right then:
first off i will state that Fabian Cancellara will win the prologue on saturday with wiggo a close second.
I'm still not sure what the protest was about yesterday.
Was it that they thought the stage was unsuitable for the tour as it was too steep/slippy in the wet and therefore unjustifiable ?
my brother made an epic effort to watch the stage, they drove to dover, parked, got the ferry with bikes, rode from dunkirk to the final section of cobbles, then rode back. 170 mile round trip.Respect. Went out for a short spin this evening and found two stretches of "pavé" around Ilkley and Otley :-)
cav = slow.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/picturegalleries/7873504/Agony-for-cyclists-in-Tour-de-France-2010-crashes-in-pictures.html?image=4 (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/picturegalleries/7873504/Agony-for-cyclists-in-Tour-de-France-2010-crashes-in-pictures.html?image=4)
Lots of knarly crash pictures here after the first 4 days - skip to image 5 of Robbie McEwan - I predict that that is going to hurt when he gets in the bath!
cav = slow.
Are you going to have him a race?
cav = slow.
Are you going to have him a race?
great exciting racing this weekend, shame to see wiggins blow in the last kms, i thought he was looking good.
why would team sky ride in black in the 35 degree heat? is brailsford mad?
why would team sky ride in black in the 35 degree heat? is brailsford mad?
More to the point was Team Sky's suicidal push up the penultimate climb, so that BW was left with little/no help on the last climb...
well...what the fuck was renshaw up to this afternoon? does that by default put cav out of the tour too?
well...what the fuck was renshaw up to this afternoon? does that by default put cav out of the tour too?
Toe clip waddage from Jens Voigt (http://www.bicycling.com/tour-de-france/tour-features/saying-no-sag-wagon)
Thats great!
(http://www.bicycling.com/sites/default/files/images/TDF10_stg16_voigt.jpg)
I'm doing 70 kilometres an hour on the first descent when my front tyre explodes," explained Voigt. "Before I hit the asphalt I actually manage to think that this is going to hurt. Both knees, elbows, hands, shoulders and the entire left side of my body were severely hurt.
My ribs are hurting but hey, broken ribs are overrated anyway. Fortunately, I didn't land on my face this time and I'm still alive. I was offered a ride on the truck that picks up abandoned riders but I'm not going to quit another Tour de France.
"Now, there's a rest day and Paris is not that far away.
cav = slow.
Are you going to have him a race?
errr. slower than other pro tour sprinters i should have said.
amazing. he is with no doubt the fastest in the field.
What is going on with Fabien's calves here? Looks like scars up the back of each...
Must be where they put the pistons in.
i am pretty psyched by the news of contador leaving astana and taking "the spanish block" with him. and rumored to ride alongside cancellara under riis! what a team this could be, classics and grand tours. contador has stated that he wants to ride two tours next year too.
Contador dope shocker:
Sad. I'm pretty sure you cant get clenbuterol in food though.
Prescription clenbuterol is around 40 micrograms/day and the half life is about a day and a half (http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=427391)Sounds like if you could take a supplement at a concentration hundreds of times lower than previously could be detected by labs then we might see a few more cropping up.
This year I am going for:
10 Menchov
This year I am going for:
10 Menchov
He isn't riding. Geox didn't get an invite.
1) Contador
2) Schleck
3) Evans
4) Horner
5) Wiggins
6) Van den Broeck
7) Gesink
8 Sammy Sanchez
9) Vinokourov
10) CunegoThis year I am going for:
10 Menchov
He isn't riding. Geox didn't get an invite.
AG2R-La Mondiale - Vicent Lavenu:
1. Contador;
2. Andy Schleck;
3. Evans
Astana - Giuseppe Martinelli:
1. Contador
BMC - John Lelangue:
1. Evans;
2. Andy Schleck;
3. Gesink
Cofidis - Eric Boyer:
1. Contador;
2. Frank Schleck;
3. Basso
Europcar - Jean René Bernaudeau:
1. Contador;
2. Evans;
3. Kern
Euskaltel-Euskadi - Igor González de Galdeano
1. Contador;
2. Andy Schleck;
3. Samuel Sánchez
FDJ - Thierry Bricaut:
1. Contador;
2. Andy Schleck;
3. Evans
Garmin-Cervélo - Lionel Marie:
1. Contador;
2. Andy Schleck;
3. Evans
HTC-Highroad - Valerio Piva:
1. Contador;
2. Andy Schleck;
3. Van den Broeck
Katusha - Andrei Tchmil:
1 Andy Schleck;
2. Contador;
3. Vinokourov
Lampre-ISD - Orlando Maini:
1. Contador;
2. Andy Schleck;
3. Evans
Leopard-Trek - Kim Andersen:
1 Contador;
2. Andy Schleck;
3. Frank Schleck
Liquigas-Cannondale - Stefano Zanatta:
1. Contador;
2. Andy Schleck;
3. Basso
Movistar - Yvon Ledanois:
1. Contador;
2. Andy Schleck:
3. Samuel Sánchez o Kloden
Omega Pharma-Lotto - Marc Sergeant:
1. Contador;
2. Andy Schleck;
3. Van den Broeck
Quick Step - Patrick Lefevere:
1. Contador;
2. Andy Schleck:
3. Gesink
Rabobank - Erik Breukink:
1. Contador;
2. Andy Schleck;
3. Gesink
RadioShack - Alain Gallopin:
1. Contador;
2. Andy Schleck;
3. Gesink
Saur-Sojasun - Stephane Heulot:
1. Contador;
2. Andy Shcleck;
3. Gesink
Saxo Bank-SunGard - Bradley McGee:
1. Contador
Sky - Dave Brailsford:
1. Contador;
2. Andy Schleck
Vacansoleil - Michel Cornelisse:
1. Andy Schleck;
2. Contador;
3. Gesink
andy lost about 18 minutes in tour of switzerland. top 5 maybe but his confidence must be rock bottom.
