bank will not lend you 140k for something they deem to be only worth 120k

Well you asked and answered my question in the same paragraph.

If I want a 90%LTV mortgage on a 120k house and have 10% deposit (just) but the mortgage providers says no, it's worth 110k on the same LTV then there's a shortfall of 9k which someone in my position can't make up and you don't find out until you put in an offer and had a survey (so I've just wasted a chunk of potential deposit on a wasted survey - maybe more).

Surely it's better to save people the bother and advertise it for 140k if that's what it's worth.

[cha1n]

You don't have to encourage me to hate banks and estate agents, Dave, I already do! One of the reasons I hate looking around houses is that I have to interact with an estate agent. I just thought it was greed on everyone's part really, some more than others of course.

[T_B]

A mate 'sold' his house on Wath Rd in S7 recently for £27K over the asking price. Ended up being only £19K over as the buyer's lender wouldn't value it at the amount they bid. The closed bid system in Sheffield is a scam by estate agents, which exploits sellers' greed.

[Jaspersharpe]

You can always ask for a second opinion from the valuers too. If you can prove that other "similar" properties have sold for the higher price then they may back down and go with the higher value.

This happened to us with the flat we bought in West One which was classed as a studio because there was no partition wall but was twice the size of other studio flats there. The valuation was clearly done by a moron who just looked at the layout rather than the area and who valued it lower than a tiny studio we had previously looked at. We argued the toss based on prices of other flats, condition and sq ft and they backed down and went with the proper valuation.

This was only possible because my mortgage advisor is a top bloke and it was the first time an estate agent (and Blundells no less) was actually helpful.

Worth knowing anyway.

[Paul B]

On that note, Shark pointed me towards his mortgage advisor and he was bloody brilliant (probably the best bit of the whole process for me). Consider having someone like that on your side as I'm convinced he will likely hold more sway than say yourself.

Also, I don't think you can simply look at buy for X spend Y sell for Z and class any 'profit' as greed. Even managing others doing such work is a PITA and time consuming (and fairly disruptive to how you live in the property, without kids).

[shark]

still nothing to do with greed, it's to do with what people are prepared to spend and what they are prepared to spend is what the current value is.

I think it is useful to differentiate between price and value. Price is what you pay and value is what you get (borrowed quote). Value is underpinned by metrics such as socio-economic affluence/income of an area, access to good schools, size of house and plot etc. Get sucked into the "I am missing the boat" mentality and you could end up making an overly emotive decision and saddled with a depreciating asset for a number of years. Just a word of caution - not advice.

[rodma]

still nothing to do with greed, it's to do with what people are prepared to spend and what they are prepared to spend is what the current value is.

I think it is useful to differentiate between price and value. Price is what you pay and value is what you get (borrowed quote). Value is underpinned by metrics such as socio-economic affluence/income of an area, access to good schools, size of house and plot etc. Get sucked into the "I am missing the boat" mentality and you could end up making an overly emotive decision and saddled with a depreciating asset for a number of years. Just a word of caution - not advice.

i get your point, but in Scotland the school catchmemnt thing has changed (as in it doesn't matter where you live anymore, this would likely have an effect on Sheff prices in certain streets/postcodes if the same thing happens), hence affecting the price or value or whetever you want to call it, it still comes down to what someone is willing to pay. there is always inherent risk in atempting to assess (or bank upon) any given value at any point in time.

[galpinos]

It's crazy looking at some houses in S8 that were bought 4-5 years ago for circa. £80k and they are now selling them for £125-130k. Seems a bit greedy for 4 years, even if that have spent 20k on it doing it up. Still, I shouldn't complain too much, it's still great value compared to Bristol (where I'm from)!

The street behind me (I live in SW Manchester) has 2 bed terraces going for £320K so count yourself lucky! I think we've been priced out of moving up the cha1n, even if our house jumped by 10%, the bigger houses will have have gone up by 10% as well, which is unfortunately, more than we could afford.

(As an aside, I was always told a loft conversion is the only modification you never loose money on.)

[shark]

even if our house jumped by 10%, the bigger houses will have have gone up by 10% as well, which is unfortunately, more than we could afford.

House prices for bigger houses dont always move in step in % terms as small ones.

Also the power of leverage means that you can potentially borrow more.

Illustration:

Buy £200K house with 10% deposit of £20K. Price appreciates 10% = £40K equity ie you have doubled your money

Larger house formerly unaffordable worth £350K requiring £35K deposit now worth 10% more at £385K requiring £38.5K deposit which you can afford.   

[SA Chris]

The closed bid system in Sheffield is a scam by estate agents, which exploits sellers' greed.

Adopted from the Scottish way Plus side is we have no chains though!