[cha1n]

I've never really been in the situation where I've had to share a route before (except with my partner of course), so I'm intrigued to know what the standard etiquette is for sharing routes.

Example in question, I wanted to try Powerplant yesterday at the cornice and there was a party on the route when I arrived. I immediately approached them and asked politely if they'd mind if I squeezed in some goes between them and said they would only be short 10-15 minute goes as I'd been on the route Tuesday, so knew it quite well. The guy belaying said he was sure we could work a system out. Well, the system turned out to be that they stayed on the route for the next 4 hours without letting me have a go. As in, I was making sure I was around each time one of them lowered off but they just avoided eye-contact and swapped straight over. They were like machines, never ate or anything. I eventually got annoyed and went over to ask about having a go about 3 hours in and they guy said he was having one more go and an hour later they eventually got off it. The one kind gesture was that they offered to swap my draws over with theirs but in all fairness, it wouldn't have taken me long to do and it was probably quicker than them stripping it.

What would the UKB collective have done in this situation? I was there on Tuesday evening and someone asked if they could have a go on the route (I'd put the draws in and was resting). Of course I said yes and we just swapped leads, equally someone asked if they could try it yesterday after I eventually got on and again, I had no problem them get on it between goes.

My instincts tell me that these guys were being a bit out of order. My climbing partner said that he would have said something much sooner if it had been a route he wanted to try.

[ghisino]

I think it is somehow crag dependent.

I mostly have experienced the above situation in céüse where everybody expects it anyway. Always managed reasonably apart from one time it was awful crowded and every second route had a party waiting to climb it already.

Recently it was funnier in tarn, this guy had draws on the route for a few days... He comes in just when I was ready for a redpoint.
I ask I it's his draws and if he wants to have a go, he says "yes".
Then he hesitates for half an hour until I ask if he will try "now" and he says "you can go first"

Anyway, my personal etiquette:
-the draws owner is the master.
-brush, brush, brush.
-don't spend ages dogging the route on your 1st go, prepare by looking carefully at other people's attempts, ask and discuss beta.
-share good beta if you know it, especially when a dogging climber needs/asks it.
-be open on rest and attempt times.
-offer a belay if you have nothing better to do.

[Snoops]

I've never really been in the situation where I've had to share a route before (except with my partner of course), so I'm intrigued to know what the standard etiquette is for sharing routes.

Example in question, I wanted to try Powerplant yesterday at the cornice and there was a party on the route when I arrived. I immediately approached them and asked politely if they'd mind if I squeezed in some goes between them and said they would only be short 10-15 minute goes as I'd been on the route Tuesday, so knew it quite well. The guy belaying said he was sure we could work a system out. Well, the system turned out to be that they stayed on the route for the next 4 hours without letting me have a go. As in, I was making sure I was around each time one of them lowered off but they just avoided eye-contact and swapped straight over. They were like machines, never ate or anything. I eventually got annoyed and went over to ask about having a go about 3 hours in and they guy said he was having one more go and an hour later they eventually got off it. The one kind gesture was that they offered to swap my draws over with theirs but in all fairness, it wouldn't have taken me long to do and it was probably quicker than them stripping it.

What would the UKB collective have done in this situation? I was there on Tuesday evening and someone asked if they could have a go on the route (I'd put the draws in and was resting). Of course I said yes and we just swapped leads, equally someone asked if they could try it yesterday after I eventually got on and again, I had no problem them get on it between goes.

My instincts tell me that these guys were being a bit out of order. My climbing partner said that he would have said something much sooner if it had been a route he wanted to try.

You've asked nicely. If you were free at some of the lower offs, common decent should let you jump on at a break, even if it was a break they didn't want.
Me personally if you were working it I'd invite you into our group as long as you did a bit of belaying. In summary I agree OOO

[tomtom]

Sounds like they're being arseholes to me.. But hey - there's all sorts of people out there..

[Teaboy]

Anyway, my personal etiquette:
-the draws owner is the master.

I disagree, I'd tend to give someone redpointing priority as do most others it seems. Other that normal levels of decency and manners are all that are required.

[shurt]

But hey - there's all sorts of people out there..

Too true, sadly a large proportion of them appear to be arseholes...

[TobyD]

I disagree, I'd tend to give someone redpointing priority as do most others it seems. Other that normal levels of decency and manners are all that are required.

I'd agree with redpoint gets right of way.  The guys in question (I was at the crag) were obviously being obstructive; and this might be understandable if they were nearly doing it and on a time limit, but they were a) getting nowhere and b) there for hours

In reply to original post; I'd have been a lot more 'assertive' (ruder, possibly) and asked calmly if i could have a go before it got dark, or something

[shark]

 

[lagerstarfish]

southerners

[Snoops]

southerners

 

[tomtom]

southerners

Chesterfield?

[ghisino]

The "draws owner" thing makes sense for the common situation @holiday crags.
Somehow climbers are attracted by routes having draws already in...
It is just so convenient and less shameful than stick-clipping that run out crux...therefore I find it normal to encourage/reward the draws owner... 

On weekend crags where the draws are stripped at the end of the day, I see the redpoint point"

[AlistairB]

southerners

 

Had the same thing on Powerplant with some Londoners actually! Some people are just dicks.

On a happier note, there were 6 of us on Supercool this Sat (if you were thinking about it, it's a shit route, go somewhere else instead ) and whilst that's never ideal, everyone was really considerate and we all had a few good goes and shared some beta and laughs. We gave priority to the two guys on redpoint, think that's just common sense really.

[cha1n]

Thanks for the comments people. I think I'll be a bit more forward in future but I suppose at the end of the day it's their hardware on the route. It's one of those things that you'd step in and just take your go if someone was hogging and indoor route but hardware when you'll be climbing on their gear.

The guys in question (I was at the crag) were obviously being obstructive; and this might be understandable if they were nearly doing it and on a time limit, but they were a) getting nowhere and b) there for hours

Yeh, hard to say how they were getting on as I had a bit of a nightmare on it on on my first session (i.e. I probably looked just as bad on Tues) but had done all the moves by the end of my 2nd session on Sat. Don't think there was any excuse for the guy who was seconding it though, what was that all about? I'm the biggest wuss going on a rope (hence feeling a bit sketchy on Clarion earlier in the session) and even I work it on lead apart from maybe needing a clipstick to get the 4th in if too tired to do the crux. The top section wouldn't be unreasonable to toprope though.

Agree about a route with draws in being more appealing to some people to have no pressure goes, I think the young lad who tried it on Sat was guilty of that but in all fairness to him, he was very pleasant and said he'd brush the holds inbetween goes. Can't say fairer than that!

Funnily enough Alistair, I think the only time I've ever had the pleasure of leading up someone I didn't knows route was when Lisa had got the clips in Free Monster recently (thanks again). I think her words before I even mentioned what route I wanted to try was that I should have a go at the route she was on. Normal, friendly response.

[moose]

"do as you would be done by" seems to cover most bases.  All other things being equal, priority to the early bird who went to the  trouble of rigging the route.  But, if someone is having RP burns, priority clearly goes to them (crikey, at worst it's a 30 min delay - I need at least 1.5 hr between goes, the more enforced delay, the better).