TTT - sky.
ITT - cancellara.
cav will win, all of, some of or none of the following stages: 3, 5, 6, 7, 11, 15, 21.
yellow - contador. :no: now im like this: ;D lets hope it lasts!
wiggins top 10.
there will be amazing support riding by dani navvaro which will be the highlight of the tour for me, just a shame who it will be in support of.
philipe gilbert will win either stage 4 or 9. errr or stage 1, didnt look at the profile of that one!!!!!!
Good article with more info about clenbuterol and the ins and outs of anti-doping legislation here...
http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2010/09/30/contador-case-means-hard-choices-for-anti-doping/ (http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2010/09/30/contador-case-means-hard-choices-for-anti-doping/)
Frank is older is he not?baby as in ranking...
loved that yesterday as the other favorites rounded the last corner and contador was dropped.
come on Cadel!!!!!
I wish remy absalon would take up road racing and show them how it's done! Bunch of pansies!
An Australian to win yellow, a Brit to win green, should be a happy day but somehow it all seems rather unimportant...
This year I am going for:
1. Contador
2. A Schleck
3. Evans
4. Van Den Broeck
5. Leipheimer
6. Wiggins
7. Gesink
8. S Sanchez
9. Horner
10 Vande Velde
[Anyways I think Andy Schleck will get it this year, Contador should be knackered. Evans is getting to old for the podium.
The mrs has reminded me how close I came to knocking Mr Evans off his bike in the middle of his home town over here a couple of summers back ... I told her the Schleck's offer wasn't good enough... :whistle:
Still reckon nibs will prevail in the end tho.
So 2 Brits finish 2nd & 3rd in a Grand Tour. (ADmittedly one was born in Kenya)
... and the other one was born in Belgium...
made for wiggins that.
shame he will be riding for cav.
at htc cav had an entire team of top flight riders working for him and him alone, can he win with half a team, or a tired team who are busy trying to also win the gc?
What difference will it make if Cav has one less man in his lead out? Everyone will gets the same time on the sprint stages provided you don't mess up outside the final 3km.
Who from sky supported Wiggo on the hills in 2010?
Leaving a good 7 or 8 guys to help Wiggo. :doubt:there are 9 members of a team.
Maybe not http://inrng.com/?p=5459 (http://inrng.com/?p=5459)Leaving a good 7 or 8 guys to help Wiggo. :doubt:there are 9 members of a team.
Changing the subject slightly, are any of you guys riding any Euro sportives next year? I'm quite keen to do the Marmotte again, and maybe the GF Sportful...
Any predictions for what's going to emerge as the most popular doping method this year? Is EPO still cool or is it all about blood doping now?
not Boonen enough for the classics like stages.
Just watching the hightlights from today, what about Cav in the first sprint? Beast!
It's 2012 !!!
My predictions for this year:
The GC contest will be a Wiggo/Evans grind-a-thon in the mountains with them both doing turbo-diesel paces until it's just them left.
There will be occasional flashes of interest as FrankS, Gesink, Westra, Nibali, Rolland and Van den Broeck attack but only get about 10s.
Final podium will be Evans, Wiggins and one of the above in that order (after Wiggins starts to look ragged in the third week).
Hesjedal and Scarponi will put in a lot of effort, but then realise that they are both still cooked after the Giro.
Greipel will win more sprint stages than Cav. Farrar will be second or third three times. Sagan will win more stages than anyone expects and take the green jersey (and then repeat this every year for the next 10 years).
. However this is as we all know is just the warm up for next year's tour de god's country.
Cunt-a-door has been proven to be a drugs cheat. Froomie has just had an increase in form once he's not ill. I'm hoping there's a world of difference! However previous cycling shows that I may just be gullible. However this is as we all know is just the warm up for next year's tour de god's country.
Also, ace finish today! love it when they juuuuust hold on.
Now then, since cyclingnews have finally got their arses in gear and updated the points, I think we ought to know who's who - starting with the obvious:
Duma - dumagicians
Will Hunt - Hunts Heroes
sidewinder - Sidewinder
lukeyboy - ??
mr__j5 - ??
iain - ??
?? - ??
?? - ??
Also, ace finish today! love it when they juuuuust hold on.
I'm languishing mid table after my Cav, OPQS team, and bonus first stage strategy didn't go quite as hoped...
?? - Crushing Blow <- own up then!
FD, you need to have submitted by 10am CEST (9am BST) on the day of the stage to score for that stage?
Team Time Trial:
No fantasy points are scored for any riders or cycling teams in Team Time Trial stage.
Matter of fact encyclopedic beta mind. Genius.
The rules and the website are total dogshit but it adds a bit of extra fun to watching it. And anything I'm beating tomtom at has to be worthwhile.
Found it strange how early his team worked though, and then seemed spent when they were really needed.
Omega Pharma-Quick Step's sports director, Brian Holm, brushed off his reaction. "I just heard him yelling in the bus, no one can understand him when he's yelling,":lol:
:-\
A performance good enough to be from the 90's.
:-\
A performance good enough to be from the 90's.
this.
