[a dense loner]

Friends who've seen her recently have said she doesn't look healthy.

From that the camp that thinks there's no problem can take on board that she's eating properly and crushing everything due to her excellent training regime. While the other camp can try to feed her. Ferrero rochers used to be her fave but doesnt look like she's seen them for a while.

The main point of the above is that in the flesh she doesn't look healthy while the camera suggests she does! According to others

[Paul B]

Even Alex P, who posted a veiny, ripped, pumped selfie this morning looked pretty healthy around the face...

I disagree. Compare the face with her other pics on her profile.

[Nibile]

That pic is wrong on so many aspects.

[Oldmanmatt]

Fair enough, it's not as if I know her.

However, does taking a selfie and publicly stating "Hey, I look good and I'm proud of my body/achievements" speak of Body dysmorphia?

Overtraining is not the same as an ED, surely?

Personally, I'm not trying to say that there is no problem; only that the assertion that it is endemic, is probably false and certainly unproven (at least within this thread).
So, should an individual in fact be suffering from an ED, this alone does not prove an all pervasive unhealthy attitude throughout the sport.

The purpose of the photos earlier was to illustrate that it was perfectly possible to exhibit some of the visual cues for such a disorder, both before and after beginning to train seriously; without any such thing existing.

People used to ask if I'd picked up my muscles in a secondhand shop, because of the way they sat on my bones. I used to have to get my wetsuits made, because off the peg suits that fitted my upper body flapped around my legs like a circus tent.
And yet, I could squat my own body weight plus some, in the gym and run the Jungle at CTCRM and all the rest.

Sure, if you feel someone you know is heading down a dark road, get involved!
IMHO, an Ectomorph, who starts building muscle, doesn't turn into a Mesomorph, they turn into a slightly odd looking skin, bone and muscle beast; commonly known as wiry and not always considered to be desperately unhealthy of mentally ill.

[Danny]

Ste Mac and Adam Ondra don't look healthy.

Is it just me, or do photos of shredded or gaunty women tend to inspire this sort of commentary more than male equivalents? You'd have to argue hard to convince me that societal norms haven't seriously skewed perceptions of what is 'acceptable' in the male and female forms, regardless of the actual disparity in health risks that come with low weight.

I'm being purposefully flippant here, but:     

Some 8c gets a FFA: time to debate the grade

...is analogous to:

Women get shredded: time to debate EDs.


Maybe neither of these things are particularly true, but sometimes I get the impression that they are.

[Nibile]

Women get shredded: time to debate EDs.

Women genetically have a higer body fat percentage than men. That's why it's more strange to see a particularly ripped woman.

[mrjonathanr]

 Does starving yourself, to reach a specific goal, constitute an eating disorder?

I'm not a doctor, but obviously not.  Bulimia and anorexia are mental illnesses, both with a ~1/25 mortality rate IIRC.

Starvation dieting in and of itself is 'merely' disordered and unhealthy eating.

Illnesses and dependencies intertwine physical and psychological elements so the rub is that extreme dieting in the absence of a psychological disorder can pave the way the way for that disorder to develop just as a psychological need for a sensation of control can pave the way for an eating disorder as a mechanism to achieve it. So extreme dieting can become psychologically as well as physically dangerous.

Especially problematical in food deprivation is the deterioration in cognitive function which becomes more marked as bodyweight drops. As anorexia takes hold the capacity to reason properly starts to disappear, returning with weight gain.

I can't find the reference text to quote figures but I believe sub 60% normal weight is a tipping point.  Anorexia  exhibits similarly powerful mechanisms of dependency to drugs- the physical effects change the way the brain works, why wouldn't it?

Bulimia is equally hazardous to health (same morbidity IIRC) , just a different manifestation of the same set, with somewhatdifferent physical hazards. The two can morph into each other.

[Danny]

Women get shredded: time to debate EDs.

Women genetically have a higer body fat percentage than men. That's why it's more strange to see a particularly ripped woman.

I know. What I'm saying is that I don't think you can disentangle that from the mess that is societal (as opposed to strictly physiological) norms when you make a (subjective) judgement about the health of a woman based on her outward appearance.

[webbo]

Webbo, are you trying to say that someone with a problem is a lost cause?

No.
I was trying to get the point across that a climber who develops an eating disorder, would if they were not a climber. Probably still have some marked psychological issues.
For example Gazza would probably had issues even if had not been a Professional footballer, in fact I heard he had Bulimia as a young man.

[Nibile]

Women get shredded: time to debate EDs.

Women genetically have a higer body fat percentage than men. That's why it's more strange to see a particularly ripped woman.

I know. What I'm saying is that I don't think you can disentangle that from the mess that is societal (as opposed to strictly physiological) norms when you make a (subjective) judgement about the health of a woman based on her outward appearance.

I'm not implying that shredded women have ED.
I just told you why people think that they do. Seeing a girl with a six pack is a very rare thing, so when it happens people ask themselves questions, like they do when they see something unusual.

[Danny]

That pic is wrong on so many aspects.

