[Mr.Burns]

A bloke i work with (who used to do a bit of body building type stuff) tells me that caffeine restricts blood flow to muscles, anyone else heard this? or know if its true? Since then i have cut down from 6-8 cups of coffee a day to 2-3 and given up any of those energy drinks, more to see if it has any effects on my training etc, after a week i feel pretty good but get tired during the day (im up about 5am and train for about 1 1/2 hours before work, so maybe thats got more to do with feeling sleepy than the lack of caffeine. Any thoughts?

[Lund]

It increases the amount of fat you burn at the expense of a constricting effect on your capillaries.  But nothing too exciting - unless you're going to high altitude and are worried about frostbite, I'd not worry about it.  I doubt it would have much effect on your training...

6-8 cups is quite high though, so you're probably best off cutting down anyway.

[namnok]

i've cut out caffiene altogether for the past 6 months now, but it's more a year now but i did have a break when we went on holiday so i had a 3-4 coffees over 2 week hols

can't say its had any effect cutting out apart from the caffiene hangover the first few weeks i quit.

if only they did a caffiene free over-caffeinated sugary drink company

[Mr.Burns]

sound, so a good idea to cut down but not get obsessed that you'll get burnt out cos you had an extra cup waiting for the rain to go? out of interest are there any other negative properties to it?

[webbo]

Yep.
Instant coffee used to give me the shits when I went running.also it can lead to dehydration.

[Paul B]

if only they did a caffiene free over-caffeinated sugary drink company

Mix sugar and water together, add some horse piss and you're golden (literally).

[SA Chris]

Why would anyone drink over-caffeinated sugary drink company other than for the energy / caffeine kick. The stuff tastes fucking awful.

[Fultonius]

Why would anyone drink over-caffeinated sugary drink company other than for the energy / caffeine kick. The stuff tastes fucking awful.

Word.

[Lund]

Yep.
Instant coffee used to give me the shits when I went running.also it can lead to dehydration.

Sorry, there's no solid proof that a realistic intake of coffee causes dehaydration.

1. Annals of Nutrition and Metabolism 1997; Vol. 41(no. 1):29-36
Coffee consumption and total body water homeostasis as measured by
fluid balance and bioelectrical impedance analysis.
Neuhauser-Berthold, Beine S, Verwied SC, Luhrmann PM.
Institute of Nutritional Sciences, Justus Liebig University, Giessen,
Germany.

The authors put 12 healthy volunteers onto a standardized diet in
which mineral water was the only liquid. On the 6th day, they replaced
some of the water with 6 cups of coffee containing 642 mg caffeine.
The result was an increase in the amount of urine excreted over 24
hours.  The average increase was 753 ml (+/- 532 ml).  At the same
time, there was a decrease in body weight and total body water was
found to have decreased by an average of 2.7%.   This study therefore
shows that a relatively high level of coffee consumption does lead to
a degree of dehydration.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9194998&dopt=Abstract

2.  International Journal of Sport Nutrition, Exercise and Metabolism
2002 Jun; Vol 12 (no. 2):189-206
Caffeine, body fluid-electrolyte balance, and exercise performance.
Armstrong LE.
Departments of Kinesiology, Nutritional Sciences, and Physiology &
Neurobiology, University of Connecticut, Storrs, CT 06269-1110, USA.

The author reviewed 10 published studies to find whether caffeine can
cause dehydration. The overall consensus from the studies is that
caffeine is mildly diuretic, but only to a similar extent to the
diuretic effect of water. The studies, which compared the effects of
100-680 mg caffeine with those of water or placebo seldom found a
statistically significant effect of caffeine on the volume of excreted
urine, and did not associate caffeine with a physiologically
significant level of dehydration. It also appeared that individuals
who have developed a tolerance to caffeine through regular consumption
are less likely to show any effects of caffeine on body hydration.
The author concluded that moderate consumption of caffeince will not
adverely affect the fluid-electrolyte balance of athletes and other
sports enthusiasts, while people whose lifestyles are more sedentary
will have an even smaller risk because they lose less fluid through
sweating than athletes.

members of the general public should be a less risk than athletes
because their fluid losses via sweating are smaller.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12187618&dopt=Abstract

3. Sports Medicine 2001; Vol 31 (no. 11):785-807
Caffeine and exercise: metabolism, endurance and performance.
Graham TE.
Human Biology and Nutritional Sciences, University of Guelph, Ontario,
Canada.