It'll be interesting to see what Asapha Powell and Tyson Gay got caught taking (if B samples are correct etc..) - A batch of them seem to have been tested positive together which indicates they may have a new/better/refined test for something...
that Froome is an exceptional athlete that can be the best climber but also come within seconds of the time trial world champion on a short flat TT.
that Froome is an exceptional athlete that can be the best climber but also come within seconds of the time trial world champion on a short flat TT.
:)
Slightly :offtopic: butIt'll be interesting to see what Asapha Powell and Tyson Gay got caught taking (if B samples are correct etc..) - A batch of them seem to have been tested positive together which indicates they may have a new/better/refined test for something...
Powell and the other sprinter both tested positive for oxilofrine according to the BBC - a stimulant that is not widely but still available in a variety of supplements. I wonder about this - both at the same event... we'll see, but this is how hard it is for these people:
Look on here:
http://www.bodybuildingwarehouse.co.uk/alri-hyperdrive-4-0-60-caps?utm_source=GoogleShopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping (http://www.bodybuildingwarehouse.co.uk/alri-hyperdrive-4-0-60-caps?utm_source=GoogleShopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping)
This supplement looks fine you might think. Yes it has an appetite suppressant in it, but not one that's banned.
Now go to the manufacturers website, and you would see that it contains oxilofrine:
http://alrindustries.com/products/hyperdrive-3-0-hyperdrive-4-0 (http://alrindustries.com/products/hyperdrive-3-0-hyperdrive-4-0)
So... it's an easy trap to fall into.
Tyson Gay is interesting for other reasons. He's pulled out of moscow. Yet: he's still asked for the B-sample to be tested, and not admitted his guilt. If he coughs to something then, then maybe he'll be worth the benefit of the doubt. But so far he's added 2-3 months to his doping ban - for what? He's going to contest whatever it is.
GC: I don't know what Froome is like as a bloke but as a racer he is pretty boring. What with the whole Wiggins thing and Skys generally weakened team I want Clenbutador to win. At least he knows how to take risks and race.
Froome will be on his own a lot during the mountains, can they take enough time off him before the TT? It should be more interesting than last year anyway.
Riding others off your wheel isn't tactical nous.
Though yes, maybe boring is unfair; the Dauphine was a great race.
He has a boring face though. There just isn't anything about Froome I can root for.
Are we having a fantasy league this year? I've a yellow jersey to defend :)
Strangely I find myself supporting Froome, and I can't entirely figure out why. When he's on form his climbing is incredible, and he's no slouch at TT / anything else. So I respect him as a rider, but he still just isn't that likeable.
Other than that, of course I'll be hoping for Cav and Yates to do well, and if Sagan pulls any wheelies I'll be psyched.
Is Millar not riding the tour then? Arse, I was wild hopes for an amazing last stage victory for him.
With Garmins decision to drop Millar, I've lost a lot of respect for Vaughters and his team, I figured he'd put honour and loyalty above results, but I guess not.
Are we having a fantasy league this year? I've a yellow jersey to defend :)
I'd be keen another fantasy league. We did the cyclingnews (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/fantasy-tour-is-go) one last year which was ok, want to do the same again or has anyone seen a better one?
It sounds as though they've made a few changes, though the website is down at the moment which isn't a great sign...
Sprinting wise, its hard to know where Kietel v Cav will go but I won't be surprised if there isn't a massive crash within 10km of Harrogate. In the past Cav has a few times screwed up the first sprint of the Tour but I'm hoping that he will be more prepared this year.You were pretty on the money. He wanted it too badly. Shame.
Bit gutted about cav yesterday, but today's stage more than made up for it! Go nibs!;D
Watched stage 1 at Buttertubs - got a great spot just up from where it was really packed. Not as dramatic as watching Froome and Quintana destroying Bertie last year on the Ventoux, but massively exciting seeing the peleton taking on our classic climbs, and blown away by the numbers of people.
(http://i.imgur.com/jB28GLal.jpg)
Had a great day at the foot of the Cote de Bradfield. Was a little sceptical before I went if I'm honest but the atmosphere, caravans, and the sight of the peloton pinning it in to the bend I was on the charge up the climb was incredible.
Had a great day at the foot of the Cote de Bradfield. Was a little sceptical before I went if I'm honest but the atmosphere, caravans, and the sight of the peloton pinning it in to the bend I was on the charge up the climb was incredible.
You can't have been far from me. :wave:
I thought it was amazing- as I said on the other thread, my girlfriend is the cycling fan and she was on cloud nine but I was surprised by how much fun I had.
When the motorbikes directly ahead of the first riders appeared it was absolutely crazy- part sporting event, part civil emergency- and the rush of excitement that greeted each pack of cyclists was electrifying. I'll post one or two of the pictures I took in a bit.
The fact we'd been staking out our piece of verge for 8 hours just seemed to make the 15 minutes of race even better- I can kind of understand why people flip out and run alongside them in their pants and stuff now. ;)
I seem to have agreed to go over to France to watch it next summer... :look:
I thought it was it just the footage I saw but it seems there are a lot of idiots making a nuisance of themselves (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jul/06/tour-de-france-2014-selfies-pain-arse-riders).I don't think it was too bad, they had that width issue on one of the stage one climbs when the peleton ground to a halt. The crash on Buttertubs had nothing to do with spectators (but did send one tumbling!) Put it this way, of 2.5million people watching, many of which were in a 'good mood' :icon_beerchug:, but only a handful took some silly risks, none of which caused any incidents. :2thumbsup:
Half way up the Cote de Bradfield. Mega :thumbsup:
Froome out, just climbed into the back of the second team car after a second crash before they'd even reached the cobbles. Shame they haven't got a second option as leader.
