[Fiend]

This may or may not be an interesting topic. If it isn't, please hit your browser's back button ASAP before getting too bored. It's something I wanted to write on my blog - http://fiendophobia.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/to-pad-or-not-to-pad.html - and I've copied it here:

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To pad or not to pad...

...that is not the question. Any more than to cam or not, to RP or not, to chalk or not, to Stealth rubber or not. Pads are default, de-rigeur protection, I use them and so does everyone else...

I'm still standing on the slopey ripple, as I have been for over 20 minutes. I could reverse down and jump off at any time. I could retreat and walk away at any time. I could bring the pads over and boulder it out. I look across at them stacked beneath Tris. He is getting close to Sithee Direct, pushing through day 6 tiredness from the undercling to an overhead press, a brilliant move. It provides a welcome distraction whilst my brain refines the sequences above, slotting together information gained over several tenative forays. Left foot edge - no. Right foot smear - no. Left hand gaston - no. Left hand over to top sloper - no. Right hand to sidepull pebble - no. Exploring options, discarding dead ends, running out of excuses to not do the remaining optimised moves.

The conditions are pretty much perfect - hovering around zero at dusk after a fresh sunny day - and the rock feels great. My skin feels less great. My tips went numb at first, now they are glowing and rippled from the grit grains. Each time I'm surprised I can stick onto the top slopers without pinging straight off - I have no intention of doing so and need to get this right if....when I do it. I look down at the flat pile of my rope bag and down jacket. My tips are still sweating so my swiftly-discarded hoodie adds a few millimetres of cushioning. I keep my beanie on, I just got it in the Hope Spar for £1.70 and it's muted stripes would go well with grey, purple, or blue. I'm wearing a blue t-shirt so the beanie gives me confidence.

A couple of climbers appear with several pads to join in the fun. Would I like their pads thrown down beneath me? No, I want to do this the way I had always desired. They happily pile them beneath Torture Garden, but I don't want to hold too many people up so get back into the crux position with a few percent extra motivation. Smear my hands on the slopers, dig my foot into the pocket....and this time take the handbrake off and step up into the subtle left foot pocket. Calm and committed, left hand into the flake, right hand to the good edge, left foot onto the flake and scamper with glee to the top. The climbing is delightful as is the pleasure of doing it in this way, it's possibly the highlight of several days and a dozen good routes on the grit.



So I did an easy micro-route without pads, just like a million climbers before me in the bad old days. So what?? Except for me, it IS a challenging style of climbing. I'm short and sweaty and sketchy on smears and slopers, I land with the grace and impact of a pissed hippo and the skeletal resilience of a balsa model. I also had the very sensible option to do the climb as a highball with good pads and spotting - which in my experience makes a lot of difference to my safety and confidence - just like a million climbers do in the good current days. Except I chose not to....

Why??

Or maybe:

Was it more enjoyable at the time doing the climb in that style than doing it in a highball style??

That's an easier question because the answer is a simple yes. The increased focus, the precision, learning the moves, dealing with the mental challenge by becoming increasingly familiar with the physical situation - all were more enjoyable for me than if I'd felt safer and more comfortable above pads. The sweaty skin from a lot of up-and-downing wasn't but that was a minor detraction.

Is that justification in itself??

Maybe.

But at the same time I'm always interested in the issues of motivation, and the issues of climbing style. Highballing is the new, normal climbing style. Micro-routing isn't. Pads are the new, normal climbing protection. It takes a particular effort to conciously ignore and actively avoid using them. So why would anyone bother to choose the harder, more dangerous, more time consuming option?? When the convention seems a very natural approach to shorter protectionless routes, increasing the safety yet still retaining some of the feel and committment required, it seems ridiculous to fly in the face of that convention - even when top climbers like James Pearson do it (from what I understand his motivation was partly to have clarity about the nature of the challenge in comparison to other grit trad challenges).

For me personally, I take all the opportunities I can get to deal with trad challenges, and I take my protection rack of C3s, RPs, Peenuts, Superlights, Ballnuts, HBs, Tricams on most bolder routes. So why don't I put the protection of pads beneath my feet??