This is another review of the literature on the effects of caffeine on
athletic performance. The author concludes “There is no evidence that
caffeine ingestion before exercise leads to dehydration, ion
imbalance, or any other adverse effects.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11583104&dopt=Abstract


4. Journal of the American College of Nutrition, Vol. 19, No. 5,
591-600 (2000)
The Effect of Caffeinated, Non-Caffeinated, Caloric and Non-Caloric
Beverages on Hydration
Ann C. Grandjean, EdD, FACN, CNS, Kristin J. Reimers, RD, MS, Karen E.
Bannick, MA and Mary C. Haven, MS
The Center for Human Nutrition, (A.C.G., K.J.R.), Omaha, Nebraska
School of Allied Health Professions, University of Nebraska Medical
Center (M.C.H.), Omaha, Nebraska
Bannick Consulting, Isle, Minnesota (K.E.B.)

This was a study in 18 healthy males aged 24-39. They were made to
drink various combinations of water and caffeinated and
non-caffeinated beverages.  The authors concluded “This preliminary
study found no significant differences in the effect of various
combinations of beverages on hydration status of healthy adult males.
Advising people to disregard caffeinated beverages as part of the
daily fluid intake is not substantiated by the results of this study.”
Full text at: http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/19/5/591

5. International  Journal of Sports Medicine 1997 Jan; Vol. 18 (no
1):40-46
Caffeine vs caffeine-free sports drinks: effects on urine production
at rest and during prolonged exercise.
Wemple RD, Lamb DR, McKeever KH.
Exercise Physiology Laboratory, Ohio State University, Columbus, USA.

The authors compared the effects of caffeinated and non-caffeinated
sports drinks on urine production and water balance during rest and
during exercise. They did find a statistically significant difference
in the amount of urine produced at rest, with greater quantities being
produced after consumption of caffeine. However, there was no
significant difference between the two groups during exercise. The
authors suggest that the diuretic effect of caffeine might be
counteracted during exercise by the increased levels of plasma
catecholamines (norepinephrine, adrenalin, dopamine) that result from
physical activity.  They conclude caffeine consumed in sports drinks
“during moderate endurance exercise apparently does not compromise
bodily hydration status.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9059904&dopt=Abstract


6. British Journal of Nursing 2002 Apr 25-May 8; Vol.11(no :560-565
Caffeine reduction education to improve urinary symptoms.
Bryant CM, Dowell CJ, Fairbrother G.
Prince Henry and Prince of Wales Hospitals, Australia.
The objective of this study was to see whether reducing caffeine
consumption would have an effect in 95 patients with urinary symptoms.
 They found that reducing caffeine intake did reduce urinary
frequency, urgency and leakage.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11979209&dopt=Abstract

7. Journal of Nephrology 2000 Nov-Dec; Vol. 13 Supplement 3: S65-70
Medical prevention and treatment of urinary stones.
Colussi G, De Ferrari ME, Brunati C, Civati G.
Niguarda-Ca' Granda Hospital, Milan, Italy.

The authors review strategies for the prevention and treatment of
urinary stones. Adequate hydration is one of the key elements of
prevention.  “Hydration has proved effective in clinical trials and
population-based observational studies; "fluids" may consist of water
(any kind), coffee (caffeinated or decaffeinated), tea, beer and wine;
grapefruit juice appears to have an unexplained ill effect.” This is
therefore indirect evidence that coffee, whether caffeinated or
decaffeinated, does not affect the maintenance of optimal levels of
hydration.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11132035&dopt=Abstract

[webbo]

Tell that to my bladder.

[SA Chris]

And mine. That's just taking the piss.