Feel sorry for Froome going out like this, but the Tour de France should be about more than who can maintain the highest VAM for longest, it should be about being able to handle a bike too!
Interesting interview with Dave BrailsfordThanks for this, a good listen.
http://audioboo.fm/boos/2311655-stage-4-dave-brailsford-opens-up (http://audioboo.fm/boos/2311655-stage-4-dave-brailsford-opens-up)
I think what Brailsford and sky have done is amazing+1
What is it about Froome that makes people not support him. Do all winners have to be "cool cats" like Wiggins.
I think what Brailsford and sky have done is amazing and get a bit pissed off with all the hate that seems focused at him due to him supposedly having no heart.
Anyone think of another team full of very efficient, professional, serious but ultimately boring and characterless members doing well in sport at the minute. Oh sorry we dont like them either do we.
You obviously don't watch the, much bigger on a world stage, event going on in Brazil. German footie team!!seven goals against Brazil wasn't boring, in fact most people on here were loving Germany beating Brazil. I was and will be hoping they beat Argentina on Sunday.
You obviously don't watch the, much bigger on a world stage, event going on in Brazil. German footie team!!seven goals against Brazil wasn't boring, in fact most people on here were loving Germany beating Brazil. I was and will be hoping they beat Argentina on Sunday.
I'd echo what Cowboyhat has said about Froome - he's essentially come out of nowhere, his first year with Sky he showed himself to be a very good climber, by the second year he's beating times on mountains set in Lance et al's pomp and also beating the world time trial champion in time trials. He's boring in person and seemed to have dropped a real clanger of a biography (which I haven't yet read). He's also shit at bike handling, as evidenced yesterday, which should be pretty unforgivable for a GC contender. I like cycling because you don't have to support a team because they are 'British'.
What Sky did when they started, taking the successful British Cycling developed riders from the track to the road was amazing, and they did a great job of bringing through many great riders. These days I think they are more comparable to Chelsea, Man U or City than the German team: they have essentially a blank cheque and have used this to build a team with super domestiques who could easily be GC contenders at other teams.
I guess this leaves Nibs as favourite.. though is this a bad thing that there is one clear leader/rider now?
Harsh. It's sounding like he crashed because his frame snapped! Rather than snapping as a result of the crash. Haven't found a clip yet to confirm. If it turns out that's is the case it's pretty unusual and a pretty poor ad for Specialized high end frames.It's now being reported he hit a rock or a pothole and crashed, destroyed his shoe in the crash.
I also read on Twitter that it might have been a spare bike coming off the roof of support car and landing in front of him.... bad luck if that's the case.
There were rumours that Contador’s bike frame had snapped, causing him to fall. It was also suggested that a bike had fallen off the team car and on to Contador. Both were denied by Saxo-Tinkoff. Once TV cameras had missed the crash, speculation was inevitably going to follow.
Later the Belgian rider Jurgen Van Den Broeck confirmed that Contador had crashed trying to overtake the peloton on the descent of the Petit Ballon, when he hit a pothole in the road at 65kph and flew over his handlebars.
It took time for the medical team to reach him and for his right knee to be wrapped. Time too, for his bike to be fixed and cleats altered. When Contador finally got moving he had lost four minutes on the peloton. Progress was interrupted twice more: to talk to his Saxo-Tinkoff sporting directeur Bijarne Riis, and then to speak to the medical wagon.
It was all to no avail. Contador kept going for another 20km but with 77km of the stage remaining he decided to abandon.
I feel sorry for Nibs, if he does go on to win it's always going to be a bit hollow with the two (on paper) favourites missing.
Do you think it was a hollow victory for Wiggins then? Contador banned, Schleck injured and Froome following team orders in 2012?
At least this year the main contenders made it to the start line.
Highlights said he crashed at 65kph and left a 100m skid mark on the Tarmac :sick:
Call me an old cynic but we seem to have a Yellow jersey holder who barely seems to get out of breath whilst riding everyone off his wheel. Where have I seen that before. :-\
Call me an old cynic but we seem to have a Yellow jersey holder who barely seems to get out of breath whilst riding everyone off his wheel. Where have I seen that before. :-\
taking drugs and cycling around france for three weeks sounds a great way of spending your summer
unless someone is caught they are clean.
Call me an old cynic but we seem to have a Yellow jersey holder who barely seems to get out of breath whilst riding everyone off his wheel. Where have I seen that before. :-\
Last year... ;) though to be fair Froome had a few moments where he seemed human - Nibs hasn't so far - maybe he's not been pushed enough. I'm sure someone somewhere is measuring his VO max blah blah and working out pro and against arguments...
Are other sports stratified to such an extent?
Not that I don't share others doubts, but let's be honest, nibs is riding away from the second tier really, the three people I'd expect to give him trouble aren't here. Anyone seriously surprised nibs is significantly better than, eg, bardet?
OK - so all this implies that there are only 3 or 4 people in the world in the 'elite' group ofroad cyclinggrand tour cycling - then the rest are just varying shades of domestique? non? Are other sports stratified to such an extent? In athletics for example is there such a top few and the rest are also rans (but also rans by a distance)...?
Its not that he's riding away from the so called second tier, its that he is doing it barely getting out of breath or breaking in to a sweat.
Yesterday he caught the second guy on the road then attacked so fast it made the other guy look like he was not moving. All on a gradient between 7% and 10% which they were on for 30 mins and not once did he appear to be breathing heavily.
It all looks like the Armstrong days.