It boils down to inspiration (god, not THAT again!) - how I was originally inspired to do a climb. Most of my inspiration is old inspiration - I'm a crap climber so it takes me many years from first desiring a route to actually feeling ready to try climbing it. Old, deep, entrenched inspiration. If I was inspired by a climb in the old red-spined Stanage guide, then chances are I'll still be inspired by it now (and might have avoided it for decades due to being too scared). If I was inspired by a route as a micro-route and/or a bold solo, chances are I'll still be inspired by THAT challenge and THAT style now. Which means although it will be harder and scarier, it's how I actually want to do it - for the reasons of the enjoyment listed previously.

I have quite a few routes I have always wanted to do in this way. I might relinquish my inspiration and throw a load of pads down in a month, or a year, or a decade. Or I might stick with what I want and do them without. Or I might never do them, I might just accept I can't do them how I want, and just walk away. Is it silly to deny myself the climbing?? I don't know, I've got a couple of decades to change my mind if I want to. Conversely there are many similar climbs I was never previously inspired by that I'd get inspired by now purely as highballs, and never consider doing them in a different way.

There is no conclusion to this, there is no point I'm making, as the issue can be as simple as it first seems: It's now a rare and esoteric choice to solo rather than to highball, but it is still a genuine choice and can be undertaken for genuine reasons.

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If anyone has any anecdotes or personal views on the topic (not on my post specifically), I'd be interested to hear them.

Please no "pads don't make it safe, X just broke their ankle on Careless Torque" (I know, I saw the ambulances and MRT) nor "so what everyone did this in the old days" (I know, I was climbing well before pads, even bouldering terrified me then), nor "you're being an idiot, you'll regret it when you hurt yourself" (I know, I already described it as ridiculous and silly, okay).

[Paul B]

E5?

[MJC]

You're doing what makes you happy in climbing and that is what you should do, and is the right thing for you. That's not something you or anyone else should question really. How other people around you choose to climb is irrelevant to you because they aren't you. Even if everyone else is doing the same thing that you're not. If you don't climb the way you enjoy the most then what's the point?

[205Chris]

One of my friends still enjoys climbing protectionless grit routes which regularly get highballed without pads. There were 4 of us trying DIY once and we had to move the pads out of the way everytime it was his go.

[Boredboy]

I think mass padding of previously scary grit routes has had an overall negative impact on climbing in the peak including the rock itself as well as the nature of the ascents. I've heard it said that using shit loads of pads and going ground up on a 'highball' route is somehow ethically superior to what's gone before hand, part of the new school of climbing etc etc, it just seems to me to be increasing traffic, sanitising the experience and giving the rock a good hammering in the process. 

[tomtom]

I think mass padding of previously scary grit routes has had an overall negative impact on climbing in the peak including the rock itself as well as the nature of the ascents. I've heard it said that using shit loads of pads and going ground up on a 'highball' route is somehow ethically superior to what's gone before hand, part of the new school of climbing etc etc, it just seems to me to be increasing traffic, sanitising the experience and giving the rock a good hammering in the process.

Not sure I follow your logic really... Routes will not become 'routinely' heavily padded as:
1. Generally padded routes/highballs are hard! (ergo not many people can/will do them)
2. they still require quite some courage even with loads of pads! (I wouldnt do it - but I am chicken shit)
3. Its a real pain in the arse lugging 8 or whatever odd mats up below a route - it needs quite a few people. In otherwords its inconvenient so I can't see millions of folk doing it and ruining the rock... in the same way trade VDiffs and Severes become polished...

As for sanitising the experience? Well thats down to the person experiencing it surely? Climbing is done for personal satisfaction - not in front of 500 cheering groupies!



Oh dear. I suspect I've been drawn into some sort of UKC style thing now... Sorry people... watching Strictly must have had an adverse impact on my judgement :D

[Fiend]

Interesting views, thanks for those replies (still not sure about Paul B's tho?)

You're doing what makes you happy in climbing and that is what you should do, and is the right thing for you. That's not something you or anyone else should question really.

Hah! A fair point, but personally I find it really important to question my motivations, desires, and aims. I want to make sure I am doing stuff for "genuine" reasons (as I hope others are), and writing about this was part of that process. If I'd got to the top of DIY and thought "thank fuck that was over" or "woooh really earned my big numbers there", I'd be giving myself a kick up the arse (and maybe replacing my flaccid old Pods).

One of my friends still enjoys climbing protectionless grit routes which regularly get highballed without pads. There were 4 of us trying DIY once and we had to move the pads out of the way everytime it was his go.