[TobyD]

if only they did a caffiene free over-caffeinated sugary drink company

Mix sugar and water together, add some horse piss and you're golden (literally).

genius Paul, that's pretty much what i was about the write ... before i saw that you had worded it slightly better than i was about to 
I've always thought over-caffeinated sugary drink company had more of a smell / taste of vomit / stomach acid, but perhaps that is associated with student days swigging it back with cheap vodka 

[Pebblespanker]

Wolfgang Gullich used to consume 'large amounts of black coffee' with his breakfast and it didn't seem to do him much harm in terms of performance

One thought though and thats if you have a one too many expressos/lattes I have noticed that the old thought processes get a bit screwed/erratic so it might not be the best prep for redpoints or tricky grit ... 

[SA Chris]

Yeah, I get a wee bit jittery if I overdo it.

[slackline]

[SA Chris]

"Cofe" only has one F. And his hair is a bit darker.

[slackline]

  That didn't even occur to me (thats Tweek and his parents who own a coffee shop give him coffee to ameliorate his attention defecit which makes him a bit edgy, all the characters get dosed up on coffee in the episode Gnomes)

[SA Chris]

Thanks slackers for the education.

I may have watched an episode or 50 in my life.

[slackline]

Only another 164 to go then (there having been 214 episodes over 15 series to date ).

[chriss]

Yep.
Instant coffee used to give me the shits when I went running.also it can lead to dehydration.

That's one of the reasons I used to drink it! 1 large cup- BAM feeling light & buzzing with energy.

I have never stressed about dehydration even on long run's on warm day's, but that's just me I have no SCIENCE based facts to back anything up.

[mloskot]

Any thoughts?

There has been some research indeed http://www.nhs.uk/news/2010/02February/Pages/Coffee-and-blood-flow.aspx

You're not saying how long you sleep per day, but any deficit in this matter accumulates pretty well.
Check this lecture given at Google by Dr. William Dement on Healthy Sleep and Optimal Performance, very interesting



About coffee from different point for climbing, coffee causes variation of blood glucose level, initially increasing, then quickly dropping making you hungry. This is obviously not a good idea when you want to motivate yourself for weight loss or diet.
Things are also different depending on how you make a coffee and how much you drink. North American-style half litre mugs or two (so you they can stuff double coffee holders in their cars) just floods your with acid and fat. Worst coffee possible is coffee powder poured with boiling water or that made with French press.

Cutting down from 6-8 coffee cups per day is a good idea anyway, your stomach will be grateful :-)

[chummer]

I always have a strong fresh coffee before I climb indoors, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it has a beneficial effect on my session helping me try harder, keep more focussed and motivated. I really don't feel any dehydration effects but i do ensure i am well hydrated before during and after my session. I also take a small flask out if I am trying a hard redpoint to keep me topped up with caffeine, like I say, I find it very benificial. (Not so for the trad though except in the morning to get out to the crag)

6-8 cups sounds like way too much, any dehydration you suffer I would think would come from the fact that it sounds like this is all you drink during the day. I used to do this myself but now I manage to restrict myself to 2 strong cups a day. One in the morning to get me going and one in the afternoon before climbing.
If I have much more than this the effect from the caffeine reduces noticably.
 I used herbal teas (peppermint is tasty, green is good for the weight loss apparently) to ween me off always having tea or coffee during the day which really helped as did making sure the coffee I drink is strong and good quality.

[chummer]

sorry, just reread your opening post and realised i had not read it properly, sorry for the long winded slightly irrelevant reply!

I would say some of your tiredness is coming from readjusting your caffeine intake and therefore tolerance levels in combo with having the early mornings.

Good effort I say and I am sure you will simply adapt and become less tired. I presume you're getting 8 hours a night (sleep that is)?

[mloskot]

I always have a strong fresh coffee before I climb indoors, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it has a beneficial effect on my session helping me try harder, keep more focussed and motivated.
...
I used to do this myself but now I manage to restrict myself to 2 strong cups a day.

I second that. For me, it is 2 espresso per day (morning + near noon), sometimes 3rd in evening before session.