Good to hear it. Given the above I had presumed otherwise. Apologies.

[Nibile]

No need for apologies.
In my reply to your post I was speaking in general terms about what the general perception of women's fat levels can be, and why, in my opinion.

[mark s]

i will add my 2 pennies worth of opinion.
a massive amount of climbers you see are painfully thin.
id personally drop a few grades and look like a normal bloke as opposed to  gawky 15 year old

[fatdoc]

Can I add, as middle aged git I dropped 7kg this year. Have started to train on my board again... And have really hit the free weights ( lat pull downs 30to 50kg, chest press 29 kg to 38), 12 rep max.. BUT the weights have given  me at least 50% of this weight loss.. Whilst really banging a high protien diet.. Much more relevant is I have gone from 5 pull ups to repeated reps of 12, with a 2.5 kg weight belt.

And I'm now back at solid grit 7a.

What does this mean? Fuck knows.

But shocking your body with new training methods is well know way to reward.

Just keep it varied...

And don't get fixated on weight. I'm gradually drifting up on the scales... But I'm improving my power t weight ability.


I've lost interest in my weight, I'm focused on a one armer... I'm nearly there!

[bendavison]

I have gone from 5 pull ups to repeated reps of 12, with a 2.5 kg weight belt.  ( )

And I'm now back at solid grit 7a.

What does this mean?

That being good at pull ups doesn't make you good at climbing  Sorry, couldn't resist. 

[lagerstarfish]

I have gone from 5 pull ups to repeated reps of 12, with a 2.5 kg weight belt.

What does this mean?

that you lost 2.5kg too much

it's OK though - Christmas is here to help with that

that lat pull-down figure seems odd against your pull up ability (I don't actually know what I'm talking about)

[Fiend]

I have gone from 5 pull ups to repeated reps of 12, with a 2.5 kg weight belt.  ( )

And I'm now back at solid grit 7a.

What does this mean?

That being good at pull ups doesn't make you good at climbing  Sorry, couldn't resist. 

Yup solid grit 7a is pretty good, and 12 pull-ups is fuck all for sub 70kg!

But LOL @ Lagers, exactly what I was thinking.

[fatdoc]

Yeah. I hear in the pull ups for climbing. When I was red pointing 8a I could only do about 4.

Good measure of overall power to weight though.

Will b useful for the tough mudder events of 2015 for sure

[StillTryingForTheTop]

I'm in a similar situation to fatdoc, having steadily lost 1lb/week for the last 15 weeks.

In order to achieve this my body must have been running with a calorie deficit, assuming that I am now at a "good weight" what should i use to offset set this deficit calorie-wise and when is the best time of the day/week to consume them?

I am guessing the beer/wine/chocolate/sugar items that I dropped are not what I should be resuming if I want to improve my climbing

[LB1782]

I am not a dietitian. However ...

Take a look at what you are now eating. Does it even out to resemble sensible healthy guidelines such as:

* palm sized portion of protein
* fist-sized portion of veg
* cupped hand of carbs 
* couple of thumbs of fat

in 3/4 meals per day?
(guidelines are very vague suggestion only, academics have punch ups over exact ratios)

If you are getting roughly the right amount of protein fat and carbs I'd slow increase (like 100 calories/week) your intake over time.

Prefer whole foods. If you do not currently feel satiated make the increase come preferentially from veg and protein.

[StillTryingForTheTop]

Yeah, pretty much evens out as a "normal" diet, cereal in the morning, snack sized hot meal at lunch eg chicken and rice, then full meal in the evening.
Currently can feel a bit hungry mid morning, but generally feel fine through the day and normally only when bored to I feel the need to snack.
Don't want to really lose any more weight, just want to maintain where I am

[petejh]

Best advice I've got is to explore a new faddy diet but ignore anything faddy about it - i.e. the Paleo diet but ignore the eating lots of red meat and 'avoiding anything processed at all' part. That way you get to try cooking really nice recipies with loads of healthy veg (sweet potatoes and broccoli are my fave), and by virtue of being loosely aligned to a 'healthy ideal' you tend to eat less refined sugar and processed crap but don't feel too bad about it when you do err.

edit: in other words, explore tasty recipies!

[Sasquatch]

edit: in other words, explore tasty recipies!

I find french style food tasty, and I'm pretty sure there's very little healthy about the ones I like.  Loads of butter and various forms of rich fat....   

[fatdoc]

Just made a fish pie, with loads of tasty healthy fish, now swathed in a classic French white sauce.. 50g butter/50g flour to each pint of milk, that was used to poach the smoked haddock in.. With added two teaspoons of mustard and a glass of white wine...

Oh, amd it's capped with roughly mashed potatoes.

Steamed carrots ( and peas in the pie) on the side for veggies. This issue isn't really the food, but the fact it rates SOOO darn good I know I'll need to be restrained not east enough where breathing becomes inhibited.

Portion sizes, my downfall.

I'll bust out some freeweights to justify the meal first.

[fried]

That only qualifies as French food if you cook the peas in butter, sugar and salt. Steaming FFS.