What did you think of that? It is quite an odd situation (writing that non-judgementally btw), going against the grain that much.

I think mass padding of previously scary grit routes has had an overall negative impact on climbing in the peak including the rock itself as well as the nature of the ascents. I've heard it said that using shit loads of pads and going ground up on a 'highball' route is somehow ethically superior to what's gone before hand, part of the new school of climbing etc etc, it just seems to me to be increasing traffic, sanitising the experience and giving the rock a good hammering in the process. 

That's an interesting viewpoint. I might not agree but I do respect it.

One could say that climbing grit has "lost" something with the status quo of mass padding, but one could also say the same of all the other technological advancements in climbing protection and equipment (clean hand gang?). The tide can't be turned back...

Personally I tend to agree with others that ground-up highballing is stylistically preferable to headpointing. Mostly because it retains more of the uncertainty and the journey of the discovery that I think is so interesting and valuable in climbing, but also because of the way highballing is presented these days as a clearly different style of climbing, rather than being confusable with normal trad.

[Fiend]

Oh dear. I suspect I've been drawn into some sort of UKC style thing now... Sorry people... watching Strictly must have had an adverse impact on my judgement :D

That hurts. I'm sure people here can be trusted to post properly about it... I'm not trying to be all controversial about it, it's just something of interest to me.

I think Boredboy is definitely right about mass paddage being the norm - everything I've seen in videos, pictures, and in person supports that. Whether that is "good" or "bad" is a different issue.

[tomtom]

Just reflecting on myself Fiend

I have to say though - that only once have I seen people padding out a route - and that was Archangel in the snow.. Lots of mats under a boulder problems - sure (we had 8 or more under Suavito the other weekend) - but not under routes.... It may be popular for videos and pictures - but thats not what most people/punters are doing.. I think the number of people out there doing this very often is very very small...

[Boredboy]

Hey, sorry if that came across as a UKC style post

I wasn't trolling for a pointless debate on style, just not that into shit loads of people with shit loads of pads swarming all over the crags.

[tomtom]

Group hug time

[Paul B]

Interesting views, thanks for those replies (still not sure about Paul B's tho?)

Keep up E5?

[Boredboy]

Haha, sure.

Interestingly I remember when suavito was first climbed and given E5 6C in the outside new routes book, presumably because it was done without loads of pads.

[dave]

I've heard it said that using shit loads of pads and going ground up on a 'highball' route is somehow ethically superior to what's gone before hand, part of the new school of climbing etc etc,

Only when what's gone before was routine toproping/headpointing.

[Fiend]

Hey I generally keep up with 2009!

James' points are correct but pretty self-evident. The whole grade thing was farcical for a while but seems to have been neatly bypassed by acknowledging highballing as a seperate style with seperate information that describes it best.

I wonder what he'd do on grit in the same situation these days??

[205Chris]

One of my friends still enjoys climbing protectionless grit routes which regularly get highballed without pads. There were 4 of us trying DIY once and we had to move the pads out of the way everytime it was his go.

What did you think of that? It is quite an odd situation (writing that non-judgementally btw), going against the grain that much.

I respect his approach, although I have just been reminded that in this case my friend actually did DIY above pads (as we / he got bored moving them) but it was this approach that made him realise he wanted to do certain routes in an old school style. He later went and did Downhill Racer with only a beer towel at the base of the route at a time when pads had become the norm. He also shuns pre clipping even the first bolt on sport climbs!

I've heard it said that using shit loads of pads and going ground up on a 'highball' route is somehow ethically superior to what's gone before hand, part of the new school of climbing etc etc,

Only when what's gone before was routine toproping/headpointing.

I think Boredboy raises a valid point e.g. is going ground up above a sea of pads and taking 20/50/100 attempts to commit / do the move better than top roping something a handful of times then climbing it 

[Fiend]

Interesting stuff. What beer towel was it??

You're being disengious (sp!) about the latter comparison though, one could say the other way around: "is going ground up above a sea of pads and taking a handful of attempts to commit / do the move better than top roping something 20/50/100 times then climbing it *"

(* a scenario that could hypothetically arise out of trying a climb that was very bold and insecure above a bad but well-paddable landing)

Like for like with the numbers would be a better question.