Cycling weekly had an article pointing out there is a distinct lack of press questioning around drug use with Nibali compared to the 3 degree that Wiggins and Froome got.
The media coverage is very strange, however I think teams like Sky and Garmin etc, who have a very clear no doping stance take a lot of the flak sometimes...whereas is reality it should really be the teams who don't come out and make clear statements of intent against doping who should be questioned....Astana are a perfect example, along with Tinkov Saxo.
:agree: Tinkoff Saxo have had three stage wins this year without their team leader. Including Micheal Rogers who only last year failed a doping test for clenbuterol later to be cleared following an investigation where he claims he ate contaminated meat.
Excuse sound familiar?
Very interesting read....
http://sportsscientists.com/2014/07/the-physiology-at-the-front-of-the-tour/ (http://sportsscientists.com/2014/07/the-physiology-at-the-front-of-the-tour/)
Very interesting read....
http://sportsscientists.com/2014/07/the-physiology-at-the-front-of-the-tour/ (http://sportsscientists.com/2014/07/the-physiology-at-the-front-of-the-tour/)
Madness today! Porte and Froome crashed ibto the back of one of the motorbikes and froome left running up the hill - having had a chunk of time over Quintana at that point! See what happens!
Wout has been absolutely ridiculous.
"on another level" and TdF in the same sentence always give me pause for scepticism. How are the top guys comparing to the theoretical max human level these days? Any "superhuman" efforts?
"on another level" and TdF in the same sentence always give me pause for scepticism. How are the top guys comparing to the theoretical max human level these days? Any "superhuman" efforts?
Despite all advances in tech, training, nutrition, staying cool (these ice vests look like they’d be great for between summer bouldering attempts), etc. the fastest climbs were still some distance behind the ‘bad times’, so I have some hope.
"on another level" and TdF in the same sentence always give me pause for scepticism. How are the top guys comparing to the theoretical max human level these days? Any "superhuman" efforts?
"on another level" and TdF in the same sentence always give me pause for scepticism. How are the top guys comparing to the theoretical max human level these days? Any "superhuman" efforts?
Despite all advances in tech, training, nutrition, staying cool (these ice vests look like they’d be great for between summer bouldering attempts), etc. the fastest climbs were still some distance behind the ‘bad times’, so I have some hope.
I'm not a cyclist myself and really only follow Le Tour (occasionally also follow the other grand tours but it varies) but do listen to a couple of cycle podcasts each year while Le Tour is running. What Teesub said nicely explains my understanding of it also. By doing some simple napkin maths anyone can time sections of routes and figure out the watts / KG effort. Non of the figures this year seemed to raise any eyebrows from people in the know.
The really obvious phenomenon from the 'bad times' was when a rider would have a terrible day smash a couple blood bags for dinner (yum!) then come back the following day and solo an entire Alp / Pyrenees stage to victory. Nothing even close to that this year. Pog+Vin were really closely matched. Pog had one slightly bad day, got his tactics wrong chasing down Roglic without any help from his team and maybe didn't fuel well enough. Great sportsmanship though. Love that he rode off the front of the peloton today when Ineos briefly attacked just for the lolz and was beaming on the podium with the White jersey presentation.
"on another level" and TdF in the same sentence always give me pause for scepticism. How are the top guys comparing to the theoretical max human level these days? Any "superhuman" efforts?
I was listening to the Real Science of Sport podcast today. They've been cycling performance sceptics for years, but they're now saying current top (bike!) climbing performances are consistently near the upper limit of the plausible, but nowhere near Pantani-era fantasy land
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/cycling-special-the-science-of-cadence-van-der/id1461719225?i=1000557499846
Great edition of the Tour for me. Though Jumbo WERE pretty dominant, there was enough going on for it not to be a procession.
- Cycling individual times, power outputs etc don't look outrageous but the consistency looks very dubious. We now have GC riders out competing the specialists on stages where the specialists would previously have won. Being able to do this day after day on a grand tour looks suspicious.
They also looked at Pogacar's development as a young athlete pointing out some aspects where he has always been an outlier, possibly giving hope that all could be above board.
Apologies if any of this is from the episode you linked to, I haven't relistened to it.
Great edition of the Tour for me. Though Jumbo WERE pretty dominant, there was enough going on for it not to be a procession.
I did wonder how much Roglic's withdrawal was down to really being unable to continue, versus lack of motivation to continue in a team role as senior domestique
I did wonder how much Roglic's withdrawal was down to really being unable to continue, versus lack of motivation to continue in a team role as senior domestique
I thought he’d been found to have 2 fractured vertebrae since
As an honorary Dane I'm obviously now totally invested in Vingegaard ... but basically still clueless about the Tour. But he seems to be looking strong.
As an honorary Dane I'm obviously now totally invested in Vingegaard ... but basically still clueless about the Tour. But he seems to be looking strong.
Some prediction that.As an honorary Dane I'm obviously now totally invested in Vingegaard ... but basically still clueless about the Tour. But he seems to be looking strong.
Pogacar lost the tour yesterday. To crack so early in the event and before the more serious mountains, he surely can't come back from that.
Looking forward to seeing whether Vingegaard Vs Hindley will be interesting.
Some prediction that.
Pogacar lost the tour yesterday. To crack so early in the event and before the more serious mountains, he surely can't come back from that.
Looking forward to seeing whether Vingegaard Vs Hindley will be interesting.
Pogacar lost the tour yesterday. To crack so early in the event and before the more serious mountains, he surely can't come back from that.
No reading the thread on the subject till after the ITV highlights!