[Boredboy]

Funnily enough I think my objection to loads of pads is more to do with the cultural shift in the climbing scene than an individuals style of ascent (which is of course up to them). 1 person with 10 pads under a highball- so what. 15 people with 10 pads 3 go pro's and a wireless hook up to online beta, roving around the Peaks, I think thats what bouldering pads have created to some extent. The modern climbing scene really. I remember the Shock of the New / some climbers video clearly laying out it's anti-establishment sentiment with a message flashing up saying 'f@:k the scene' I was a bit unsure about that message at the time as the scene was / is where it's at, surely?

[Falling Down]

It's called soloing isn't it?

[Stubbs]

I'm glad Yorkshire isn't taken over by these roving padded hoardes with their new fangled electronic devices!

I like that you denigrated climbers filming themselves and then went on to talk about a climbing film...

[tomtom]

I've never had my peak bouldering experience ruined by a group of 10 with a kazillion mats, camera's and quadracopters filming the thing..

Though Lagerstarfish did once set up a dolly and track system at Rubicon (made from a pair of old roller skates and some surplus pipes - it worked quite well) and filmed me puntering around. I didnt get up anything so said footage never aired - or he forgot to charge the batteries and was just being polite :D

[SA Chris]

maybe he did record it all and never aired it out of politeness.

My POV is; do what you want, it's your party. Everyone should be able to approach any climb in a way they see fit, provided it doesn no "harm" to others or the rock (this includes toproping, ethics police). But if you smash up both ankles don't come running to me, or post up on NNFN.

[Johnny Brown]

Short answer, Fiend, to answer in a couple of quotes from climbing legends:

1. Play to your own parameters.

2. Satisfaction never came from making it easy. It comes from making it hard.

I did a lot of stuff with no or minimal paddage, and got a lot of satisfaction from it. A lot of that was due to the fact that there was simply a lot fewer (and smaller) pads around. But I did do a few things where I bothered to move pads away first. I don't bother so much any more, partly because I've done most of the ones that matter to me, and partly because I realised insisting on NO pads was more about pre-empting armchair criticism/ 'earning' a certain grade than practicality. For starters, you want a dry spot to start off. But more importantly, I've witnessed a lot of group highball sessions and the right people with the skills and the grit always get up. The punters without get left behind - the route isn't devalued.

I've heard it said that using shit loads of pads and going ground up on a 'highball' route is somehow ethically superior to what's gone before hand, part of the new school of climbing etc etc,

You need to realise ten-fifteen years ago the crags were covered in headpointing crews top-roping the shit out of everything and then making scrabbly ascents with sequences no one would dare use ground-up. The precise details were then immediately forgotten/ glossed over in the mags and pubs alike, with climbers waving their E7 big grades about despite never having onsighted E4.

The nice thing about highballing is you still need the ability, balls and commitment to get up there (I've seen some shocking things done on top-rope - wire-brushing/ kicking vital pebbles to check they can be trusted etc), and at the same time it is accepted you no longer earn the E-grade.

I remember the Shock of the New / some climbers video clearly laying out it's anti-establishment sentiment with a message flashing up saying 'f@:k the scene'

Hmm, I was always a bit bemused by that. I had this idea that a certain crew were 'the scene' until I got to know them and realised they thought we were 'the scene'. Dan etc might not have been in the mags as much as he thought they deserved at the time (though Tom was), but his films (which were widely seen at the time too) have survived rather better since. Despite the amateur nature of climbing media, in my experience the right people get the recognition in the end.

[MJC]

Hah! A fair point, but personally I find it really important to question my motivations, desires, and aims. I want to make sure I am doing stuff for "genuine" reasons (as I hope others are), and writing about this was part of that process. If I'd got to the top of DIY and thought "thank fuck that was over" or "woooh really earned my big numbers there", I'd be giving myself a kick up the arse (and maybe replacing my flaccid old Pods).

Yeah. I didn't mean you literally shouldn't question yourself about it at all. I mean you shouldn't think of it as a less valid thing to do based on what other people do.

[Fiend]

But if you smash up both ankles don't come running to me, or post up on NNFN.

Really??
If I choose to go lead climbing (more risky) instead of top-roping and hurt myself, am I allowed to post in NNFN?
If I choose to go trad climbing (more risky) instead of sport climbing and hurt myself, am I allowed to post in NNFN?
If I choose to go highballing (more risky) instead of just sit-starts and hurt myself, am I allowed to post in NNFN?