:chair:
"Pogacar lost the tour yesterday. "
I was thinking this might not age well ;)
:agree: this! don't click on any threads about subjects you don't want spoiling, whether it's the Tour, egg chasing of the climbing world cups.
Shaping up to be another classic between the top two, kinda weird having the Pyrenees in so early.
What’s todays prediction. Cav, Euan or Jasper."Pogacar lost the tour yesterday. "
I was thinking this might not age well ;)
Just caught up.
Well well well!
:lol:
What’s todays prediction. Cav, Euan or Jasper."Pogacar lost the tour yesterday. "
I was thinking this might not age well ;)
Just caught up.
Well well well!
:lol:
Electric gears :shit:
Electric gears :shit:
I've seen more trouble in the last 10 years with electric gears than I ever saw in the 70's/80's/90's.
This might have cost Cavendish the all-time record.
They use what they get paid to use. Bike manufacturers and equipment suppliers pay the the teams to use their stuff. That’s why you see rebadged wheels, but you can’t really rebadge a group setI've seen more trouble in the last 10 years with electric gears than I ever saw in the 70's/80's/90's.
This might have cost Cavendish the all-time record.
The same way a cable stretching at an inopportune moment could happen? Pinning it on the rear mech is also an assumption.
Let's face it, they wouldn't use electric over mechanical if that was the case.
1. The same way a cable stretching at an inopportune moment could happen? 2. Pinning it on the rear mech is also an assumption.1. Cables don't suddenly stretch, they do it gradually over a period of months or years, and it can be adjusted out.
They use what they get paid to use. Bike manufacturers and equipment suppliers pay the the teams to use their stuff. That’s why you see rebadged wheels, but you can’t really rebadge a group set
It shouldn't have ended that way 😭😭😭
A mechanical is a mechanical.I take your point that you can adjust either, but you have much closer sprocket spacings nowadays and more failure modes with electronic.
I broke one six weeks ago. It broke in the shifter after a hamfisted change when I was riding back from the scene of my wife's crash.Going off topic. Shimano 11 speed shifters are apparently are prone to fraying at the nipple. So the inner cable needs to be changed about once a year.
Anyhow, mechanicals are a shit way for a race to be decided, I'm sure we can agree on that!
TerribleHe’s already been offered the chance to postpone his retirement.
Maybe they can persuade him to postpone his retirement.
He was the fastest rider on the sprint yesterday.
I know I don't know what I'm talking about, but yesterday might turn out to have been decisive.Possibly one of the most crushing time trial victories in the history of the race given the fairly short length of the time trial.
I know I don't know what I'm talking about...
Possibly one of the most crushing time trial victories in the history of the race given the fairly short length of the time trial.
Excited for todays stage, wonder if Pog might go for a long range do or die attack up the Col de Loze. He has over 7 minutes to 3rd place (who is a UAE team mate as well) so can focus on purely attacking now as even if he blows up he is unlikely to drop from second place.
So if there is a new super performance enhancing drug. How come no one has heard of it and it appears that only one or possibly two teams are using it.
Being that they've just spent 3-4 days static location in very closely proximity to a 4800m high piece of land, might it have been possible to have done something weird to do with using altitude adaptation for a marginal gain? Along the lines of quickly (heli) get JV up high for a period of time that is just enough to give a benefit for the TT or the (high altitude) Queen stage?
Being that they've just spent 3-4 days static location in very closely proximity to a 4800m high piece of land, might it have been possible to have done something weird to do with using altitude adaptation for a marginal gain? Along the lines of quickly (heli) get JV up high for a period of time that is just enough to give a benefit for the TT or the (high altitude) Queen stage? Or just use an altitude tent? Seems unlikely though in the short periods of recovery between stages, even with a rest day..
This says (https://www.irunfar.com/high-altitude-training-and-racing): ''In a widely referenced 1982 study, Squires and Buskirk found a predictable reduction in VO2 max of approximately 8% for every 1,000 meters above 700 meters.''
I’d like to think that the current era of pro cycling is relatively clean, given the massive level of scrutiny the top riders now live with. In addition any doping would require involvement from the teams (or at the very least a very blind eye to be turned), and given the damage the sport suffered due to doping in the past I don’t thing there is the desire from teams for that to happen.
Cycling is always going to suffer from the shadow of drug use, mainly due to it’s past (once upon a time I thought Armstrong was clean, and it was just the French press who hated him). But also because of ongoing issues with the Therapeutic Use Exemption (TUE) system: it’s doctors employed by the team who issue TUE’s, a fairly obvious conflict of interests.
In addition if you wanted to design a sport in which to win by doping it would look very much like a cycling grand tour. Once you ignore the drama and romance whoever can consistently churn out the most watts per Kg over the 3 weeks is probably going to win. Most other sports are more dependent on skill, luck, equipment, and the like.
I’m a fan of pro cycling, despite its past, and as such I often quite aggrieved by the constant claims of doping. Compared to many sports it seems willing to proactively pursue and punish dopers, despite the reputation all damage that ensues: something that sports like athletics and football have little stomach for.
PS I suspect the worst ‘proper’ sport for doping is MMA/UFC, they may as well go full professional wrestling and say “as long as you don’t take the piss, and the fans don’t care, then it’s all good”.
If you're going to cheat do you not try and conceal the fact by not looking freakishly better than everyone else? Maybe puff and pant a bit? Say "ooooh, that was hard. Yes, Pog nearly had me there, ha ha". It seems a bit daft to go out and break all the models for VO2 max/W per Kg.
him mentioning that he thought his computer was broken with the power figures that he was putting out during the TT
If you're going to cheat do you not try and conceal the fact by not looking freakishly better than everyone else? Maybe puff and pant a bit? Say "ooooh, that was hard. Yes, Pog nearly had me there, ha ha". It seems a bit daft to go out and break all the models for VO2 max/W per Kg.
Easier said than done. A crash in a later stage could quickly eat in to any lead, and you'd feel a bit of a dunce if you lost it because you held back earlier on to make yourself look less dominant.
If you're going to cheat do you not try and conceal the fact by not looking freakishly better than everyone else? Maybe puff and pant a bit? Say "ooooh, that was hard. Yes, Pog nearly had me there, ha ha". It seems a bit daft to go out and break all the models for VO2 max/W per Kg.
Easier said than done. A crash in a later stage could quickly eat in to any lead, and you'd feel a bit of a dunce if you lost it because you held back earlier on to make yourself look less dominant.
That and he was clearly massively jacked up to give it everything. Regardless of whether there was any special sauce involved, I believe him when he said he had surprised himself by how fast he was.
PS I suspect the worst ‘proper’ sport for doping is MMA/UFC, they may as well go full professional wrestling and say “as long as you don’t take the piss, and the fans don’t care, then it’s all good”.
It's a good point. I also think the historical comparisons need to be taken with a large pinch of salt - the differences in training, selection pool, equipment etc. are vast. Like in similar sports, doping aside, you would expect major advances in performance over this sort of time period.
It's a good point. I also think the historical comparisons need to be taken with a large pinch of salt - the differences in training, selection pool, equipment etc. are vast. Like in similar sports, doping aside, you would expect major advances in performance over this sort of time period.
If you're going to cheat do you not try and conceal the fact by not looking freakishly better than everyone else? Maybe puff and pant a bit? Say "ooooh, that was hard. Yes, Pog nearly had me there, ha ha". It seems a bit daft to go out and break all the models for VO2 max/W per Kg.Exactly. That was what I was saying on Tuesday - " if you're going to dope, then at least make it subtle, don't take the piss"
It's a good point. I also think the historical comparisons need to be taken with a large pinch of salt - the differences in training, selection pool, equipment etc. are vast. Like in similar sports, doping aside, you would expect major advances in performance over this sort of time period.
Actually, no. There was a very good documentary a few years ago and it went into the gains made since the 60s in running. Unless the science has changed since then, or it was in accurate, they were basically stating that hanian performance in the 60s was already hitting physiological limits and when you accounted for improvement sin shoes, track etc. there had been surprisingly little chbage in human performance.
I think it's a little different in cycling, especially the tour as recovery is so important, but still. If it quacks like a duck...
One key moment for me was watching Daniel Friebe's interview with Tom Pidcock at the start of yesterday's stage .
What no one seems to have mentioned is JV’s bike handling. He was way superior on the descents probably putting 30 seconds in to TP on these alone never mind what he gained on the rest of the corners.
What no one seems to have mentioned is JV’s bike handling. He was way superior on the descents probably putting 30 seconds in to TP on these alone never mind what he gained on the rest of the corners.
Technique and levels of fatigue are linked. Maybe TP was more tired and making mistakes. JV energy levels seem surprisingly high ;)
One key moment for me was watching Daniel Friebe's interview with Tom Pidcock at the start of yesterday's stage .
Missed that but interesting, there was another recent interview in which Pidcock said he 'didn't understand' how in the Tour they can keep going full gas every single day. I also picked up, in a little feature ITV did about Egan Bernal, a comment from his coach about how the winning standard is now notably higher than when Bernal won in 2019 (and that EB would have to be better than he was then to compete).
If you suppose that Vingegaard is doping, so are Jumbo Visma. If Jumbo Visma are on it, so must UAE be. Then you look at the fact that not much separates the Yates brothers, riding for different teams. Rodriguez is Ineos, same as Pidcock. Where does it stop? (Perhaps I'm making a false assumption here that it would be a team-sanctioned rather than individual thing). Thibaut Pinot has probably been the rider most outspoken about 'two speeds in the peloton' from that 2021 L'Équipe interview, and he sits a little way outside the top 10. I guess it isn't necessarily a case of pure clean vs doping, but potentially degrees of usage? Degrees of compromise/risk? All very muddy.
Something happened during COVID, if you look at the pre COVID and post COVID times and power outputs. Some that are potentially naive have put it down to the athletes being able to have the first proper rest in their career... Others have pointed out that doping control was effectively suspended for 6 months and the riders could have, if they wanted to, taken any performance enhancing drugs they wanted provided they could get back to the levels on the passport by the time the regime resumed testing.
One key moment for me was watching Daniel Friebe's interview with Tom Pidcock at the start of yesterday's stage .
Missed that but interesting, there was another recent interview in which Pidcock said he 'didn't understand' how in the Tour they can keep going full gas every single day. I also picked up, in a little feature ITV did about Egan Bernal, a comment from his coach about how the winning standard is now notably higher than when Bernal won in 2019 (and that EB would have to be better than he was then to compete).
If you suppose that Vingegaard is doping, so are Jumbo Visma. If Jumbo Visma are on it, so must UAE be. Then you look at the fact that not much separates the Yates brothers, riding for different teams. Rodriguez is Ineos, same as Pidcock. Where does it stop? (Perhaps I'm making a false assumption here that it would be a team-sanctioned rather than individual thing). Thibaut Pinot has probably been the rider most outspoken about 'two speeds in the peloton' from that 2021 L'Équipe interview, and he sits a little way outside the top 10. I guess it isn't necessarily a case of pure clean vs doping, but potentially degrees of usage? Degrees of compromise/risk? All very muddy.
Something happened during COVID, if you look at the pre COVID and post COVID times and power outputs. Some that are potentially naive have put it down to the athletes being able to have the first proper rest in their career... Others have pointed out that doping control was effectively suspended for 6 months and the riders could have, if they wanted to, taken any performance enhancing drugs they wanted provided they could get back to the levels on the passport by the time the regime resumed testing.
Either hypothesis, the rest or taking PEDs, might explain a jump in performance immediately after Covid, but surely neither has any relevance now? Though I suppose that lay-off in testing might have provided freedom to experiment 'safely' with a simulated testing programme and what you could get away with?
Another musing on relative performance. There have been a few massive one-day climbing performances in this race, from riders like Kwiatkowski and Poels (neither of whom, from what I can gather, in the context of their careers, would be prime suspects for doping). But their times on the final climbs were impressively fast, and the big GC riders weren't that much faster. I don't know what this means - you could of course take the most cynical interpretation, but you could also see it as meaning that what significantly separates the big beasts from the rest is being able to do it day after day (however that can be explained). Though JV's TT is still an outlier.
Something happened during COVID, if you look at the pre COVID and post COVID times and power outputs. Some that are potentially naive have put it down to the athletes being able to have the first proper rest in their career... Others have pointed out that doping control was effectively suspended for 6 months and the riders could have, if they wanted to, taken any performance enhancing drugs they wanted provided they could get back to the levels on the passport by the time the regime resumed testing.
Either hypothesis, the rest or taking PEDs, might explain a jump in performance immediately after Covid, but surely neither has any relevance now? Though I suppose that lay-off in testing might have provided freedom to experiment 'safely' with a simulated testing programme and what you could get away with?
Another musing on relative performance. There have been a few massive one-day climbing performances in this race, from riders like Kwiatkowski and Poels (neither of whom, from what I can gather, in the context of their careers, would be prime suspects for doping). But their times on the final climbs were impressively fast, and the big GC riders weren't that much faster. I don't know what this means - you could of course take the most cynical interpretation, but you could also see it as meaning that what significantly separates the big beasts from the rest is being able to do it day after day (however that can be explained). Though JV's TT is still an outlier.
I’m not sure I’m sold on your interpretation of MK and WPs results. Kwiatkowski has always, always been a strong rider as has Poels been a very, very strong climber just hidden behind working for others. I don’t think there is anything suspect about their results when they’ve spent the last two weeks soft pedalling in the peloton. It serves as a fairly useless comparison. Take Asgreen yesterday. He could put in that outrageous, once in a tour effort because, AFAIK he’s been fairly anonymous all Tour.
With regards the two speeds in the peloton this could...... Alternatively UAE, Jumbo, Ineos and Quickstep are not part of the MPCC whereas FDJ are.
Pidcock hasn't been a GC contender in a grand tour before, who knows whether he's cut out for it.
Sky had lots of great stories about all their marginal gains but the steroids they gave Wiggins by gaming the TUE system probably made more of a difference.
Maybe all the top ten riders of the classics and the grand tours should be made to go on Oprahs show. Then we might get to know what’s going on ;)
Yes, this is the MPCC list, and you can see that most of the French teams plus Bora Hansgroer are on there. I think this explains why the French have had so little success in the big races recently ( but a great ride by the guy from AG2R on Wednesday - respect ! )
https://www.mpcc.fr/en/our-members/
Pidcock was 7th last year.
The point about Sky is part of the reason it's so odd to see Jumbo Visma so far ahead. Sky came into the scene and took a Formula 1 approach to the details, looking at everything, throwing out the old mid-20th-century dogmas, doing experiments on everything. There was a lot of low-hanging fruit back then. I don't believe their success was down to drugs, the transgressions were mostly minor and probably being doen by all teams at the time. The worst one was Wiggins taking Kenacort, that was very much NOT OK .
So my point is, in the post-Sky era, how to Jumbo Visma explain their sudden surge in performance ?
A lot of what I've read about advances recently is to do with extra carbohydrate per hour ( as Andy mentioned ) plus ketones ; but these are mainly improving endurance and recovery.
The worrying bit about what we've seen in the last week is that it's showing greater climbing speeds and hence W/kg. It looks just like a blood-boosting issue, like EPO was in the early 90's.
Perhaps it's Roxadustat ?
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/other/cycling-banned-blood-booster-a-challenge-for-anti-doping-authorities-expert/ar-AA1e8qmo?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=04f9e3afd7f24096972d7f376fac3b3e&ei=43
Pidcock didn't come 7th last year; he finished behind the likes of Madouas. He was up there to start with but then lost a lot of time in the mountains, a bit like this year. He was riding in support of others and was fetching bottles.
And so it came to pass.An article that says Marc Madiot and peanut had any hope of doing anything in tour suggest the author is clearly deluded. Pinot clearly has had more success raising goats than winning grand tours and Madiot refusal to embrace modern training techniques is why his team has not had much success in any of the GT’s. But then again it’s a French team and it’s all about the romance :hug:
I thought this was a particularly petty, unpleasant little article: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/jul/23/cycling-tour-de-france-winner-jonas-vingegaard-fails-to-win-over-public
In the meantime, looking forward to being at Rådhuspladsen for the celebrations on Wednesday afternoon.
I thought the Commisaires got it bang on with SD Worx; bad drafting behind the team car followed by pretty terrible driving deserved the time penalty and the ban from the remainder of the race for the driver.